When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[Spiderphill]

 

For most anti-pressers, that's it in a nutshell. It's the sheer wonder that something could have beat all the odds and remained looking pristine and fresh without any intervention.

 

 

Mile High pedigree sitting in a perfect climate basement and stacked properly to prevent spine roll is "beating the odds." No, that's Edgar church intervening.

 

So you're saying that simply exhibiting common sense when storing your collectibles is the same as paying for a restorative process to enhance the appearance of your book?

 

Really?

intervention is intervention.

 

So having a shower is the same as getting breast augmentation?

 

Really?

showering = cleaning your comic = restoration. Breast augmentation = color touch. Both the same.

 

What's a bunghole bleaching? Like having rusty staples cleaned?

 

Correct and it's all back to FT's original statement. Intervention.

[ItsJustRyan]

[Spiderphill]

I like the sound of it too. "Gonna send my books to Joey for an intervention." Brilliant.

[delekkerste]

So you're saying that simply exhibiting common sense when storing your collectibles is the same as paying for a restorative process to enhance the appearance of your book?

 

Really?

 

The Edgar Church story only adds to the magic of old books being beautifully preserved over the years. Books with defects being disassembled and run under a press...not so much. Church did not set out to use pressure to reverse damage that had been done to the books. And if anyone thinks that this is the equivalent to pressing, why don't we try stacking a bunch of comic books on their face vs. putting their face under a press and heating it up for a while. I mean, c'mon.

[VintageComics]

So you're saying that simply exhibiting common sense when storing your collectibles is the same as paying for a restorative process to enhance the appearance of your book?

 

Really?

 

The Edgar Church story only adds to the magic of old books being beautifully preserved over the years. Books with defects being disassembled and run under a press...not so much. Church did not set out to use pressure to reverse damage that had been done to the books. And if anyone thinks that this is the equivalent to pressing, why don't we try stacking a bunch of comic books on their face vs. putting their face under a press and heating it up for a while.

 

I get exactly what you're saying and I agree that there is a difference between preventative intervention and intervention after the fact.

 

I agree with the magic behind something unforseen like the church books.

 

(thumbs u

[Foolkiller]

Frankly, that bothers me and destroys any illusion that collecting high grade used to have for me. It doesn't have anything to do with money.

 

You're the very last person in the entire forum I'll believe cares nothing about the money at all there, Gordon Gekko. Nobody's saying that's ALL the anti-pressers care about, but to suggest it doesn't matter at all is disingenuous.

 

Gene drives an Aston Martin, lives in Manhattan, collects Gil Elvgren paintings at $100K+ a pop and just about started his own hedge fund. I'm guessing that the outrage for Gene ain't about the money at all.

 

The average person has a very different reaction to, say, a book being pressed or a Hulk #181 being ripped in half than Gene would.

 

Gene, I do agree with you and Nick about the "wonder with no intervention".

 

The truth though, is that there is a sense of wonder whether a book is a 9.2 or a 9.8 at the age of 70 years - the defects are so miniscule in those grade ranges that the appeal of a finding a book preserved in either condition is a sense of wonder...and at arm's lengths they will both look extremely attractive.

 

The market conditions that create the price disparity between grade points are what I believe attracts the majority of emotions though.

 

 

Roy -- I agree with a number of things you've said in this thread, however, I would note that I truly believe that more people than you're estimating in the anti-pressing crowd have a philosophical opposition to the practice because of the historical or collecting aspect. I'm sure money does play a role for some in the anti press sentiments, but honestly, having spoken to a number of them, it's just unreasonable to many of them to press a book and it's "cheating".

 

For many of us here, if you're in the business of buying and selling comic books pressing is almost a no brainer if you want to do what businesses do: max out the amount they make. Even casual collectors turned dealers press because it makes them more money. If you become known as a dealer "who doesn't press" you can create a niche market because all the pressers will buy from you once they find out. Does that serve the anti-press crowd better? Of course not.

 

The bottom line is that I think Gene is correct, something special is lost for high grade since the inception of pressing. But I think where they are mistaken is believing that some level of manipulation hasn't always been a part of the game. Obviously not on this scale but... it's been part of the game.

[Spiderphill]

So you're saying that simply exhibiting common sense when storing your collectibles is the same as paying for a restorative process to enhance the appearance of your book?

 

Really?

