When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[ChrisInBaltimore]

The majority of the people - the 99% of the market that don't post here - consider pressing to be restoration, as it always has been.

 

No they don't--the overwhelming majority of that 99% haven't thought about it one way or the other because restoration isn't something they ever think about. Unless you were referring exclusively to the high-end market, and if you were, I suspect a bit more than 1% of that segment has posted here at some point.

 

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

Ooooookay.

 

Why are you assuming that the 99% of people who don't post here automatically consider pressing to be restoration? That's a mighty big assumption

 

OK, I'll give you that...a bit of exaggeration on my part.

 

What I'm saying is that if you don't do the CGC thing, but are aware of grading/restoration issues, you'll be old school Overstreet and will consider pressing to be resto.

 

It was CGC that changed that classification.

 

CGC's stand on it is odd. I, again, think it all comes down to the ease of detection. CGC is grading hundreds of books a day most likely. It must be imposible to tell if they've been restored and/or pressed. I think this is even more true of modern books then anything.

 

And they can't go back on their stance now. It'd be way too difficult.

[sufunk]

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

No. 98% of the market doesn't buy books expensive enough for restoration to even be a risk, so it isn't even on their radar.

 

Untrue.

 

And I have a large client base that buys expensive raw and belies your assertion.

 

Of all comic collectors, what % would you say have ever spent over say $500 on a book?

 

I've never really thought about it but i'd guess its pretty low

[delekkerste]

Are people really outraged over unbending paper fibers?

 

Sorry, Roy, you could not be more off-base if you tried. It's not about "unbending paper fibers", it's about destroying the magic surrounding beautiful comics that somehow survived the ravages of time for decades. It used to be when I saw a super high grade comic, I used to marvel at how it had somehow survived mom throwing it out, being read and all the other damage-causing pitfalls that most comics encounter. This was especially true of pedigree books.

 

But now? Not so much, because we know that a near totality of high grade books is pressed/worked on prior to submission, even books that arguably don't need to be worked on. Minor imperfections, in many cases, can simply be pressed away. Friends of mine who press tell me flat-out that, even if there is not obvious damage that can be repaired by pressing, they'll throw a book under the press to "freshen it up" for sale anyway. Unless you don't know what you're doing (re: pressing), there's no downside to doing so, right? Not to mention, while we're on the subject destroying the magic of books surviving the ravages of time, staple-popping is now more prevalent than pill popping at an EDM festival, while cleaning (even solvent cleaning) is very common practice as well. It's all about getting your books "worked on" and prepped for sale; gone is the illusion that the book you see today actually achieved that condition through careful storage and preservation.

 

Frankly, that bothers me and destroys any illusion that collecting high grade used to have for me. It doesn't have anything to do with money.

[Flaming_Telepath]

The majority of the people - the 99% of the market that don't post here - consider pressing to be restoration, as it always has been.

 

No they don't--the overwhelming majority of that 99% haven't thought about it one way or the other because restoration isn't something they ever think about. Unless you were referring exclusively to the high-end market, and if you were, I suspect a bit more than 1% of that segment has posted here at some point.

 

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

Ooooookay.

 

Why are you assuming that the 99% of people who don't post here automatically consider pressing to be restoration? That's a mighty big assumption

 

OK, I'll give you that...a bit of exaggeration on my part.

 

What I'm saying is that if you don't do the CGC thing, but are aware of grading/restoration issues, you'll be old school Overstreet and will consider pressing to be resto.

 

It was CGC that changed that classification.

 

CGC's stand on it is odd. I, again, think it all comes down to the ease of detection. CGC is grading hundreds of books a day most likely. It must be imposible to tell if they've been restored and/or pressed. I think this is even more true of modern books then anything.

 

And they can't go back on their stance now. It'd be way too difficult.

 

Oh, I don't disagree...but it does leave us with a split market.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Are people really outraged over unbending paper fibers?

 

Sorry, Roy, you could not be more off-base if you tried. It's not about "unbending paper fibers", it's about destroying the magic surrounding beautiful comics that somehow survived the ravages of time for decades. It used to be when I saw a super high grade comic, I used to marvel at how it had somehow survived mom throwing it out, being read and all the other damage-causing pitfalls that most comics encounter. This was especially true of pedigree books.

