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Pre- Hero Marvels!!!!
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Started by PUNYHUMAN,

15,038 posts in this topic

trmoore54

trmoore54

Posted
Posted (edited)
Yes some more great specimans for our viewing pleasure here the last several pages... (worship)

 

And always nice to see the latest HG book in Hoarder Saga's collection of course... :insane::olol

 

I took stock of the HG census last in Jan 2012...seems to be a steady trickle of new HG copies rolling in...I'll have to update my spreadsheets and share here...will report back soon...

 

Tom,

I get the same impression. There seems to be a steady trickle of new HG copies. Be interesting to see that update. Never even realized that there were no high grade copies of Strange Tales 73 or 83. I've got nice copies that I figured someday I would improve upon. Didn't even realize that both were just one good press from the top. lol

 

OK...finally got it written up today...here's my report. I will post the spreadsheets when I get the chance but as of now, the only way I know how to import the excel spreadsheets is to print them out and scan them as a jpeg file and then photobucket them (If anyone knows the trick of how to post these files please PM me and I will try to insert them in a more direct manner)...

 

PRE-HERO HIGH GRADE CGC CENSUS 7 July 2013

The following is a look at the CGC Census for high grade Atlas/Marvel Pre-Hero books in the last year and a half. I initially catalogued the Census data for grades 7.0 through 9.8…had to drop the HG definition down to 7.0 in my mind as the population was so sparse in 9.0 and better…8.0 and better for that matter. I initially catalogued the data on January 20, 2012. I’ve updated the data on July 7, 2013. The exact time duration is 533 days. All data is for CGC graded books, grades 7.0 through 9.8. As for re-subbed/re-graded books commented on, I don’t know of any of the books provenance or if they have been pressed. Note that the 9.4 category consists of any book 9.4 or greater.

 

My sample case only consists of Journey Into Mystery, Strange Tales and Tales Of Suspense at present, so I apologize to the Tales To Astonish, Amazing Adventures, Amazing Adult Fantasy and Strange Worlds etc afficianados. I will be adding these to my data base in the near future.

 

First up…Journey Into Mystery Issues 50-82 (Jan 1959 to July 1962). Census has grown from 310 books to 390 books, or an increase of 25.8%. Individually, graded copies have increased as follows: 9.4 7 to 8; 9.2 11 to 16; 9.0 32 to 39; 8.5 52 to 61; 8.0 68 to 84; 7.5 69 to 89 and 7.0 71 to 93.

 

Issue 55 still killer-tough in grade with only 1 8.0 in the Census. Followed by Issues 51, 52, 53, 54, 56, 57, 58, 50, 59 and 60 with only single digit representation…4 to 8 copies respectively. Doesn’t get much more plentiful after that, with the remaining issues accounting for only 11 to 19 copies of each, respectively. Issue 51 has a new highest graded 9.0 copy. Issue 52 has a new highest graded 9.0 copy (an 8.5 resub). Issue 58 has a new 8.0 (re-subbed 7.5). Issue 59 has a new highest graded copy, a 9.2 (re-subbed 9.0). Issue 69 has a new 8.5 (re-subbed 8.0). Issue 70 has a new 8.0 (re-subbed 7.5). Issues 51, 55, 56, 58 and 77 have no 7.0 graded copies. Issues 76 and 79 saw no changes.

 

Strange Tales Issues 67-100 (Feb 1959 to Sept 1962) Census has grown from 321 books to 390 books…interesting, the same current number as JIM books…an increase of 21.5%. Individually, graded copies have increased as follows: 9.4 4 to 6; 9.2 10 to 12; 9.0 40 to 36 (decrease!); 8.5 48 to 60; 8.0 88 to 102; 7.5 67 to 87 and 7.0 64 to 87.

 

Issue 71 loses its top spot for scarcity to Issue 74…adding a 7.0 and 7.5 copy. Issue 74 owns the new top spot for scarcity with 2 issues, a 7.5 and 7.0. ST goes 13 issues deep with only single-digit Census representations as opposed to 11 deep for JIM. ST also has 6 issues with 4 copies or less…74, 67, 71, 70, 76 and 83. As we get into the later issues, however, there is a bit more representation in numbers for the last 4 issues, 19 to 28 copies. Issues 85, 92 and 99 each have a new highest graded 9.2. Issue 100 has a new highest graded 9.8! :o Issue 90 has a new (2nd) 9.4 copy added and Issue 97 has a new (2nd) 9.0 copy added. Issue 78 has a new 8.0 (re-subbed 7.0). There have been no changes for issues 74, 76, 80, 81 and 83…get those submissions in guys and gals!

