The Cameo

[drestauro]

I'm looking to have a quality discussion about "The Cameo". Do you think this term will hold up into the future? Everyone's favorite example is Incredible Hulk 180. Wolverine gets a full panel showing his entire body, with claws. He then speaks declaring that he is "The Wolverine". This happens in story while Hulk and Wendigo are slugging it out. Assuming our hobby lasts another 50 years, if someone is seeking out the "First appearance", don't you think they would target the very first appearance of a character in story (advertisements are advertisements)? In this case 180. Granted 181 is a much cooler book to own as Hulk and Wolverine battle it out. And it's one of the best battle covers ever, but if someone is trying to collect the first appearance of the character wouldn't they want the introduction?

 

I think this thing would be much easier if it was classified as "First appearance", then have a special "First cover appearance", or maybe a "This book would have made a better first appearance". But cameo seems way overused. It should be used in cases when a Major character is shown, but not yet introduced. Constantine in Swamp Thing 25 for example, or Ultron in Avenger 54 (which CGC is still yet to recognize as a cameo on the label)

 

 

I know the popcorn eating icons will follow, but I'm really just interested in peoples opinions on the topic.

 

[Buzzetta]

Mary Jane...

 

Amazing Spider-man 25, 42, or 43?

[Bosco685]

It should be used in cases when a Major character is shown, but not yet introduced. Constantine in Swamp Thing 25 for example, or Ultron in Avenger 54 (which CGC is still yet to recognize as a cameo on the label)

 

This discussion requires pictures to enhance the discussion.

 

 

 

[Bosco685]

When Swamp Thing met Constantine

 

Two of my favorites from the Moore run.

[DiceX]

 

 

[Speedy-D]

A cameo isn't a brief first appearance, it's any ol' brief appearance.

[Bosco685]

More recent excitement in the market due to a movie rumor.

 

- X-Factor #5: Apocalypse 1st cameo in last few panels.

 

- X-Factor #6: 1st full appearance of Apocalypse.

 

I'm surprised Marvel Graphic Novel #17 (1985) hasn't become another "well, it references something related to Apocalypse, so it must be a 1st cameo".

 

It was later revealed that, although the Monolith is usually the one pulling the strings, another X-Men villain, Apocalypse, wanted to use the Living Monolith to drain the powers of other super-beings.

 

Although the character first appeared in X-Factor, the unnamed benefactor of the Living Monolith in Marvel Graphic Novel #17 (1985), has been identified as Apocalypse in disguise.

[oakman29]

I am of the mind set that a 1st appearance is a 1st Appearance.So in my opinion the Hulk 180-181 analogy Hulk 180 would be my choice for the 1st app.,but with that said.I would own both 1st app. and 1st full app.

[drestauro]

A cameo isn't a brief first appearance, it's any ol' brief appearance.

 

While that is the technical definition I take it has a different meeting in comics. If what you are saying is true there would be many more (cameo) labels. I've always taken it as a brief appearance, before the recognized first full appearance.

 

 

[Ken Aldred]

I am of the mind set that a 1st appearance is a 1st Appearance.So in my opinion the Hulk 180-181 analogy Hulk 180 would be my choice for the 1st app.,but with that said.I would own both 1st app. and 1st full app.

 

Hulk 180

 

Full figure Wolverine image, dialogue, seen to be interacting with The Hulk and Wendigo - a proper first appearance rather than a minor cameo. Deserves more respect.

[maloney414]

I'm looking to have a quality discussion about "The Cameo". Do you think this term will hold up into the future? Everyone's favorite example is Incredible Hulk 180. Wolverine gets a full panel showing his entire body, with claws. He then speaks declaring that he is "The Wolverine". This happens in story while Hulk and Wendigo are slugging it out. Assuming our hobby lasts another 50 years, if someone is seeking out the "First appearance", don't you think they would target the very first appearance of a character in story (advertisements are advertisements)? In this case 180. Granted 181 is a much cooler book to own as Hulk and Wolverine battle it out. And it's one of the best battle covers ever, but if someone is trying to collect the first appearance of the character wouldn't they want the introduction?