 

But now? Not so much, because we know that a near totality of high grade books is pressed/worked on prior to submission, even books that arguably don't need to be worked on. Minor imperfections, in many cases, can simply be pressed away. Friends of mine who press tell me flat-out that, even if there is not obvious damage that can be repaired by pressing, they'll throw a book under the press to "freshen it up" for sale anyway. Unless you don't know what you're doing (re: pressing), there's no downside to doing so, right? Not to mention, while we're on the subject destroying the magic of books surviving the ravages of time, staple-popping is now more prevalent than pill popping at an EDM festival, while cleaning (even solvent cleaning) is very common practice as well. It's all about getting your books "worked on" and prepped for sale; gone is the illusion that the book you see today actually achieved that condition through careful storage and preservation.

 

Frankly, that bothers me and destroys any illusion that collecting high grade used to have for me. It doesn't have anything to do with money.

 

 

For most anti-pressers, that's it in a nutshell. It's the sheer wonder that something could have beat all the odds and remained looking pristine and fresh without any intervention.

[Flaming_Telepath]

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

No. 98% of the market doesn't buy books expensive enough for restoration to even be a risk, so it isn't even on their radar.

 

Untrue.

 

And I have a large client base that buys expensive raw and belies your assertion.

 

Of all comic collectors, what % would you say have ever spent over say $500 on a book?

 

I've never really thought about it but i'd guess its pretty low

 

Not really sure, but I do think you're setting the bar too high for when restoration should play some part in your consideration.

 

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

[fantastic_four]

And I have a large client base that buys expensive raw and belies your assertion.

 

I'd estimate the high-end comics market to be around 10,000 people plus or minus 5,000, and the overall back-issue comics market to be around 100,000 plus or minus 25,000. I wouldn't be surprised if those estimates are off, but I would be shocked if the comparative size of those two groups isn't overwhelmingly lopsided away from the high-end market. The vast majority of collectors don't think about restoration at all.

[HarveySwick]

There's a lot to read here so I apologize if this has already been discussed (I'm only halfway catching up with this thread)...

 

but this whole "pressing is restoration" and "it's the devil!"...

 

The only real argument against it how it could damage a book I've ever seen is that the heat could cause a reaction down the road weakening the paper which makes me somewhat nervous. Other than that...

 

I get that the book's spine oftentimes is flattened and the book looks squashed and what not. But really, once a book is pressed and encased in a slab.. is it ever really cracked and taken out of a slab to be read and enjoyed. I just look at it as a piece of art to be admired in a frame - the CGC case.

 

I do think that the whole reverse press/spinal adjustment therapy nonsense where part of the front cover ends up on the back is awful and that is ruining the book, but other than that. If you send a book to be pressed with someone who knows what they're doing and does a great job (Joey) it just makes the books appearance look so much nicer in a case. Are you really going to notice that the spine is flat - it's in a case and you'll never hold the actual book anyway. And obviously everyone wants the highest grade/nicest copy they can afford for their personal collection right? If I can spend less for a lower copy, press it, submit it and it's the same grade as a much more expensive copy that I couldn't normally afford...

 

Just my for whatever it's worth.

 

Does this make sense to anyone else or am I just ?

[fantastic_four]

Frankly, that bothers me and destroys any illusion that collecting high grade used to have for me. It doesn't have anything to do with money.

 

You're the very last person in the entire forum I'll believe cares nothing about the money at all there, Gordon Gekko. Nobody's saying that's ALL the anti-pressers care about, but to suggest it doesn't matter at all is disingenuous.

[fantastic_four]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft. A handful of people might press a $50 book themselves if they have the knowledge and the tools to do it, but nobody sends a $50 book off to be charged close to $50 to have it pressed.

[ItsJustRyan]

or am I just ?

 

THIS.

 

- In seriousness though, it's an interesting subject that most definitely has mutiple sides:

 

(1) The purest - who wants ZERO alterations

(2) The opportunitist - who wants to maxmimize profit

(3) The regular collector - who wants the best presenting book for the money

 

I see all sides of the debate and like all things, it comes down to individual preference. Personally, I don't mind buying a pressed book, but that's me. Others are free to "vote with their dollars" elsewhere. Free market baby... free market.