Tales Of Suspense 1-38 (Jan 1959 to Feb 1963) Census has grown from 601 books to 746 books, an increase of 24.1%. It’s interesting there are so many more copies for the TOS series than the other two titles…more than double! My initial thought is that it is because the TOS begins with an Issue #1 and for collectors, a more readily defined set to collect and complete. It will be interesting to compare TTA 1-34…I’ll bet the numbers are very similar. Would be interested to hear everyone’s thoughts and theories on this. Also, as relates to the increased Census numbers, I added a 9.6 grade column to my data/spreadsheet. Individually, graded copies have increased as follows: 9.6 no change (6 ); 9.4 18 to 21; 9.2 35 to 44; 9.0 79 to 92; 8.5 92 to 112; 8.0 133 to 153; 7.5 112 to 150; 7.0 126 to 168.

 

Issue 4 retains the top scarcest copy position while moving from 3 copies to 6 copies. Issue 2 holds at #2 position…while issues 1, 5, 3 and 6 all retain positions 3 through 6 with juggled positions. Issues 10, 20, 7 and 8 hold serve, maintaining their positions to round out the Top 10. It is interesting that Issue 32, quite possibly the most likely book to be submitted for grading (other than the single digit issues of course) remains unchanged with no new books added to the Census. Issues 24 and 35 represent the most books added during the time-frame with 9 books each. While Issue 6’s position Census number did not change from 9 copies, it did have a 9.0 drop to an 8.5 on a re-sub…ouch! Issue 13 had a 9.0 move to a tie for 9.2 highest graded on a re-sub. Issue 17 has a new (2nd) 9.2 highest graded copy, a 9.0 re-sub. Issue 29 had a 9.2 drop to an 8.5 on a re-sub…double-ouch! Issue 33 had an 8.0 drop down to a 7.5 on a re-sub. Issue 34 had an 8.0 move to an 8.5 on a re-sub. Issue 37 had an 8.0 re-grade at a 7.0 on a re-sub...another double ouch! Interesting as well Issues 2, 6 and 12 have no 7.0 graded copies.

 

Edited by trmoore54
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adamstrange

adamstrange

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Fascinating, thanks for all the hard work Tom!

 

(thumbs u

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RICK STARR

RICK STARR

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Thanks for all the info, Tom!!! Very,very interesting statistics. I knew the ST 71 and 74 were tough ones after 20+ years trying to find HG issues. It is amazing how that happens where certain issues can be so hard to find in grade. Low interest in sales that month or low distribution numbers for those issues. What other factors could have resulted in such low HG books on these issues?

 

 

 

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trmoore54

trmoore54

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Fascinating, thanks for all the hard work Tom!

 

(thumbs u

(thumbs u (thumbs u Thanks Tom!!

 

Yo Rich!

 

Also meant to mention in my report, it only accounts for unrestored copies (ignores restored copies)...

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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Thanks for all the info, Tom!!! Very,very interesting statistics. I knew the ST 71 and 74 were tough ones after 20+ years trying to find HG issues. It is amazing how that happens where certain issues can be so hard to find in grade. Low interest in sales that month or low distribution numbers for those issues. What other factors could have resulted in such low HG books on these issues?

 

 

 

Maybe they just haven't been slabbed yet? :shy:

 

ST74.jpg

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*Bronze age fan*

*Bronze age fan*

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Posted (edited)
Thanks for all the info, Tom!!! Very,very interesting statistics. I knew the ST 71 and 74 were tough ones after 20+ years trying to find HG issues. It is amazing how that happens where certain issues can be so hard to find in grade. Low interest in sales that month or low distribution numbers for those issues. What other factors could have resulted in such low HG books on these issues?

 

 

 

 

For what it's worth I have been looking for a low to mid grade copy of Strange Tales #71 for months with no luck. Seems pretty hard to find in any grade.

 

And great info Tom! Thanks!

Edited by *Bronze age fan*
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trmoore54

trmoore54

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Posted
Thanks for all the info, Tom!!! Very,very interesting statistics. I knew the ST 71 and 74 were tough ones after 20+ years trying to find HG issues. It is amazing how that happens where certain issues can be so hard to find in grade. Low interest in sales that month or low distribution numbers for those issues. What other factors could have resulted in such low HG books on these issues?