 

 

Everyone knows the deal with Wolverine. Not just hardcore fans, but casual fans as well. So it doesn't really matter what the CGC labels say. With other characters it may have a greater impact though.

 

I agree 180 is his 1st appearance, but 181 is the cooler book. I had to buy both. And you too are free to make up your own mind while building your personnal collection, but the market has decided 181 is the money book. Pure and simple.

 

 

 

 

[drestauro]

I'm looking to have a quality discussion about "The Cameo". Do you think this term will hold up into the future? Everyone's favorite example is Incredible Hulk 180. Wolverine gets a full panel showing his entire body, with claws. He then speaks declaring that he is "The Wolverine". This happens in story while Hulk and Wendigo are slugging it out. Assuming our hobby lasts another 50 years, if someone is seeking out the "First appearance", don't you think they would target the very first appearance of a character in story (advertisements are advertisements)? In this case 180. Granted 181 is a much cooler book to own as Hulk and Wolverine battle it out. And it's one of the best battle covers ever, but if someone is trying to collect the first appearance of the character wouldn't they want the introduction?

 

 

Everyone knows the deal with Wolverine. Not just hardcore fans, but casual fans as well. So it doesn't really matter what the CGC labels say. With other characters it may have a greater impact though.

 

I agree 180 is his 1st appearance, but 181 is the cooler book. I had to buy both. And you too are free to make up your own mind while building your personnal collection, but the market has decided 181 is the money book. Pure and simple.

 

 

 

 

I agree 181 is the cooler book, and 181 is the money book. However in time I think 180 has more upside. The percentage of gains 181 makes in the past are comparable to 180. So from an investment perspective you used to be able to get the same return on your purchase. However since 2010, the gains 180 makes has doubled the percentage of gains 181 has made. This means 180 is definitely the better investment book as of right now. If this trend continues I can definitely see them getting closer in value. As more investors (read speculators) come into bronze comics (as has been over the past few years) I think you will see this trend continue as the 180 cameo concept is a bit ridiculous to people outside the hobby. Another speculator boom could possibly flip the books 10-20 years down the road.

[MedicAR]

I'm not contributing here, I"m just making a cameo...

[ss5rmp]

I'm not contributing here, I"m just making a cameo...

[seanfingh]

A brand new, unknown character cannot make a cameo. A cameo is a when a known person or character appears in a situation that would not normally be expected. Like Mickey Mantle showing up on Bewitched. Or Bruno Mars on Modern Family for the younger crew.

[drestauro]

A brand new, unknown character cannot make a cameo. A cameo is a when a known person or character appears in a situation that would not normally be expected. Like Mickey Mantle showing up on Bewitched. Or Bruno Mars on Modern Family for the younger crew.

 

Tell that to CGC where it says "1st appearance in cameo on last page" on the IH 180 slabs.

[spidrvacc]

As a venom fan I always considered ASM 299 his first app. Its one panel and a cameo but it his first app not counting his hand and arms in web of spiderman 18. Also always considered Wolverines first app hulk 180.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

Wolvie's day in the sun is over.

 

[Hado]

Wolvie's day in the sun is over.

 

Bubble bust along side the walking dead.

[Mike's Rack]

I have maintained that the term "first appearence" is a red herring. This is usually technically true, but as some have pointed, the "money" book may not be the first appearence. The hobby has decide that first technical appearence is not necessarily the most important book. Boardie Mr. Ween is good at tracking down first appearances and it always makes for good discussion. The discussion is fun and can get quite heated but unless the market as a whole shifts, the money books are entrenched and arguing what is the definition of first appearence verses cameo verses ad is just nerdsterbation (my second favorite kind of 'sterbation).

 

Interestingly, I was looking through an older Overstreet and I noticed an add that had 180 priced at $7.50 and 181 at $1.25 or something like that, so I guess the market does shift over time. But sometimes it's just because someone gambled big on the wrong book.