Pretend for a moment....

[supapimp]

Peter Parkers mention of Doctor Connors lead me to believe the Lizard would make his debut.

 

aahhhh, but yet they mentioned eddie brock too in the movie, does that mean he will appear this time?

[comicwiz]

I forgot to add Kraven the Hunter to the list of Spidey baddies.. that is one bad- m.f.!!

[blowout]

I was wondering whether it has been confirmed that Doc Ock is the next main villain in the second Spider-Man movie? Peter Parkers mention of Doctor Connors lead me to believe the Lizard would make his debut.

 

No confirmation yet. The jury is still out, but Doc Ock is the favourite. Who knows though Rami may throw a curve ball and put the Rocket Racer in the flick.

[comicwiz]

aahhhh, but yet they mentioned eddie brock too in the movie, does that mean he will appear this time?

 

I've only seen the movie a Ka-jillion times; refresh my memory supa, when does he mention eddie (venom)?

[comicwiz]

Who knows though Rami may throw a curve ball and put the Rocket Racer in the flick.

 

. And to add to allure of Rami's angle, the Rocket Racer comes out on screen -- and is the first villain to admit he is gay in a hollywood film about a superhero... not that there's anything wrong with that!

[supapimp]

peter doesn't mention him, i think JJJ does to robby robertson at the bugle. aunt may mentions superman, does that mean he'll be in the next movie too?

[ninanina]

Don't think who gets mentioned in the movie will have any bearing on which villain appears next. I seem to remember Harvey Dent actually appearing in the 1st Batman movie and it took awhile before Two Face appeared. I'm sure history will repeat itself.

[fantastic_four]

James, I think you are letting your own personal views of spideys villains cloud your judgement here.

Spider-Man has one of the BEST rouges gallery in comics. And I am not in the minority in saying that.

Doctor Octopus, The Sandman, Hobgoblin, Scorpion, Molten Man, Kraven the Hunter, The Lizard, Electro et all could all make GREAT movie foes for Spider-Man and have potential for first appearance rises in the future.

B-list villains! Which is why almost none of those guys have crossed over to other titles like a Venom, Dr. Doom, or Galactus. They're mostly significant because they get their butts whooped by the best superhero around! There's another Spidey first appearance villain who has crossed over significantly we haven't mentioned--Kingpin.

 

I don't think I'm being swayed by personal bias; I don't even like Goblin much, I just know other people do. Get Scorpion, Electro, and Molten Man off that list!!! The first two are C-list, and Molten Man is D-list.

[murph0]

Yes, they are so crappy that there's been 4 or 5 mini-series just about the Spiderman villains..remind me how many FF villains have had mini-series about them except for Dr Doom? The Spiderman villain group is superb..while not being 100 percent realistic who cares? Do you really think some guy is out there running around in tights with Spider-like powers? (other then the local crackheads)

Attempting to measure how successful a villain is by how many books outside of the series he first appeared in is very poor reasoning for that character to be B/C/or D.

 

Brian

[uclapeterg]

From what I have heard, they are testing special effects for Doc Ock's arms (read "coming attractions") so I think it's pretty much a given he is going to be in the next film.. I have also heard there is also going to be the Lizard. (You know, the envitable sequel where one villian just won't do). There might be an appearance by Black Cat. The latter is pure speculation. So I would add ASM 6 in addition to ASM 3 as a big gainer.

[delekkerste]

B-list villains! Which is why almost none of those guys have crossed over to other titles like a Venom, Dr. Doom, or Galactus.

 

Oh man, FF, this line almost made me hurl all over my keyboard. How on earth can you put Venom above the Lizard, Doc Ock, Kraven, the Chameleon, etc. If a guy with robotic metal arms is unrealistic, what does that make a slobbering alien symbiote costume with a huge tongue and Jaws-like teeth???

 

I've always felt that Venom was the WORST Spidey villain EVER created. Worse than The Grizzly or Rocket Racer. Spidey has always been a human drama - how Pete deals with his powers, his guilt over Uncle Ben's death, his relationships with MJ, Gwen, Flash, Aunt May, etc. and how he deals with others with superpowers but lack his conscience. I've never understood how an alien symbiote fit into this picture, except as a ploy to create a mindless, but visually appealing character to hook a generation of adolescent readers more interested in style over substance.

 

Gene

[COI]

My pick for ASM #3 isn't because of Spidey 2.

 

Whether you like him or not, Doc Ock has been one of the mainstays as far as Spidey villains go. I remember knowing about Doc Ock as a kid, even before I ever picked up a comic. Not to mention how tough this book is to find in grade. I can only guess as to what a true 9.4 would run.

[blowout]

"B-list villains! Which is why almost none of those guys have crossed over to other titles like a Venom, Dr. Doom, or Galactus."

 

So you don't remember the Sandman appearing numerous time in the FF? Or Kraven the Hunter & the Scorpion appearing outside of ASM?

 

My recall is also failing me........just remind me how many times Galactus has appeared in books unrelated the the FF or Silver Surfer............

[COI]

"I really can't see post movie demand generating any great further gains on ASM #14. "

 

Why is it that comic values now center around movies? ASM #14 got to be a $2000 book(in guide) because of its significance to the history of Spidey. And any gains(or losses) will continue to be a result of collector demand. While movie hype can cause spikes in the price of a book, its long term value was set before the movie, and will continue to be an entity apart from Dopey Maguire and Willem Dafoe(SP?). Personally, I think ASM #14 will continue to see some growth, because as was mentioned, it's easily the most significant of the early issues of the title.

[underthebigw]

Here's my shot at this:

 

GAINERS:

 

-Hulk Annual 1 (although I've seen more HG copies in the last year than the last 20)

-Adams/Oneill Bats (these stories have developed a life of their own and the constant references to these stories in Bat-related cartoons and tv shows are just an indication of how well they'll fare in the coming years.)

