X-Men #1 Value of white pages

[DBOi]

Hello all,

 

What is the community's general acceptance of the value of white pages for key issues such as X-Men #1.

 

Just using the OSPG as a reference what is the % increase for white pages?

I am currently looking at low grades with the following data (Filtered out the extremely inflated prices).

 

X-Men # 1 CGC 4.0 (OW) - $1950

X-Men # 1 CGC 3.0 (W) - $2000

 

Is a 3.0 in white pages worth a 4.0 without white pages assuming both have similar eye appeal and centering.

 

Thoughts and comments are appreciated

 

Thanks,

[Speedy-D]

I'm sure it's impossible to find an exact percentage. Any comic in any grade is going to sell for some range of prices (meaning, a CGC 3.0 does not go for $2K exactly, it goes for $1.75K - $2.25K-ish). Factors such as page quality will affect where in that range a particular copy falls, all else being equal. If a comic is extremely rare with a given characteristic (like, there are only two WP copies on the census), that affect will probably be more pronounced.

 

When you add in the fact that the market is not set up to have every copy competing against every other copy at the same time, all factors become much vaguer. I get the notion in my head that I want an X-Men 1 today, and buy one in a couple weeks ... I'm limited to the copies available at that time.

[*Bronze age fan*]

 

 

[/img]

[DBOi]

I'm sure it's impossible to find an exact percentage. Any comic in any grade is going to sell for some range of prices (meaning, a CGC 3.0 does not go for $2K exactly, it goes for $1.75K - $2.25K-ish). Factors such as page quality will affect where in that range a particular copy falls, all else being equal. If a comic is extremely rare with a given characteristic (like, there are only two WP copies on the census), that affect will probably be more pronounced.

 

When you add in the fact that the market is not set up to have every copy competing against every other copy at the same time, all factors become much vaguer. I get the notion in my head that I want an X-Men 1 today, and buy one in a couple weeks ... I'm limited to the copies available at that time.

 

I like how you articulated the point that I am constrained by what's currently available on the market. This always makes collecting difficult because in the past I've "waited" only to be disappointment and it ends up lower my standard; patience is a virtue but might result in missed opportunities.

 

The concept of a range is quite useful, I guess my inexperience has put too much weight on the CGC grading.

 

Thank you for the informative reply

[Speedy-D]

I'm sure it's impossible to find an exact percentage. Any comic in any grade is going to sell for some range of prices (meaning, a CGC 3.0 does not go for $2K exactly, it goes for $1.75K - $2.25K-ish). Factors such as page quality will affect where in that range a particular copy falls, all else being equal. If a comic is extremely rare with a given characteristic (like, there are only two WP copies on the census), that affect will probably be more pronounced.

 

When you add in the fact that the market is not set up to have every copy competing against every other copy at the same time, all factors become much vaguer. I get the notion in my head that I want an X-Men 1 today, and buy one in a couple weeks ... I'm limited to the copies available at that time.

 

I like how you articulated the point that I am constrained by what's currently available on the market. This always makes collecting difficult because in the past I've "waited" only to be disappointment and it ends up lower my standard; patience is a virtue but might result in missed opportunities.

 

The concept of a range is quite useful, I guess my inexperience has put too much weight on the CGC grading.

 

Thank you for the informative reply

Yep, it's that point when patience's virtue becomes patience's virue.

 

[BarryAllen]

This has been a topic of a couple of threads and the bottom line is that some people value PQ and some do not. In the same instance that some people will pay a premium for it and some will not.

 

Generally speaking, a low grade book with White pages does not garner a large increase versus one with Off-White or worse pages. Certainly typically not enough to kick it up a whole grade in value. Realistically as long as the pages are CR/OW or better, collectors will buy at around the same rate. This dynamic changes slightly when you get into truly epic books like Action 1 or Tec 27 (both DC) and especially in very high grades like 9.0 or better. Or if you find a collector that ONLY buys OW or White pages (many exist).

