Pre- Hero Marvels!!!! 16 16

[marvel_runs]

If you're strickly talking about prehero marvel books, the changeover (when Atlas officially became Marvel), you'd be looking about Jan/Feb '61. But the theme of nothing but monster covers had been ongoing for well over a year by that time.

 

It seems like Altas artists were trying to figure out their next (less graphic) genre after the implementation of the comics code, and they experimented with a bunch of different neat things before coalescing on mostly monsters. Here are some more examples of reinterpretation of a different theme...

 

 

 

 

 

[sacentaur]

I really like the ST 97; my top want in the run at moment.

[El Toro Rojo]

I tend to use Astonish #56 as my starting point...Kirby's first Atlas work. But then there's his Yellow Claw stuff in the same period, so maybe not.

[marvel_runs]

I really like the ST 97; my top want in the run at moment.

 

That's my old copy, so it might be floating around out there somewhere. It is probably my #1 favorite comic cover of all covers, so it was a priority of mine to upgrade too. "When a Planet Dies!....."

 

I also really really like the STU #4, same general theme, plus a dramatic sky, a flying saucer, and a window cover - all four features of cover art that I really like. The copy pictured here is a recent upgrade, I just got it back from CGC a few weeks ago.

[KirbyJack]

I tend to use Astonish #56 as my starting point...Kirby's first Atlas work. But then there's his Yellow Claw stuff in the same period, so maybe not.

 

Great stuff, but for me, the real pre-hero stuff is post implosion. Almost every title took a break in the summer of 57, and the books that start up after that are what I call the first "Marvels". Kirby just happened to walk into the office for good a month or two after that, not coincidentally changing comics forever.

[*Bronze age fan*]

Your post reminds me

 

Thoughts on what exactly IS a pre-hero marvel?

 

Thoughts??? What's a pre hero marvel guys?? We've got a whole thread on them!

 

 

 

1/1960 foward. .

[Bronty]

I tend to use Astonish #56 as my starting point...Kirby's first Atlas work. But then there's his Yellow Claw stuff in the same period, so maybe not.

 

Great stuff, but for me, the real pre-hero stuff is post implosion. Almost every title took a break in the summer of 57, and the books that start up after that are what I call the first "Marvels". Kirby just happened to walk into the office for good a month or two after that, not coincidentally changing comics forever.

 

That makes sense to me and feels about right

[Bronty]

then what would you call the range between say JIM 16 and JIM 48? Would those be pre-preheros?

 

 

Hi Peter,

 

Personally I just refer to those as post-code Atlas?

 

I think that "pre-hero marvel" is a term that can't be taken entirely literally because if it was, nothing would meet the definition at all - given that the first marvel comic, Marvel Comics 1, was a hero book.

[Forbush-Man]

Your post reminds me

 

Thoughts on what exactly IS a pre-hero marvel?

 

I take the term to mean, basically, timely/marvel monster comics. I think that's the way fandom at large has always referred to timely/marvel monster comics.

 

The end is pretty clear - the last pre hero marvel should pretty well be, logically, the title before the hero was introduced to the title (even if the tone of the books had already changed a little in some cases).

 

But when do "pre-hero marvels" begin?

 

Does the pre-hero marvel era of, say, Journey into Mystery begin at #1, since every issue of that title is before the introduction of the hero? I don't think so, those early issue are just straight up Atlas horror books.

 

So, when does it begin? To me I can't get away from Kirby. I see his start at Atlas as roughly coinciding with what I would call a pre hero marvel.

 

For example.

 

This issue of Journey into Mystery - http://www.google.ca/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=662&tbm=isch&tbnid=e-xHGyfa2cvD5M:&imgrefurl=http://marvel.wikia.com/Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_52&docid=Jgc2I5OFMqGwAM&imgurl=http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/2/2b/Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_52.jpg&w=400&h=597&ei=-oa9T7PBHOOciAKkzZDiDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=179&vpy=116&dur=1286&hovh=274&hovw=184&tx=125&ty=171&sig=116841302115339098520&page=1&tbnh=148&tbnw=99&start=0&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:70 - slap a small Thor figure on it and it could be any 60s Thor book. It has a lot in common in terms of look with what we think of as marvels.

