Bronty Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 PS - boy are the good times over lately on the prehero auction front. Haven't really much worth getting excited about on the last couple or next couple comiclink auctions and heritage hasn't had much either. I don't watch ebay and only sometimes watch comicconnect so maybe there's been material there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Oh wow. I guess there's one exception; I'll be in the corner fapping off to this: http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=497282 Posting it as I imagine the price will go nuts I wish it was a couple grade notches lower. Amazing book but I can see it going 4k or more, that's more than I want to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyJack Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 That IS pretty. Someone's going to love it, but at 4K, I'll have to be content with my reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 well I am just guessing on the final price. Any other guesses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICK STARR Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Few of the prototype issues are going to be as direct and obvious as TTA 27. I am no expert in trying to unravel the minds of Stan Lee or Kirby. But somewhere along the line, they would refer to a previous character they created and then incorporate certain features or characteristics to use in a new creation. I.E., iron mask which creates a feeling of fear,strength, the unknown? The TOS 31 character is an alien whose mask like face created fear. Only in the end was it revealed that it was his real face. The mask certainly is similar to Dr.Doom's. They wanted Doom to project fear and strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 yeah but its the same cover date! Some of these 'prototypes' are just marketing BS IMO Some are, as you say, indications of what Stan et al may have been thinking and show elements of a character that came later A few have MANY elements of characters that came later and are extremely compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Few of the prototype issues are going to be as direct and obvious as TTA 27. well that's a whole other can of worms but I really like how you call it a direct prototype because in my mind that's what it is and that's why I don't own one. I'm not going to pay 1st appearance money for something that isn't. To my surprise Our Army at War 81 and 83 have shown us that the market is willing to accept previous mistakes when it comes to first appearances and is willing to correct itself in time, so I am hopeful that the price will come as far down as it should to reflect prototype status, in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterio Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Few of the prototype issues are going to be as direct and obvious as TTA 27. well that's a whole other can of worms but I really like how you call it a direct prototype because in my mind that's what it is and that's why I don't own one. I'm not going to pay 1st appearance money for something that isn't. To my surprise Our Army at War 81 and 83 have shown us that the market is willing to accept previous mistakes when it comes to first appearances and is willing to correct itself in time, so I am hopeful that the price will come as far down as it should to reflect prototype status, in time. The price/value is the same reason I don't own a TTA #27 and never have. I would like one, but have never wanted to pay market price for this book when it is more a prototype than a true first appearance. I can't see this situation ever changing though, as this book has become ingrained as the first Ant Man. It isn't that equatable to the OAAW situation with Rock because those seemed more open to interpretation than the TTA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Few of the prototype issues are going to be as direct and obvious as TTA 27. well that's a whole other can of worms but I really like how you call it a direct prototype because in my mind that's what it is and that's why I don't own one. I'm not going to pay 1st appearance money for something that isn't. To my surprise Our Army at War 81 and 83 have shown us that the market is willing to accept previous mistakes when it comes to first appearances and is willing to correct itself in time, so I am hopeful that the price will come as far down as it should to reflect prototype status, in time. The price/value is the same reason I don't own a TTA #27 and never have. I would like one, but have never wanted to pay market price for this book when it is more a prototype than a true first appearance. I can't see this situation ever changing though, as this book has become ingrained as the first Ant Man. It isn't that equatable to the OAAW situation with Rock because those seemed more open to interpretation than the TTA. I disagree. I have wanted the first appearance of Rock, in that general sort of way that I want a lot of books, for 25 years. And 25 years ago, let me tell you (something you probably already know :insane), there was no debate. The first appearance of Rock was OAAW 81. There was no other candidate. It was FULLY ingrained. If that can be 'undone' then so too can Antman. The fact that the internet makes it possible for us to view these stories without owning them and for us to have these kinds of discussions is probably part of the reason the market can now change ingrained opinions. Back in the day not enough of us would have owned to OAAW 81 or even TTA 27 to make this