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TMNT 1 (1984 - first print): future pricing and speculation

Started by BarryAllen,

134 posts in this topic

rjpb

rjpb

Posted
Posted

I'm too old to have been swept up in the pop culture craze this title inspired among kids in the late 80s, and passed on it when I first saw it at a comic store as I thought it to be juvenile and amateur in execution. Don't know if I actually saw a first printing, though. The only Turtle books I've ever purchased were ones with Mark Martin artwork in them, but all that aside, I have to agree that this book is THE key to own for a certain generation, and the enduring popularity of the characters would indicate more solid investment potential than most books from the last 50 years.

 

Strange Tales 110 will return to its status as a forgotten key, Marvel Premier 4 & 7 to the bargain box and New Mutants 98 used for ballast before TMNT 1 loses it's appeal to collectors.

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valiantman

valiantman

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As far as being able to detect if it's not counterfeit: any capable artist could mimic a signature. You'd need to be a forensic expert with signatures to be able to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that the signature is indeed real.

 

Sure... someone's got a $2 book, so they scribble the author's/artist's name on the cover and try to sell it for $10.

I can see that.

 

But if the fake signature LOWERS the value, no one would do it.

 

"Hey guys! See this $3,000 comic? Watch me write "Kevin Eastman" on it and sell it for $1,500 as a green label!"

 

Who would do that?

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accessndx

accessndx

Posted
Posted
As far as being able to detect if it's not counterfeit: any capable artist could mimic a signature. You'd need to be a forensic expert with signatures to be able to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that the signature is indeed real.

 

Sure... someone's got a $2 book, so they scribble the author's/artist's name on the cover and try to sell it for $10.

I can see that.

 

But if the fake signature LOWERS the value, no one would do it.

 

"Hey guys! See this $3,000 comic? Watch me write "Kevin Eastman" on it and sell it for $1,500 as a green label!"

 

Who would do that?

 

You're right, it absolutely doesn't make sense why someone would do it. That said however is why the CGC won't give it a yellow label. No tickie no shirt.

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Iceman399

Iceman399

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Posted
As far as being able to detect if it's not counterfeit: any capable artist could mimic a signature. You'd need to be a forensic expert with signatures to be able to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that the signature is indeed real.

 

Sure... someone's got a $2 book, so they scribble the author's/artist's name on the cover and try to sell it for $10.

I can see that.

 

But if the fake signature LOWERS the value, no one would do it.

 

"Hey guys! See this $3,000 comic? Watch me write "Kevin Eastman" on it and sell it for $1,500 as a green label!"

 

Who would do that?

 

You're right, it absolutely doesn't make sense why someone would do it. That said however is why the CGC won't give it a yellow label. No tickie no shirt.

 

Because they can't authenticate it. If they can't authenticate it then they are sticking their neck out, which in turn would encourage individuals to fake signatures.

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USArmyParatrooper

USArmyParatrooper

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Are you 100% sure that getting signed on the inside vs. the outside has any impact on the type of label you get? The reason a grade is 'qualified' is because it wasn't witnessed by the CGC. As far as being able to detect if it's not counterfeit: any capable artist could mimic a signature. You'd need to be a forensic expert with signatures to be able to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that the signature is indeed real.

As far as I know anything signed (including on the inside) not in the presence of the CGC before or after it's formation garnishes a qualified grade.

There are a ton of modern comics that have been signed this way that always end up getting the green label. I haven't ever seen an exception.

 

Could someone demonstrate a "blue label" here in this thread that says "signed on the inside" by whomever? A yellow label that states "signed on the inside" would have to be witnessed by the CGC.

 

Sure, mine.

 

NTLABEL.jpg

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mschmidt

mschmidt

Posted
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Cool, hadn't seen that. Disregard my earlier speculation as I've not seen that before. Apparently under some circumstances it's ok. :)

If that's the case however, how come they don't give it a yellow label?

If a book isn't witnessed, it doesn't get a yellow label.