 

 

 

Maybe they just haven't been slabbed yet? :shy:

 

ST74.jpg

 

Uckin' Fay! :o

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Bronty

Bronty

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A couple of thoughts. I plotted the total # of PH issues for the 4 main titles, and also the number of issues that are POST ff1 (Dec 61 until the various hero introductions). I counted from ST 67, JIM 50, TOS 1 and TTA, based on the discussions in a previous thread.

 

TOS - 38 issues. 15 issues post FF1.

TTA - 34 issues. 9 issues post FF1.

JIM - 33 issues. 8 issues post FF1.

ST - 34 issues. 10 issues post FF1.

 

Now, I would contend that with every month after ff1, the books in general get easier and easier to find in high grade. The high # TOS books in particular, being late 62 and early 63 books... well marvel was in full swing by then so its no surprise they are much more common than their brothers. So one would expect TOS to have the highest # of copies in high grade, both as a result of having the most overall PH issues, and as a result of having the most LATE RUN ph issues.

 

TTA I don't think will be all that far behind, despite having fairly comparable numbers of overall ph compared to ST and JIM. I just see more of them than comparable date ST and JIM. I would contend that's because starting the titles at #1 made it easier for readers to understand, earlier on, that these titles had been taken in a "new direction."

 

I mean.... look at us... this whole forum of PH nerds took some time to single out ST 67 and JIM 50 as the start of the new direction. Readers in 1959 would not have been looking nearly as closely and it may have left JIM and ST sagging in terms of copies printed and/or saved in HG as a result.

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trmoore54

trmoore54

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A couple of thoughts. I plotted the total # of PH issues for the 4 main titles, and also the number of issues that are POST ff1 (Dec 61 until the various hero introductions). I counted from ST 67, JIM 50, TOS 1 and TTA, based on the discussions in a previous thread.

 

TOS - 38 issues. 15 issues post FF1.

TTA - 34 issues. 9 issues post FF1.

JIM - 33 issues. 8 issues post FF1.

ST - 34 issues. 10 issues post FF1.

 

Now, I would contend that with every month after ff1, the books in general get easier and easier to find in high grade. The high # TOS books in particular, being late 62 and early 63 books... well marvel was in full swing by then so its no surprise they are much more common than their brothers. So one would expect TOS to have the highest # of copies in high grade, both as a result of having the most overall PH issues, and as a result of having the most LATE RUN ph issues.

 

TTA I don't think will be all that far behind, despite having fairly comparable numbers of overall ph compared to ST and JIM. I just see more of them than comparable date ST and JIM. I would contend that's because starting the titles at #1 made it easier for readers to understand, earlier on, that these titles had been taken in a "new direction."

 

I mean.... look at us... this whole forum of PH nerds took some time to single out ST 67 and JIM 50 as the start of the new direction. Readers in 1959 would not have been looking nearly as closely and it may have left JIM and ST sagging in terms of copies printed and/or saved in HG as a result.

 

XLNT insight Dan! I think your observations are spot-on...thanks for adding to our Nerd-formation... :insane:

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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Posted
A couple of thoughts. I plotted the total # of PH issues for the 4 main titles, and also the number of issues that are POST ff1 (Dec 61 until the various hero introductions). I counted from ST 67, JIM 50, TOS 1 and TTA, based on the discussions in a previous thread.

 

TOS - 38 issues. 15 issues post FF1.

TTA - 34 issues. 9 issues post FF1.

JIM - 33 issues. 8 issues post FF1.

ST - 34 issues. 10 issues post FF1.

 

Now, I would contend that with every month after ff1, the books in general get easier and easier to find in high grade. The high # TOS books in particular, being late 62 and early 63 books... well marvel was in full swing by then so its no surprise they are much more common than their brothers. So one would expect TOS to have the highest # of copies in high grade, both as a result of having the most overall PH issues, and as a result of having the most LATE RUN ph issues.

 

TTA I don't think will be all that far behind, despite having fairly comparable numbers of overall ph compared to ST and JIM. I just see more of them than comparable date ST and JIM. I would contend that's because starting the titles at #1 made it easier for readers to understand, earlier on, that these titles had been taken in a "new direction."

 

I mean.... look at us... this whole forum of PH nerds took some time to single out ST 67 and JIM 50 as the start of the new direction. Readers in 1959 would not have been looking nearly as closely and it may have left JIM and ST sagging in terms of copies printed and/or saved in HG as a result.

Maybe not the "whole forum" :shy: and no I don't have copies of either of those two issues as they weren't Kirby covers. The other aspect is that collectors in the 60s/70s aren't likely to have focused on them since the start was even harder for them to determine and because, wait for it, they weren't Kirby covers. 2c

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