TMNT 1 (1984 - first print): future pricing and speculation

[BarryAllen]

And out of curiosity: who's busting out counterfeits? Is it a Chinese knockoff or is someone pumping these out of their basement?

 

Joking aside, my guess it is a small group (or couple of groups) with comic restoration expertise. From what I can tell, they take 2nd prints (and in rare cases 3rd prints) and bleach/color touch where necessary. Some are very convincing, probably to the point that there are a few CGC counterfeits passing for first prints living in people's collections.

 

CGC has gotten VERY good at finding these, but for awhile they were a problem.

 

Forgery is such a sad fact of any type of collecting.

 

If you know what to look for you can tell the difference between 1st, 2nd and 3rd prints from the cover alone.

 

1st and 2nd are extremely similar, 3rd is different.

 

So yes, as long as the book has not been altered...which is the problem with these counterfeit copies.

 

Most of them have been altered to look like 1st prints.

[USArmyParatrooper]

And out of curiosity: who's busting out counterfeits? Is it a Chinese knockoff or is someone pumping these out of their basement?

 

Joking aside, my guess it is a small group (or couple of groups) with comic restoration expertise. From what I can tell, they take 2nd prints (and in rare cases 3rd prints) and bleach/color touch where necessary. Some are very convincing, probably to the point that there are a few CGC counterfeits passing for first prints living in people's collections.

 

CGC has gotten VERY good at finding these, but for awhile they were a problem.

 

Forgery is such a sad fact of any type of collecting.

 

If you know what to look for you can tell the difference between 1st, 2nd and 3rd prints from the cover alone.

 

1st and 2nd are extremely similar, 3rd is different.

 

So yes, as long as the book has not been altered...which is the problem with these counterfeit copies.

 

Most of them have been altered to look like 1st prints.

 

Similar, but different. I started a thread a while back on the topic and someone (I forget who) amazingly discovered a tiny difference. It is literally a dot!

 

Post just the cover of a 1st and 2nd print, and I'll tell you which is which

[DeadpoolJr.]

And out of curiosity: who's busting out counterfeits? Is it a Chinese knockoff or is someone pumping these out of their basement?

 

Joking aside, my guess it is a small group (or couple of groups) with comic restoration expertise. From what I can tell, they take 2nd prints (and in rare cases 3rd prints) and bleach/color touch where necessary. Some are very convincing, probably to the point that there are a few CGC counterfeits passing for first prints living in people's collections.

 

CGC has gotten VERY good at finding these, but for awhile they were a problem.

 

Forgery is such a sad fact of any type of collecting.

 

If you know what to look for you can tell the difference between 1st, 2nd and 3rd prints from the cover alone.

 

1st and 2nd are extremely similar, 3rd is different.

 

So yes, as long as the book has not been altered...which is the problem with these counterfeit copies.

 

Most of them have been altered to look like 1st prints.

 

Similar, but different. I started a thread a while back on the topic and someone (I forget who) amazingly discovered a tiny difference. It is literally a dot!

 

Post just the cover of a 1st and 2nd print, and I'll tell you which is which

Yea i remember that it was the the second print had a small dot by the top edge of the building that was above the second turtle from the left. It was discovered by Peter Palmer, and DiceX.

[Cyclops]

Is the dot black, white or red? Can't find the thing.

[maloney414]

Is the dot black, white or red? Can't find the thing.

 

It's black and very small. You have to know what you're looking for to spot it.

 

Here is a close up picture with it circled. (thumbs u

 

[maloney414]

And out of curiosity: who's busting out counterfeits? Is it a Chinese knockoff or is someone pumping these out of their basement?

 

Joking aside, my guess it is a small group (or couple of groups) with comic restoration expertise. From what I can tell, they take 2nd prints (and in rare cases 3rd prints) and bleach/color touch where necessary. Some are very convincing, probably to the point that there are a few CGC counterfeits passing for first prints living in people's collections.

 

CGC has gotten VERY good at finding these, but for awhile they were a problem.

 

Forgery is such a sad fact of any type of collecting.

 

If you know what to look for you can tell the difference between 1st, 2nd and 3rd prints from the cover alone.

 

1st and 2nd are extremely similar, 3rd is different.

 

So yes, as long as the book has not been altered...which is the problem with these counterfeit copies.

 

Most of them have been altered to look like 1st prints.

 

Similar, but different. I started a thread a while back on the topic and someone (I forget who) amazingly discovered a tiny difference. It is literally a dot!

 

Post just the cover of a 1st and 2nd print, and I'll tell you which is which

Yea i remember that it was the the second print had a small dot by the top edge of the building that was above the second turtle from the left. It was discovered by Peter Palmer, and DiceX.

 

 

Great discussion guys! (thumbs u

 

It's harder to spot a counterfeit copy though. You have to know several details about the book and subsequent printings to spot them. Here is some more specifics about each of the 1st three printings that I'm aware of.

 

1st Printing:

 

- Cover is red

- Ad inside back cover is for Gobbledygook

- Address inside of front cover is Dover NH

- No extra blood in 2nd “T” in turtles on cover

- No black dot above building above Raphael

- Doesn’t say 1st, 2nd or 3rd printing inside front cover

 

 

2nd Printing:

 

- Cover is red

- Ad inside back cover is for t-shirts

- Tiny black dot above right corner of building above Raphael (picture below)

- Says 2nd printing inside front cover

- Address inside front cover is Dover NH

- 2nd prints were wider than 1st prints, so there is usually a gap in the 2 page splash image along the spine.