 

The Edgar Church story only adds to the magic of old books being beautifully preserved over the years. Books with defects being disassembled and run under a press...not so much. Church did not set out to use pressure to reverse damage that had been done to the books. And if anyone thinks that this is the equivalent to pressing, why don't we try stacking a bunch of comic books on their face vs. putting their face under a press and heating it up for a while. I mean, c'mon.

So finding a high grade bronze collection now is "magical"

[Spiderphill]

Anyhow, done with pressing debates. I can't even take them serious. Good luck to you all beating up the dead horse .

[delekkerste]

You're the very last person in the entire forum I'll believe cares nothing about the money at all there, Gordon Gekko.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I care plenty about money. It just doesn't play any role whatsoever regarding whether I approve of pressing or not.

 

In any case, Pandora's Box was opened long ago, so I think people have to either live with the current status quo or find themselves a new hobby. There's no going back at this point, unfortunately.

[VintageComics]

something special is lost for high grade since the inception of pressing.

 

I just agreed with Gene about the "magic" of something the Church collection so I agree with this as well.

 

I just find it hard not to believe that the money factor makes something more or less magical. I have a hard time not believing that finding a $20,000 book is much more 'magical' to the general public than finding a $20 book.

 

 

[DiceX]

 

 

[HarveySwick]

 

 

Just put him in a nice case and you're good to go! (thumbs u

[delekkerste]

So finding a high grade bronze collection now is "magical"

 

Considering that the Copper Age books I bought as a kid today average 9.0s, despite my best efforts to preserve them, I do find a high grade OO bronze collection to be magical and wondrous. If you don't, that is your loss.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

So finding a high grade bronze collection now is "magical"

 

Considering that the Copper Age books I bought as a kid today average 9.0s, despite my best efforts to preserve them, I do find a high grade OO bronze collection to be magical and wondrous. If you don't, that is your loss.

 

I'm with Gene on this one. Finding any sort of OO collection is cool....if they are high grade, then even better. Even Copper stuff from the 80s, the stuff I grew up with, while plentiful and abundant, is still pretty cool to come across every now and again in unread shape.

[sufunk]

So finding a high grade bronze collection now is "magical"

 

Considering that the Copper Age books I bought as a kid today average 9.0s, despite my best efforts to preserve them, I do find a high grade OO bronze collection to be magical and wondrous. If you don't, that is your loss.

 

I'm with Gene on this one. Finding any sort of OO collection is cool....if they are high grade, then even better. Even Copper stuff from the 80s, the stuff I grew up with, while plentiful and abundant, is still pretty cool to come across every now and again in unread shape.

 

THIS!!!

 

I was VERY meticulous how i kept my books as a kid in the late 70's-early 80's. VERY!!! Even still, they are probably 8.0 at absolute best. Finding even a CA collection in HG is pretty freaking cool in my book (thumbs u

[fantastic_four]

Roy -- I agree with a number of things you've said in this thread, however, I would note that I truly believe that more people than you're estimating in the anti-pressing crowd have a philosophical opposition to the practice because of the historical or collecting aspect. I'm sure money does play a role for some in the anti press sentiments, but honestly, having spoken to a number of them, it's just unreasonable to many of them to press a book and it's "cheating".

 

For many of us here, if you're in the business of buying and selling comic books pressing is almost a no brainer if you want to do what businesses do: max out the amount they make. Even casual collectors turned dealers press because it makes them more money. If you become known as a dealer "who doesn't press" you can create a niche market because all the pressers will buy from you once they find out. Does that serve the anti-press crowd better? Of course not.

 

The bottom line is that I think Gene is correct, something special is lost for high grade since the inception of pressing. But I think where they are mistaken is believing that some level of manipulation hasn't always been a part of the game. Obviously not on this scale but... it's been part of the game.

 

Yes, it increases the high-grade population, thereby making rare books less rare and therefore less special. That's cheating.

 

The people who actually care about the invisible, no-longer-bent paper fibers I put into a "special" category of the "special" category we're all already in. But I do get why they think it's cheating.

 

And then there's the money cheating--I paid $500 for this 9.6, whereas you paid $100 for that 9.2 and pressed it into my $500 9.6. And that's the money-related cheating nobody who doesn't press themselves is disingenuous when they say it doesn't matter to them. wildly_fanciful_statement! It matters to everyone except the super-rich. This is only one of these types of cheating that I can fathom someone off enough to quit the hobby as a whole.