sort of call stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterio Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Few of the prototype issues are going to be as direct and obvious as TTA 27. well that's a whole other can of worms but I really like how you call it a direct prototype because in my mind that's what it is and that's why I don't own one. I'm not going to pay 1st appearance money for something that isn't. To my surprise Our Army at War 81 and 83 have shown us that the market is willing to accept previous mistakes when it comes to first appearances and is willing to correct itself in time, so I am hopeful that the price will come as far down as it should to reflect prototype status, in time. The price/value is the same reason I don't own a TTA #27 and never have. I would like one, but have never wanted to pay market price for this book when it is more a prototype than a true first appearance. I can't see this situation ever changing though, as this book has become ingrained as the first Ant Man. It isn't that equatable to the OAAW situation with Rock because those seemed more open to interpretation than the TTA. I disagree. I have wanted the first appearance of Rock, in that general sort of way that I want a lot of books, for 25 years. And 25 years ago, let me tell you (something you probably already know :insane), there was no debate. The first appearance of Rock was OAAW 81. There was no other candidate. It was FULLY ingrained. If that can be 'undone' then so too can Antman. The fact that the internet makes it possible for us to view these stories without owning them and for us to have these kinds of discussions is probably part of the reason the market can now change ingrained opinions. Back in the day not enough of us would have owned to OAAW 81 or even TTA 27 to make this sort of call stick. That is interesting to hear. Being a Marvel guy I must have gotten a skewed impression of the Sgt Rock debate because my perception was that there was more debate. I need to reread TTA #27 again, it has been a while, but I never felt the book justified the significance and attached value. If prices don't come down it may be a permanent hole in my TTA collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Bronze age fan* Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I don't think the prices will come down on the TTA 27. Now is the time to buy one before the movie and all. Perfect time to sell me that Amazing Adventures 3 that taunts me every time you post and start building your war chest for the TTA 27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysterio Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I don't think the prices will come down on the TTA 27. Now is the time to buy one before the movie and all. Perfect time to sell me that Amazing Adventures 3 that taunts me every time you post and start building your war chest for the TTA 27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Rereading tta 27 will only reinforce your opinion. Its a straight monster story with no hero elements. The only reason, IMO, that it was ever considered the first app is because the cover of 35 says the RETURN of antman. But frankly that was a convenient retcon. I'd bet anything that they published 27 as a straight monster story, a couple months later hero books are selling well so they want another hero, and decide to turn the man in the anthill into a hero starting in #35. So they mention the retooling on the cover as the return of the character when really it was a complete reimagining of the character as a hero. That little cover blurb has, I would guess, confused the issue of ant-man's true first appearance for 50 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvac Saga Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 awesome book either way dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hog Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Hahaha well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvac Saga Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Just couldn't resist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boboset Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 That is a gorgeous copy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasFan Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) My pet peeve is the "Thing" prototype in Strange Tales #95, a comic released months after FF#1. Oh man that's a good one! I would totally discount the "Thing" prototype in ST #95. Regardless of the fact that its called "the 2 headed thing", and looks a bit like the Thing in FF #1 (but really more like the Thing's depiction in FF#2, ) - it did come out AFTER the Thing already appeared. Same goes for the "Dr Doom" mask that appears in TOS #31. Folks tend to forget sometimes that there were several months of overlap between FF #1 and the ultimate decline of the monster books - and just wrongly assume that if a similar character appeared in a monster book, its always pre-FF#1. Edited April 12, 2013 by AtlasFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Folks tend to forget sometimes that there were several months of overlap between FF #1 and the ultimate decline of the monster books - and just wrongly assume that if a similar character appeared in a monster book, its always pre-FF#1. Oh absolutely! Exactly right. And in fact, that overlap was more like a year and a half! FF1 was 11/61 and TOS 38 was 2/63 so there's 15 months right there and I'm not sure if I am forgetting any later "posthero preheroes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
