Bronty Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 welcome, and a thank you for compiling the stats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 A couple of thoughts. I plotted the total # of PH issues for the 4 main titles, and also the number of issues that are POST ff1 (Dec 61 until the various hero introductions). I counted from ST 67, JIM 50, TOS 1 and TTA, based on the discussions in a previous thread. TOS - 38 issues. 15 issues post FF1. TTA - 34 issues. 9 issues post FF1. JIM - 33 issues. 8 issues post FF1. ST - 34 issues. 10 issues post FF1. Now, I would contend that with every month after ff1, the books in general get easier and easier to find in high grade. The high # TOS books in particular, being late 62 and early 63 books... well marvel was in full swing by then so its no surprise they are much more common than their brothers. So one would expect TOS to have the highest # of copies in high grade, both as a result of having the most overall PH issues, and as a result of having the most LATE RUN ph issues. TTA I don't think will be all that far behind, despite having fairly comparable numbers of overall ph compared to ST and JIM. I just see more of them than comparable date ST and JIM. I would contend that's because starting the titles at #1 made it easier for readers to understand, earlier on, that these titles had been taken in a "new direction." I mean.... look at us... this whole forum of PH nerds took some time to single out ST 67 and JIM 50 as the start of the new direction. Readers in 1959 would not have been looking nearly as closely and it may have left JIM and ST sagging in terms of copies printed and/or saved in HG as a result. Maybe not the "whole forum" and no I don't have copies of either of those two issues as they weren't Kirby covers. The other aspect is that collectors in the 60s/70s aren't likely to have focused on them since the start was even harder for them to determine and because, wait for it, they weren't Kirby covers. Oh absolutely. When I said it was harder for "readers" to see the change point, I was referring to both point-of-sale readers and early collectors. I absolutely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Btw, I think the kirby cover thing persists to this day, at least with some people. I feel that way myself to a degree. For example, its hard for me to consider shelling out the bucks for a nice TOS 1. For me the #1 means nothing, I think the title really gets going around #6 - so I hate the idea of paying a "#1 premium" on it, and plus its a heck cover. Its a good heck cover, but I'll always know and I just don't care for don. Similarly as much as I'd like to find cheap copies... good luck.. of ST 67 and JIM 50, the covers aren't the best, JIM 50 is downright goofy in fact, with all due respect to the talented Mr. Sinnott. I'm more interested in the issues that are slightly later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamstrange Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Btw, I think the kirby cover thing persists to this day, at least with some people. I feel that way myself to a degree. For example, its hard for me to consider shelling out the bucks for a nice TOS 1. For me the #1 means nothing, I think the title really gets going around #6 - so I hate the idea of paying a "#1 premium" on it, and plus its a heck cover. Its a good heck cover, but I'll always know and I just don't care for don. Similarly as much as I'd like to find cheap copies... good luck.. of ST 67 and JIM 50, the covers aren't the best, JIM 50 is downright goofy in fact, with all due respect to the talented Mr. Sinnott. I'm more interested in the issues that are slightly later. When books get pricey relative to your budget it makes sense to prioritize. Although I emphasized Kirby covers, I'm just as happy admiring a sweet Ditko pre-hero cover.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosland Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Tom, Thank you for that great survey of the pre-hero existence. Being a Strange Tales guy myself, I can contribute a couple of graphs for your information. First up is the total number of CGC 8.0-9.8 copies of issues 67-100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosland Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 ...and second is the number of CGC 8.0+ copies of 67-100 (per issue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosland Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 In summary (just as you stated): Issues 71,74 are impossible Issues 67,70,83 are freaking hard Issues 68,69,76,87 are not much better Good Luck collecting these! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 In summary (just as you stated): Issues 71,74 are impossible Issues 67,70,83 are freaking hard Issues 68,69,76,87 are not much better Good Luck collecting these! In summary: They are all hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyJack Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 They're tough if you stick to high grades (in this case, fine or better), but they're just the perfect amount of work for bottom-feeder completists like me. Not everywhere, so you don't get bored with the lack of challange; and not so soul-crushingly scarce as to make you surrender. I get what you're saying. I just wouldn't want to discourage any prospective pre-hero collectors out there. Putting my pre-hero runs together continues to be the most enjoyable aspect of my collecting activities. If these books are of interest to you, jump in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
october Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 In summary (just as you stated): Issues 71,74 are impossible Issues 67,70,83 are freaking hard Issues 68,69,76,87 are not much better Good Luck collecting these! Didn't realize that 71 was so tough. I have a nice looking copy in the 7.0-8.0 range that I will have to scan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamstrange Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Thanks for the charts (thumbs u Tom, Thank you for that great survey of the pre-hero existence. Being a Strange Tales guy myself, I can contribute a couple of graphs for your information. First up is the total number of CGC 8.0-9.8 copies of issues 67-100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trmoore54 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Thanks for the charts (thumbs u Tom, Thank you for that great survey of the pre-hero existence. Being a Strange Tales guy myself, I can contribute a couple of graphs for your information. First up is the total number of CGC 8.0-9.8 copies of issues 67-100. Yes...cool graphs Erik! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICK STARR Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Thanks for all the info, Tom!!! Very,very interesting statistics. I knew the ST 71 and 74 were tough ones after 20+ years trying to find HG issues. It is amazing how that happens where certain issues can be so hard to find in grade. Low interest in sales that month or low distribution numbers for those issues. What other factors could have resulted in such low HG books on these issues? Maybe they just haven't been slabbed yet? Show off, but we love it. Figured you may have s few of these HTF ST locked away. Adam, you showed a PH group picture of your White Mountains awhile back. Still have it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Fellow Pre-Hero Collectors, FYI, I just put the following into the "These Scores need fixing" thread to get a boost for Pre-Hero Marvel registry points. Wish me(us) luck ! http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6839780#Post6839780 Fellow Pre-Hero collectors, we've suffered a major setback in our attempt to get more registry points. Cheetah posted the following point against an increase... 'The registry gives low points for all mid and low grades. Points seldom match the price. I think tripling the points for 3.0 would result in a ten-fold increase for a 9.8. I think the pre-hero Marvels have been bumped three times in the last few years. I'm not saying they don't warrant more points, just that they've already seen a lot of increases and doubling or tripling them value you them in excess of other similarly valued titles.' Gemma acknowledged his point and stated...... 'Correct, there is a standard formula for the scoring, so if the score is increased for the lower grades it will affect the higher grades exponentially. I'm taking notes of all of this but will hold off to make the changes for a bit to make sure there is a general consensus.' At this point, I'm not sure what to do other than to ask everyone to post their feelings in the 'these scores need fixin thread' Link above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICK STARR Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Tom, thanks for the graphs and info. Great discussion happening here on this thread. This is my ST 71. It's from a HG collection that I have mentioned before in this thread. I refer to as the Oakleaf PH collection. Anyway, the next issue, #72, from this collection graded out as a CGC 9.0 (highest grade). This a nice copy probably would grade out 7.5 or so due to some scuffing along top edge. Not sure if came right off the stand like this when the OO purchased it or just not ideal storage conditions over the years. My point being that what I considered the greatest PH collectionI have ever seen, other than the White Mountains, only produced this mid-grade copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamstrange Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Thanks for all the info, Tom!!! Very,very interesting statistics. I knew the ST 71 and 74 were tough ones after 20+ years trying to find HG issues. It is amazing how that happens where certain issues can be so hard to find in grade. Low interest in sales that month or low distribution numbers for those issues. What other factors could have resulted in such low HG books on these issues? Show off, but we love it. Figured you may have s few of these HTF ST locked away. Adam, you showed a PH group picture of some of your White Mountains awhile back. Still have it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICK STARR Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Thanks for all the info, Tom!!! Very,very interesting statistics. I knew the ST 71 and 74 were tough ones after 20+ years trying to find HG issues. It is amazing how that happens where certain issues can be so hard to find in grade. Low interest in sales that month or low distribution numbers for those issues. What other factors could have resulted in such low HG books on these issues? Show off, but we love it. Figured you may have s few of these HTF ST locked away. Adam, you showed a PH group picture of some of your White Mountains awhile back. Still have it?? OMG, just a beautiful sight Are going to have them all slabbed before you bury them with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamstrange Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Thanks for all the info, Tom!!! Very,very interesting statistics. I knew the ST 71 and 74 were tough ones after 20+ years trying to find HG issues. It is amazing how that happens where certain issues can be so hard to find in grade. Low interest in sales that month or low distribution numbers for those issues. What other factors could have resulted in such low HG books on these issues? Show off, but we love it. Figured you may have s few of these HTF ST locked away. Adam, you showed a PH group picture of some of your White Mountains awhile back. Still have it?? OMG, just a beautiful sight Are going to have them all slabbed before you bury them with you? Can't. Evidently there's too much risk of the plastic creating toxic fumes and sickening the mourners at the funeral pyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICK STARR Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