 

On a side note, in Silver age books, Marvel white pages are less rare than DC. Using the posted copy - a lower grade copy of X-men 1 (CGC 3.5) with White Pages is not necessarily "rare." There are 468 in the census and mostly likely more in people's private collections waiting to be graded (or not). The GPA census shows recent sales in 2013 on CGC 3.5 books ranging from $1,525 to $2,125 (90 day value around $1,825). In this instance, asking on the higher end due to PQ would not be unreasonable, but that doesn't mean someone won't want to pay on the lower end.

 

All that being said, anyone can charge whatever they want for a book and sometimes you can find the right person who will pay what is asked. This is a little easier with Key books like X-men 1.

 

Side note - in any given month there are usually multiple copies of X-men 1 for sale all over the net and many in low grade. Unless there is a boom in pricing, it would do you well to wait for the one you want at a price you are comfortable with (within reason).

 

 

Not sure if you are buying or selling, good luck either way!

 

[DBOi]

This has been a topic of a couple of threads and the bottom line is that some people value PQ and some do not. In the same instance that some people will pay a premium for it and some will not.

 

Generally speaking, a low grade book with White pages does not garner a large increase versus one with Off-White or worse pages. Certainly typically not enough to kick it up a whole grade in value. Realistically as long as the pages are CR/OW or better, collectors will buy at around the same rate. This dynamic changes slightly when you get into truly epic books like Action 1 or Tec 27 (both DC) and especially in very high grades like 9.0 or better. Or if you find a collector that ONLY buys OW or White pages (many exist).

 

On a side note, in Silver age books, Marvel white pages are less rare than DC. Using the posted copy - a lower grade copy of X-men 1 (CGC 3.5) with White Pages is not necessarily "rare." There are 468 in the census and mostly likely more in people's private collections waiting to be graded (or not). The GPA census shows recent sales in 2013 on CGC 3.5 books ranging from $1,525 to $2,125 (90 day value around $1,825). In this instance, asking on the higher end due to PQ would not be unreasonable, but that doesn't mean someone won't want to pay on the lower end.

 

All that being said, anyone can charge whatever they want for a book and sometimes you can find the right person who will pay what is asked. This is a little easier with Key books like X-men 1.

 

Side note - in any given month there are usually multiple copies of X-men 1 for sale all over the net and many in low grade. Unless there is a boom in pricing, it would do you well to wait for the one you want at a price you are comfortable with (within reason).

 

 

Not sure if you are buying or selling, good luck either way!

 

Thank you, another sagacious individual/response.

 

What really confuses a new comer like me is Page Quality, even within white pages there seems to be a wide range. Using X-Men #1 as an example, in the 7.0+ range the OW/OWW/W all have nice bright vibrant colors whereas in the lower range, the OFF White --> Whites all looks about the same (light to dark degrees of cream) with various degrees of color fade.

 

As an internet buyer I can probably be grouped into the tech spec guys;

I like the idea of nice specs which as white pages, 9.8 etc... but in reality I couldn't tell the difference between 7.0 and 9.0; being honest here.

 

For a collector (Not Investor) like myself; If I read between the lines correctly the advise here is: Don't read too much into the grade/PQ, patience and take the time to purchase a quality comic.

 

Thanks for the guidance.

[Speedy-D]

PQ is one of the least respected parts of the CGC grade. Meaning that I hear more people critical of CGC's PQ than most other aspets of the grade.

 

Now, if you really can't tell the difference between a 7.0 and 9.0, you gotta step back a bit. Buying an X-Men 1 is a dangerous proposition if you're that green. But I suspect you're not. Now, the difference between an 8.5 and a 9.0, that's a different matter.

[BarryAllen]

PQ is one of the least respected parts of the CGC grade. Meaning that I hear more people critical of CGC's PQ than most other aspets of the grade.

 

Now, if you really can't tell the difference between a 7.0 and 9.0, you gotta step back a bit. Buying an X-Men 1 is a dangerous proposition if you're that green. But I suspect you're not. Now, the difference between an 8.5 and a 9.0, that's a different matter.

 

PQ and the CGC is a confusing and frustrating proposition.

 

Generally speaking, my advice would be to try to collect Off-White to White pages, but don't necessarily turn down Cream to Off-White in a key book you need or get a great price. If you have no plans to remove the book from it's case, PQ is not necessarily the most important thing in the world (versus color presentation, cover vs back cover damage, writing or not, etc).