 

Books with unverified interior signatures get a blue label by default, with the signature treated as a grade-affecting defect. It's pretty rare to see a book in a Qualified label slab due to an unverified interior sig seeing that you'd have to specifically request this.

 

 

I read thru that link. Eye opening on the subject, but there was concern about the signature on the interior counting as a "defect" towards the universal grade. Any commentary about that? Is that true, not true? What's the consensus. Obviously the books you've shown are a bit older and have other accumulated defects affecting the grade. How much does the internal signature figure into that grade or does it not at all?

 

I don't think it effects it at all. Unless of course the signature itself is too hard and damages the internal pages.

 

This came up in a previous discussion, and I saved the following image to illustrate my point.

 

This isn't my book, but it's a great example. Graders notes on the label say "1 name written on 2nd page & 2 names written on 3rd page in pen."

 

An unverified signature on the interior does affect the grade - but minimally so. I had a squarebound book that was an easy 9.9 - it came back a 9.8 due to a signature on the inside front cover.

 

Here's Gemma's response when this question was posed previously:

 

It would not matter who had signed the book, but signatures on the first page are nominally factored into the grade so they can prevent the book from getting the top grade. Therefore if more signatures are present, or if the signature(s) are large in size, they will affect the book's grade more.
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Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted
Are you 100% sure that getting signed on the inside vs. the outside has any impact on the type of label you get? The reason a grade is 'qualified' is because it wasn't witnessed by the CGC. As far as being able to detect if it's not counterfeit: any capable artist could mimic a signature. You'd need to be a forensic expert with signatures to be able to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that the signature is indeed real.

As far as I know anything signed (including on the inside) not in the presence of the CGC before or after it's formation garnishes a qualified grade.

There are a ton of modern comics that have been signed this way that always end up getting the green label. I haven't ever seen an exception.

 

Could someone demonstrate a "blue label" here in this thread that says "signed on the inside" by whomever? A yellow label that states "signed on the inside" would have to be witnessed by the CGC.

 

Sure, mine.

 

NTLABEL.jpg

 

kudos, sir!

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

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Posted
I'm too old to have been swept up in the pop culture craze this title inspired among kids in the late 80s, and passed on it when I first saw it at a comic store as I thought it to be juvenile and amateur in execution. Don't know if I actually saw a first printing, though. The only Turtle books I've ever purchased were ones with Mark Martin artwork in them, but all that aside, I have to agree that this book is THE key to own for a certain generation, and the enduring popularity of the characters would indicate more solid investment potential than most books from the last 50 years.

 

Strange Tales 110 will return to its status as a forgotten key, Marvel Premier 4 & 7 to the bargain box and New Mutants 98 used for ballast before TMNT 1 loses it's appeal to collectors.

 

:applause:

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valiantman

valiantman

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Posted
An unverified signature on the interior does affect the grade - but minimally so. I had a squarebound book that was an easy 9.9 - it came back a 9.8 due to a signature on the inside front cover.

Interesting...

I guess this would have been a 9.9, then... hm

CGC98Albedo0_2nd_full.jpg

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PeasOfCrap

PeasOfCrap

Posted
Posted
An unverified signature on the interior does affect the grade - but minimally so. I had a squarebound book that was an easy 9.9 - it came back a 9.8 due to a signature on the inside front cover.

Interesting...

I guess this would have been a 9.9, then... hm

CGC98Albedo0_2nd_full.jpg

 

No doubt! :sorry:

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Beige

Beige

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All I know is that I want one.

Any 1st print at any grade will be commanding stratospheric prices by the end of the decade.

Simply the most undervalued key out there, regardless of period.

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mikeggg

mikeggg

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Posted

I think that if you really want one it is one of the hardest books to find. I think there is such a difference in prices and is becoming harder to find a "deal" anymore that it made it worth it going for a higher grade just because there is less competition. I think that a nice vf copy is not going to be out of line at $3,500 in the near future.

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