-All '40's Pep w/ Archie (I've been thinking this way for over a year-interesting to see others are thinking the same way, albeit only with keys). Just too hard to find in grade and too reasonably priced

-Strange Tales 110

-Marvel Team Up 53 (not big bucks, but sooo much room to move, way under-valued)\

-truly rare price variants (hard to find 30 cent ones, most 35 cent ones)

 

LOSERS:

 

-all non-key, non-DC Big 3 Golden Age (this will be a lesson to us all as a generation passes away, just because it was important to you and your friends doesn't mean the next generation will give a rat's )

-most SA and BA CGC 9.0-9.6 (I firmly believe there is an unbelievable ton of HG material salted away that will eventually be slabbed. The end result--everyone will realize that there are very few books, even in HG, that are truly rare).

-more common price variants (with the exception of Spidey and X-men)

-ALL funny animals and cartoon books (except Barks)

-ALL comic strip related books

 

Probably not popular picks, but I'll put money on them.

 

[COI]

"I've never understood how an alien symbiote fit into this picture, except as a ploy to create a mindless, but visually appealing character to hook a generation of adolescent readers more interested in style over substance"

 

I agree. I definetly think Venom was more sales driven than story driven, and I don't find him anymore interesting than these supposed "b-list" villians like Lizard or Electro.

 

I always thought Tombstone(the original thin version) was never given a fair shake. Under the right creative team, he could have been a great villain. He's got that realistic base to him, being that he's a gangster and not some alien symbiote or human Lizard. Throw someone like Miller in there to put together a "gang war" type story, then you've got a character!

[blowout]

Why is it that comic values now center around movies? ASM #14 got to be a $2000 book(in guide) because of its significance to the history of Spidey.

 

I think that it is slightly naive to think that movies won't impact on comic values in the future.

We have discused here numerous times about the shrinking number of comic book readers, so where will future collectors/investors come from?

It is in the publishers best interests to keep there characters 'out there' in the form of movies and spin offs (video games/dvds/trading cards etc). The characters that are in this position and that people know about are the ones that will stand the test of time and maintain some value.

 

Are you saying that you think the Spider-Man film will/has had NO impact on the value of ASM #14?

[COI]

"Marvel Team Up 53 (not big bucks, but sooo much room to move, way under-valued)"

 

" most SA and BA CGC 9.0-9.6 (I firmly believe there is an unbelievable ton of HG material salted away that will eventually be slabbed. The end result--everyone will realize that there are very few books, even in HG, that are truly rare)."

 

So MTU #53 is rare? And why is this so undervalued? Byrne is as over-hyped as it gets. And I bet there's a mountain of fresh NM or higher copies of this book.

 

As far as HG material salted away you may have a point, but only post 1966. Anything earlier, and I just don't see there being much left.

 

[COI]

"Are you saying that you think the Spider-Man film will/has had NO impact on the value of ASM #14? "

 

Yes it has a "spiking effect". Movies can be the push that can motivate a buyer(collector/investor) to grab books, but this is more or less a short term phenomenon. ASM, especially early issues, have always been in tremendous demand. The movie added a short term spike in prices, but over the long haul movies are not the deciding factor, meaning they will not make or break a book like ASM #14.

 

And as for kids these movies will lead them to an @ssload of merchandise like video games, but not so much comics. Inorder for these kids to get onto the comic end of it, they have to start reading. And IMO it'll take more than Ultimate Spiderman to make permanent collectors out of children. I think kids have to have comics put in their hands and have to be exposed to all the different characters and stories that have made this industry inorder to develop a love for it. Identifying a pop culture character is not the same as collecting and preserving the history of that same character.

[fantastic_four]

Those metal arms are just a stretch of the imagination in too many ways. How would they fuse to human flesh? How would nerve centers which don't exist where the arms are on his body attach to electronic circuits? And the most ludicrous of all--why would the arms be so super-strong and super-tough for the purpose of handling little radioactive rods from behind a lead wall? That's the part I couldn't get past--those arms wouldn't support a child for the purpose they were designed, much less pick Spidey up and fling him around.

 

The alien symbiote is easy...it's like mutants! You don't have to make up an origin that could be cheesy; you just say "he's a mutant" or "he's alien" and anything goes!

 

I've never understood how an alien symbiote fit into this picture, except as a ploy to create a mindless, but visually appealing character to hook a generation of adolescent readers more interested in style over substance.

He's not merely "mindless." The alien is pure instinct; it tried to "bond" with him, much like many simple-minded yet instinctual creatures who live symbiotic lives in nature do. I find him to be an interesting opposite to Peter's thoughtfulness; there's very little thought at all going on with him, only reaction. Everything about him is rather simple-minded, yea--the way Brock blamed Spidey for ruining his career when it wasn't his fault, the very simplistic way he protects "innocents"--all that is the reasoning of a 10-year old. But his lack of thought gives him an unhesitating bad-assedness that makes you question how Spidey could ever beat him.

 

Yes, he's more style than substance, but the style inherent in the infinite creativity made possible by the pliability of the symbiote gives him SO much style that he's incredibly likable. If there were another Spidey villain with both the style and substance you describe, I wouldn't like Venom as much. Kingpin has some substance, as does Goblin (beyond issue 31), but most others don't. His style stands far above the substance inherent in his other villains.

 

My favorite villain, Magneto, has just as simplistic an origin since he's a mutant...it's all about the POWERS. Doc Ock's powers never made sense to me, although once you just accept them, he's a decent villain. They're just too awesome on Magneto and Venom. Joker, who has no powers, is one of my favorite villains also...that extreme insanity and morbid jokiness really turns me on.