 

As far as the grading goes, there is a large difference between a 7.0 and a 9.0. I recommend investing some time in reading about grading and practicing. There is a ton of information (with pictures) on the web and a number of books. It isn't as tough as people will say it is. Only specific advice I would give you is when in doubt be conservative and you will do fine. Bottom-line, solid grading skills will serve you well as you continue to evaluate opportunities and collect.

[Hado]

Come hang out in the PGM section here

 

While grading from a scan isn't exact, you can learn what things to look for and what not.

 

Plus the guys are nice as all get out when helping newer graders along. (Thumbs u

[BarryAllen]

Come hang out in the PGM section here

 

While grading from a scan isn't exact, you can learn what things to look for and what not.

 

Plus the guys are nice as all get out when helping newer graders along. (Thumbs u

 

(thumbs u

[Spiderphill]

Depends, eye appeal > PQ IMO. There's many PQ snobs though. I prefer OW/W and I've had books go from C/OW to OW/W on resubs. So really, it's all luck with PQ.

[Primetime]

Some folks are label chasers and obsessed with grade numbers or "white" pages. Those folks will pay stronger. The other factors considered is eye appeal of a book. I will pay stronger money for a copy with ow pages and brighter colors and no chipping than a copy with the same grade but has white pages and lesser high appeal (structurally same grade but has chipping and less bright). Seasoned collectors know that there are plenty of Xmen 1s out there so depends on your price point and pet peeves for defects. The PQ on CGC labels are not always consistent anyways but for most they will pay for what the label says and not look at the book itself

[Primetime]

I'll also add that pre 1960 SA DC books are much more difficult to find with ow or better pages so premiums are often paid for those. Showcase 22 (oct 1959) prime example---a lot of cr/ow PQs but much tougher in ow or better.

 

For Marvels, AF15 tends to be tougher than other keys to at least get the white page designation from CGC. Hulk 1s and FF1 are slightly more commonly found with the white page label than AF15s. This could be due to CGC pq inconsistency. Spideys are very commonly found with excellent pQ designation--I see lots of white page ASM 2s for example.

[DBOi]

PQ is one of the least respected parts of the CGC grade. Meaning that I hear more people critical of CGC's PQ than most other aspets of the grade.

 

Now, if you really can't tell the difference between a 7.0 and 9.0, you gotta step back a bit. Buying an X-Men 1 is a dangerous proposition if you're that green. But I suspect you're not. Now, the difference between an 8.5 and a 9.0, that's a different matter.

 

Good point!

I don't buy raws for that exact reason, a shady local comic book guy would see me walking from miles away. The point I was trying to make was that since these books are CGC encapsulated, I can only judge by cover/backcover so there are occasions where a 7.0 and up to 9.0 look the same. Again, the devils in the details and these green eyes can't catch them yet.

 

I shall join you folks in the spare me a grade section and try to pick up a thing or two.

[Bomber-Bob]

I feel that the Page Quality is the best indicator of the overall preservation and freshness of a comic book. Books that have White Pages tend to have brighter cover colors and better eye appeal. I believe a book from 1965 or earlier with White Pages deserves a premium. Later than that, not so much = not as rare.

[Hado]

The PGM, teach you we will.

 

Learn more myself...must I

 

[DBOi]

What about writing on book covers?

I know that date stamps are widely accepted for GA and early silvers but what about marks such as random letters/numbers i.e. 'P' or '123'?

[BarryAllen]

I recommend reading a bit on grading online or get the Overstreet Grading Guide (expensive...). Writing is addressed fairly well within certain grades, particularly when it is the name of the original owner or a signature (duh).

 

Some collectors love the writing or index numbers, as they feel they add to the experience of collecting. Others hate it.

 

Personally, writing brings a book down in my opinion in desirability (not necessarily in grade). However, if the price is write and the cover is overall good for the grade, I will not exclude a book for purchase because little Timmy wrote his name on it 50 years ago.

 

Like most things in comic collecting, the only opinion that really counts is yours.