 

on the other hand, issue #1 is clearly an Atlas. I'd argue issues in the late 40s (issues not years) still have that same atlas feel http://www.google.ca/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=662&tbm=isch&tbnid=AXYDW-2cQQ-vvM:&imgrefurl=http://marvel.wikia.com/File:Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_49.jpg&docid=MhoyWddNWJKOnM&itg=1&imgurl=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080802101036/marveldatabase/images/5/5d/Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_49.jpg&w=400&h=605&ei=3Ie9T7mUEueeiQKd1JiODg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=183&vpy=117&dur=2111&hovh=276&hovw=182&tx=118&ty=126&sig=116841302115339098520&page=1&tbnh=151&tbnw=107&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:68

 

I'd put the changeover on JIM to be sometime early in the issue 50's, Strange Tales late in the issue 60's, TOS and TTA probably around issue #5, etc.

 

Thoughts??? What's a pre hero marvel guys?? We've got a whole thread on them!

 

For me, per- hero Marvels begin December 1958 with Strange Worlds #1, Strange Tales #67 & Journey into Mystery #50. This is we're the beginning of the Kirby/Ditko dominance begins, and mostly Kirby/ Ditko covers from there out. You would naturally include later per-hero titles like Amazing adventures, Amazing Adult Fantasy, Tales of Suspense & Tales to Astonish. Don't leave out Strange Tales annual #1. I'd also include a few of the Marvel western books that had Monster/ super-villain-like characters.

 

Kirby on board makes the real difference to me.

[AtlasFan]

Your post reminds me

 

Thoughts on what exactly IS a pre-hero marvel?

 

I take the term to mean, basically, timely/marvel monster comics. I think that's the way fandom at large has always referred to timely/marvel monster comics.

 

The end is pretty clear - the last pre hero marvel should pretty well be, logically, the title before the hero was introduced to the title (even if the tone of the books had already changed a little in some cases).

 

But when do "pre-hero marvels" begin?

 

Does the pre-hero marvel era of, say, Journey into Mystery begin at #1, since every issue of that title is before the introduction of the hero? I don't think so, those early issue are just straight up Atlas horror books.

 

So, when does it begin? To me I can't get away from Kirby. I see his start at Atlas as roughly coinciding with what I would call a pre hero marvel.

 

For example.

 

This issue of Journey into Mystery - http://www.google.ca/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=662&tbm=isch&tbnid=e-xHGyfa2cvD5M:&imgrefurl=http://marvel.wikia.com/Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_52&docid=Jgc2I5OFMqGwAM&imgurl=http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/2/2b/Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_52.jpg&w=400&h=597&ei=-oa9T7PBHOOciAKkzZDiDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=179&vpy=116&dur=1286&hovh=274&hovw=184&tx=125&ty=171&sig=116841302115339098520&page=1&tbnh=148&tbnw=99&start=0&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:70 - slap a small Thor figure on it and it could be any 60s Thor book. It has a lot in common in terms of look with what we think of as marvels.

 

on the other hand, issue #1 is clearly an Atlas. I'd argue issues in the late 40s (issues not years) still have that same atlas feel http://www.google.ca/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=662&tbm=isch&tbnid=AXYDW-2cQQ-vvM:&imgrefurl=http://marvel.wikia.com/File:Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_49.jpg&docid=MhoyWddNWJKOnM&itg=1&imgurl=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080802101036/marveldatabase/images/5/5d/Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_49.jpg&w=400&h=605&ei=3Ie9T7mUEueeiQKd1JiODg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=183&vpy=117&dur=2111&hovh=276&hovw=182&tx=118&ty=126&sig=116841302115339098520&page=1&tbnh=151&tbnw=107&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:68

 

I'd put the changeover on JIM to be sometime early in the issue 50's, Strange Tales late in the issue 60's, TOS and TTA probably around issue #5, etc.

 

Thoughts??? What's a pre hero marvel guys?? We've got a whole thread on them!

 

For me, per- hero Marvels begin December 1958 with Strange Worlds #1, Strange Tales #67 & Journey into Mystery #50. This is we're the beginning of the Kirby/Ditko dominance begins, and mostly Kirby/ Ditko covers from there out. You would naturally include later per-hero titles like Amazing adventures, Amazing Adult Fantasy, Tales of Suspense & Tales to Astonish. Don't leave out Strange Tales annual #1. I'd also include a few of the Marvel western books that had Monster/ super-villain-like characters.