 

Black dot above Raphael:

 

Gap on splash page:

 

3rd Printing:

 

- Cover is pinkish

- Ad inside back cover is for t-shirts

- Extra blood in 2nd “T” in turtles on cover (picture below)

- Book was colored/grey tones/shaded darker (see Raphael page below)

- No black dot above building above Raphael

- Says 3rd printing inside front cover

- Address inside front cover is Sharon, CT

 

Extra blood in 2nd "T"

 

 

Width measurement ranges:

1st print - 7 1/2" to 7 9/16"

 

2nd print - 7 9/16" to 7 3/4"

 

3rd print - 7 3/8"

 

 

Counterfeit Copies:

 

The first thing to check are the details mentioned above. For example, if someone takes a 2nd print and bleaches the inside to remove the "2nd Printing" the book will still have the "dot on the cover" and the T-Shirt Ad on the inside back cover. Those would be red flags to check. (thumbs u

 

Another thing I've seen done is people take a 3rd printing and photoshop a 1st print cover to print. Then wrap the fake 1st print cover around a 3rd print book. We spotted one here on the boards recently.

 

However, a 3rd print is slightly smaller, so they had to trim their 1st print fake cover to fit the 3rd print interior. The Gobbledygook ad and indicia were cut wrong.

 

Indicia shouldn't be cut off at the bottom this way:

 

The right corner of the Gobbledygook #2 shouldn't be cut off either:

 

However, the owner thought it might have just been "trimmed" but when I asked him about the grey tones/shading it became obvious it was a completely fake cover wrapped around a 3rd print interior.

 

Here is the difference in colors/grey tones. The easiest page to see the difference is the Raphael splash page. 1st/2nd print on the left, 3rd print on the right:

 

Another famous Counterfeit is the "White Stripe" counterfeit. There were a lot of these made so the quality of the books is much sharper and well done. The "tells" for those is the blood is off on the "S" in turtles creating a horizontal "white stripe" and there is a "white stripe" down the right side of the image. Apparently, during the creation of the cover, the red printing was slightly off creating the gaps.

 

 

If anybody else knows more details about the differences or specific counterfeits they've seen, please share!! I think it's great to share this info so other boardie's buying TMNT #1's can make informed decisions. (thumbs u

 

 

[Bronty]

Wow , great info!

[accessndx]

Yep...very concise and detailed account of the prints as well as counterfeits....K+ brotha!!! :thumbsup:

[BarryAllen]

 

 

[maloney414]

Thanks! Hope the info is helpful. (thumbs u

[toitle]

I imagine a Mad Max world where people are stabbing each other for Gasoline, Water, Off Road Tires, and copies of TMNT #1.

 

Something I never realized, until Toitle pointed it out, is that the Turtles are just over 20 years older that Spiderman.

 

20 years is not a long time.

[Cyclops]

Is the dot black, white or red? Can't find the thing.

 

It's black and very small. You have to know what you're looking for to spot it.

 

Here is a close up picture with it circled. (thumbs u

 

 

Wow, you learn something new every day. Thanks for your efforts man (thumbs u

[DeadpoolJr.]

Thanks! Hope the info is helpful. (thumbs u

 

It is thank you so much for sharing this.

[Ryan.]

Great discussion guys! (thumbs u

 

Didn't want to repost the whole thing but awesome info. I think I'm going to pull out my 3 printings and do some comparing.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Great discussion guys! (thumbs u

 

Didn't want to repost the whole thing but awesome info. I think I'm going to pull out my 3 printings and do some comparing.

 

Third print is easy. The blood on the sword.

[BarryAllen]

I think this was a STEAL!

 

TMNT 1, 2 & 3 - First Prints

 

 

Hopefully it was a boardie!

[maloney414]

I think this was a STEAL!

 

TMNT 1, 2 & 3 - First Prints

 

 

Hopefully it was a boardie!

 

+1

 

It was a great price.

 

GPA for the #1 alone is $3,515 (90 day avg) with a trend going up $3,995 (last sale) (thumbs u

 

For the $3,500 the buyer got the #1 plus a #2 CGC 9.8, #3 CGC 9.2, and Raphael CGC 9.2. About $600-$700 worth of extras.

[mikeggg]

The price was 4,000 then was dropped and sold within day If I remember. I bought my 9.2 for about the same price and thought to myself how good of a deal it was.

[comedian]

Hey guys. I am thinking of buying a copy of TMNT 1, and I am not really sure what to pay. I have GPA, but I guess I just want some opinions on price trends going on right now. I am planning on picking up a CGC 7.5 for $2000, and would like to hear what you guys think.

[accessndx]

Hey guys. I am thinking of buying a copy of TMNT 1, and I am not really sure what to pay. I have GPA, but I guess I just want some opinions on price trends going on right now. I am planning on picking up a CGC 7.5 for $2000, and would like to hear what you guys think.

 

The 24 month graph on that grade demonstrates an upward trend. That info. coupled with the imminent release of a new TMNT movie and the huge franchise deal Nickelodeon cut for merchandising means big exposure and an insurgence of new fans to the scene. Expect $2000 to look like a fairly extreme deal within a relatively short period of time. If you can grab one at that price point I'd do so without hesitation.