[sufunk]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft.

 

I think you're wrong on this one. I've gone thru some SA books i bought back in the early 90's and found more than a few with amateur color touch. These were NOT expensive books either. back then, they were $20-50 books and even now would be worth at absolute most a couple hundred if that.

[fantastic_four]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft.

 

I think you're wrong on this one. I've gone thru some SA books i bought back in the early 90's and found more than a few with amateur color touch. These were NOT expensive books either. back then, they were $20-50 books and even now would be worth at absolute most a couple hundred if that.

 

Magic markers and Sharpies are cheap, so that I'll believe. The 90s was a very different time, and $20 back then meant a lot more than it does today. Pressing is harder than using a magic marker is.

[sufunk]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft.

 

I think you're wrong on this one. I've gone thru some SA books i bought back in the early 90's and found more than a few with amateur color touch. These were NOT expensive books either. back then, they were $20-50 books and even now would be worth at absolute most a couple hundred if that.

 

Magic markers and Sharpies are cheap, so that I'll believe. The 90s was a very different time, and $20 back then meant a lot more than it does today. Pressing is harder than using a magic marker is.

 

True. If you are talking pieces added, tear seals and the like, yeah that probably isnt happening on a cheap book. Someone adding a few dots of color touch though can and does happen to ANY book, even quarter bin books.

[HarveySwick]

or am I just ?

 

THIS.

 

I hate you.

[gaz973]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft. A handful of people might press a $50 book themselves if they have the knowledge and the tools to do it, but nobody sends a $50 book off to be charged close to $50 to have it pressed.

Sorry but I just don't believe this. I feel certain that there are plenty of cases of people sending $50 and less books to be pressed in the hopes of getting 9.8s.

[HarveySwick]

(1) The purest - who wants ZERO alterations

(2) The opportunitist - who wants to maxmimize profit

(3) The regular collector - who wants the best presenting book for the money

 

it comes down to individual preference. Personally, I don't mind buying a pressed book, but that's me. Others are free to "vote with their dollars" elsewhere. Free market baby... free market.

And I think this sums it up best and I guess I'd be in category #3! (thumbs u

[Waylander]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft. A handful of people might press a $50 book themselves if they have the knowledge and the tools to do it, but nobody sends a $50 book off to be charged close to $50 to have it pressed.

Sorry but I just don't believe this. I feel certain that there are plenty of cases of people sending $50 and less books to be pressed in the hopes of getting 9.8s.

 

I have heard the same - especially people trying to complete Registry sets.

[Spiderphill]

 

For most anti-pressers, that's it in a nutshell. It's the sheer wonder that something could have beat all the odds and remained looking pristine and fresh without any intervention.

 

 

Mile High pedigree sitting in a perfect climate basement and stacked properly to prevent spine roll is "beating the odds." No, that's Edgar church intervening.

[gaz973]

The majority of the people - the 99% of the market that don't post here - consider pressing to be restoration, as it always has been.

 

No they don't--the overwhelming majority of that 99% haven't thought about it one way or the other because restoration isn't something they ever think about. Unless you were referring exclusively to the high-end market, and if you were, I suspect a bit more than 1% of that segment has posted here at some point.

 

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

Ooooookay.

 

Why are you assuming that the 99% of people who don't post here automatically consider pressing to be restoration? That's a mighty big assumption

 

OK, I'll give you that...a bit of exaggeration on my part.

 

What I'm saying is that if you don't do the CGC thing, but are aware of grading/restoration issues, you'll be old school Overstreet and will consider pressing to be resto.

 

It was CGC that changed that classification.

 

CGC's stand on it is odd. I, again, think it all comes down to the ease of detection. CGC is grading hundreds of books a day most likely. It must be imposible to tell if they've been restored and/or pressed. I think this is even more true of modern books then anything.

 

And they can't go back on their stance now. It'd be way too difficult.

 

It would be against their interests to be able to detect pressing so it's not like they would ever even want to try.