 

Kirby on board makes the real difference to me.

 

I would also include Ditko and Heck. Kirby, Ditko & Heck are the Triumvirate artists of the pre-hero era!

 

...and dont forget World of Fantasy #16 - that was also one of the first pre-heros - too often forgoten.

 

 

[mysterio]

My sig line is complete! Thanks to marvel_runs (Pete) I have finally completed the Amazing Adventures/Amazing Adult Fantasy/Amazing Fantasy run in 6.0 or better (with the obvious exception of the 4.5 AF #15). This #8 is a stunning copy for the grade, and the main defect knocking it down is a small 1/8" triangle of paper missing off of the lower left corner of the back cover. I think the book would be an easy 8.0-8.5 without that corner off.

 

This is a run I have always wanted to complete, and this #8 has been at the top of my want list for a long time. It is really satisfying to finally have a quality run of these books. I'll try to do a group photo of all the books soon, but the sig line more or less does that for me already...

 

[trmoore54]

My sig line is complete! Thanks to marvel_runs (Pete) I have finally completed the Amazing Adventures/Amazing Adult Fantasy/Amazing Fantasy run in 6.0 or better (with the obvious exception of the 4.5 AF #15). This #8 is a stunning copy for the grade, and the main defect knocking it down is a small 1/8" triangle of paper missing off of the lower left corner of the back cover. I think the book would be an easy 8.0-8.5 without that corner off.

 

This is a run I have always wanted to complete, and this #8 has been at the top of my want list for a long time. It is really satisfying to finally have a quality run of these books. I'll try to do a group photo of all the books soon, but the sig line more or less does that for me already...

 

 

CONGRATS Mysty! My run is "complete" with my last addition being #8 as well...a solid FN-/FN...except of course my set is currently missing that pesky #15...

[mysterio]

Thanks Tom! #8 does seem to be the toughest to find in decent grade, though I am sure that many would argue that #14 is the toughest. I've had more opportunities to buy #14s than #8s. #6 also seems to be hard in grade. As for the #15, I am sure we could get differing opinions on whether or not that book is needed in order for the pre-hero set to be complete. For me it is the Marvel key though (of course, opinions would vary on that too), so I like to bookend the set with it.

[Bronty]

well done sir!!

[Forbush-Man]

Your post reminds me

 

Thoughts on what exactly IS a pre-hero marvel?

 

I take the term to mean, basically, timely/marvel monster comics. I think that's the way fandom at large has always referred to timely/marvel monster comics.

 

The end is pretty clear - the last pre hero marvel should pretty well be, logically, the title before the hero was introduced to the title (even if the tone of the books had already changed a little in some cases).

 

But when do "pre-hero marvels" begin?

 

Does the pre-hero marvel era of, say, Journey into Mystery begin at #1, since every issue of that title is before the introduction of the hero? I don't think so, those early issue are just straight up Atlas horror books.

 

So, when does it begin? To me I can't get away from Kirby. I see his start at Atlas as roughly coinciding with what I would call a pre hero marvel.

 

For example.

 

This issue of Journey into Mystery - http://www.google.ca/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=662&tbm=isch&tbnid=e-xHGyfa2cvD5M:&imgrefurl=http://marvel.wikia.com/Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_52&docid=Jgc2I5OFMqGwAM&imgurl=http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/2/2b/Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_52.jpg&w=400&h=597&ei=-oa9T7PBHOOciAKkzZDiDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=179&vpy=116&dur=1286&hovh=274&hovw=184&tx=125&ty=171&sig=116841302115339098520&page=1&tbnh=148&tbnw=99&start=0&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:70 - slap a small Thor figure on it and it could be any 60s Thor book. It has a lot in common in terms of look with what we think of as marvels.