 

I've considered leaving the high-end hobby myself, many times, because of the gaming. Don't have to worry about ANY of these types of cheating when you're just buying trade paperbacks, rifling through dollar bins, and reading the stories.

[fantastic_four]

So finding a high grade bronze collection now is "magical"

 

Considering that the Copper Age books I bought as a kid today average 9.0s, despite my best efforts to preserve them, I do find a high grade OO bronze collection to be magical and wondrous. If you don't, that is your loss.

 

I'm with Gene on this one. Finding any sort of OO collection is cool....if they are high grade, then even better. Even Copper stuff from the 80s, the stuff I grew up with, while plentiful and abundant, is still pretty cool to come across every now and again in unread shape.

 

+2

 

Super-cool to find pristine bronze OO.

[Foolkiller]

While individual copper books aren't hard to find in high grade, finding runs or multiple runs of unread or very high grade copper books is difficult. When you go to a store or conventions, it isn't the "norm" to see long runs of high grade books (for instance, how often do you see runs of early 80s Batmans in high grade 9.4 and better?)

 

I think it's cool and love seeing high grade books from any era.

[Flaming_Telepath]

So finding a high grade bronze collection now is "magical"

 

Considering that the Copper Age books I bought as a kid today average 9.0s, despite my best efforts to preserve them, I do find a high grade OO bronze collection to be magical and wondrous. If you don't, that is your loss.

 

I'm with Gene on this one. Finding any sort of OO collection is cool....if they are high grade, then even better. Even Copper stuff from the 80s, the stuff I grew up with, while plentiful and abundant, is still pretty cool to come across every now and again in unread shape.

 

THIS!!!

 

I was VERY meticulous how i kept my books as a kid in the late 70's-early 80's. VERY!!! Even still, they are probably 8.0 at absolute best. Finding even a CA collection in HG is pretty freaking cool in my book (thumbs u

 

Yup, count me in as well.

 

And if you consider that a Bronze Age collection could now be 40-45 years of age, before the time of mylars and fullbacks, it's pretty bloody special to find it in 9.0 or better condition.

[originalisbest]

Roy -- I agree with a number of things you've said in this thread, however, I would note that I truly believe that more people than you're estimating in the anti-pressing crowd have a philosophical opposition to the practice because of the historical or collecting aspect. I'm sure money does play a role for some in the anti press sentiments, but honestly, having spoken to a number of them, it's just unreasonable to many of them to press a book and it's "cheating".

 

For many of us here, if you're in the business of buying and selling comic books pressing is almost a no brainer if you want to do what businesses do: max out the amount they make. Even casual collectors turned dealers press because it makes them more money. If you become known as a dealer "who doesn't press" you can create a niche market because all the pressers will buy from you once they find out. Does that serve the anti-press crowd better? Of course not.

 

The bottom line is that I think Gene is correct, something special is lost for high grade since the inception of pressing. But I think where they are mistaken is believing that some level of manipulation hasn't always been a part of the game. Obviously not on this scale but... it's been part of the game.

 

Yes, it increases the high-grade population, thereby making rare books less rare and therefore less special. That's cheating.

 

The people who actually care about the invisible, no-longer-bent paper fibers I put into a "special" category of the "special" category we're all already in. But I do get why they think it's cheating.

 

And then there's the money cheating--I paid $500 for this 9.6, whereas you paid $100 for that 9.2 and pressed it into my $500 9.6. And that's the money-related cheating nobody who doesn't press themselves is disingenuous when they say it doesn't matter to them. BS! It matters to everyone except the super-rich. This is only one of these types of cheating that I can fathom someone off enough to quit the hobby as a whole.

 

I've considered leaving the high-end hobby myself, many times, because of the gaming. Don't have to worry about ANY of these types of cheating when you're just buying trade paperbacks, rifling through dollar bins, and reading the stories.

 

100% agree that money-cheating is likely the unspoken-of burr in some complainers' saddles. Doesn't bother me any, it is what it is. If a 9.2 is pressed into a 9.6 and I agree with the appearance and presence of that book as a 9.6 and want it for my collection at price X, then great! I would prefer even more strongly to just find the pressable 9.2 for my collection. All the angst over this skeletonized equine. It be kinda funny.