 

on the other hand, issue #1 is clearly an Atlas. I'd argue issues in the late 40s (issues not years) still have that same atlas feel http://www.google.ca/imgres?um=1&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=662&tbm=isch&tbnid=AXYDW-2cQQ-vvM:&imgrefurl=http://marvel.wikia.com/File:Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_49.jpg&docid=MhoyWddNWJKOnM&itg=1&imgurl=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080802101036/marveldatabase/images/5/5d/Journey_into_Mystery_Vol_1_49.jpg&w=400&h=605&ei=3Ie9T7mUEueeiQKd1JiODg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=183&vpy=117&dur=2111&hovh=276&hovw=182&tx=118&ty=126&sig=116841302115339098520&page=1&tbnh=151&tbnw=107&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:68

 

I'd put the changeover on JIM to be sometime early in the issue 50's, Strange Tales late in the issue 60's, TOS and TTA probably around issue #5, etc.

 

Thoughts??? What's a pre hero marvel guys?? We've got a whole thread on them!

 

For me, per- hero Marvels begin December 1958 with Strange Worlds #1, Strange Tales #67 & Journey into Mystery #50. This is we're the beginning of the Kirby/Ditko dominance begins, and mostly Kirby/ Ditko covers from there out. You would naturally include later per-hero titles like Amazing adventures, Amazing Adult Fantasy, Tales of Suspense & Tales to Astonish. Don't leave out Strange Tales annual #1. I'd also include a few of the Marvel western books that had Monster/ super-villain-like characters.

 

Kirby on board makes the real difference to me.

 

I would also include Ditko and Heck. Kirby, Ditko & Heck are the Triumvirate artists of the pre-hero era!

 

...and dont forget World of Fantasy #16 - that was also one of the first pre-heros - too often forgoten.

 

 

I forgot to metion World of Fantasy, and I would actually start it with #15 (Kirby cover.) (thumbs u

[Forbush-Man]

My sig line is complete! Thanks to marvel_runs (Pete) I have finally completed the Amazing Adventures/Amazing Adult Fantasy/Amazing Fantasy run in 6.0 or better (with the obvious exception of the 4.5 AF #15). This #8 is a stunning copy for the grade, and the main defect knocking it down is a small 1/8" triangle of paper missing off of the lower left corner of the back cover. I think the book would be an easy 8.0-8.5 without that corner off.

 

This is a run I have always wanted to complete, and this #8 has been at the top of my want list for a long time. It is really satisfying to finally have a quality run of these books. I'll try to do a group photo of all the books soon, but the sig line more or less does that for me already...

 

 

Congrats! Awesome run.

[Forbush-Man]

Something else to consider when trying to determine the beginning of the pre-hero Marvels from the Atlas era, would be the death of Atlas great Joe Manneely, July 1958, and his last published piece being the cover to Gunsmoke Western, November 1959.

 

From Wiki:

 

Death

On the night of his death, "past midnight of what was early Sunday morning," June 7, 1958, Maneely had dined hours earlier with fellow laid-off Atlas colleagues, including George Ward and John Severin, in Manhattan.[27] He did not have his glasses with him, and was killed when he accidentally fell between the cars of a moving commuter train on his way home to New Jersey.[28]

 

Fellow Atlas artist Stan Goldberg recalled that on the night of Maneely's death,

 

...Joe [told] me that he'd been in the city the week before and had lost his glasses. He didn't even know how he'd gotten home that day. So this day came and he went out drinking and went out to get some air between the trains, and he fell off the train. When they found him, he was still clutching his portfolio. I remember [production staffer] Danny Crespi calling me on Saturday morning to break the news. [...] The family had a rough time after he died. The Maneelys had daughters and a lot of bills. They had just bought a big house, too, and didn't have any money put away.[29]

 

His last original published story was the five-page Ringo Kid tale "One Bullet Left" in Gunsmoke Western #53 (July 1959), and his final comics work was the cover of Gunsmoke Western #55 (Nov. 1959), featuring Kid Colt and Wyatt Earp. Marvel editor-in-chief Stan Lee opined in the early 2000s that had Maneely lived, "he would have been another Jack Kirby. He would have been the best you could imagine".[24]

[Forbush-Man]

The period from July, 1958 (Death of Maneely & Atlas employees let go during Atlas Implosion) until Kirby comes on board (work starts showing up December 1958) works as a dividing line as well.

[sacentaur]

Thnx for posting that, Bob - I am a huge Maneely fan, and his distinctive style cannot be forgotten.

[Forbush-Man]

Thanks Steve. I wonder if Stan Lee's predictions of Maneely being as big as Kirby would've actually come true.