Amazing Spider-Man 512 SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

[25CentComic]

yeah. I guess we needed to be more specific?? Like "do something interesting cool and fun that doesnt screww things up in a perverted way for a sales bump!!"

 

that better?

 

Works for me. Perhaps we can send him a link to this post.

[The Brain]

I don't like this development either but aren't the same people posting at this outrage the very same who a year ago said that Amazing Spidey was boring cause Straczynski was doing absolutely nothing with the title? I clearly remeber a post about how Amazing Spider-man was boring fans and that the spider totem story went absolutely nowhere. So basically, the writers are damn if they do and damned if they don't. I would hate to have us as fans.

 

fan: "Do something new with the storyline you wanker!"

Straczynski: "okay"

fan: "OMFG, he did something new with the storyline! What the hell was he thinking? The dumb jerk!"

 

 

R O F L M A O SO TRUE SO TRUE INDEED

[helionaut]

I had the same reaction as most people after reading. Actually, my first reaction was a misunderstanding. I thought Gwen and Harry had hooked up (which I guess was the obvious choice), and Norman was trying to "steal" the babies as replacement heirs. I had to go back and reread to be clear what was what. Somehow, I thought him yelling,"These children are mine!" was rhetorical.

 

But I don't think it's done yet. In MJ's retelling of events, she says Gwen said,"I went to see him about something else." What could she have gone to see him about? Hurm.

 

After some reflection, I guess I'm actually intrigued by this development. Instead of using Gwen simply as a bit of random leverage against Spidey, his capturing and killing her now has deeper motivation, which I guess is the point we're supposed to see. And as to how Gwen actually did it with him, women continually surprise you. What man has never had that nauseous, queasy feeling upon finding out that a female co-worker or classmate went to bed with a total scumbag for a one-night stand or something, especially if you find out about it much later? Skeletons, man, every chick's got 'em.

 

My biggest question, though, is why all this business with the police lab to get only part of the message. Couldn't Spidey have brought the letter to Matt Murdock and gotten the complete story in about 10 seconds?

[COI]

Stupid, sad and disgusting.

[blutobc]

I had the same reaction as most people after reading. Actually, my first reaction was a misunderstanding. I thought Gwen and Harry had hooked up (which I guess was the obvious choice), and Norman was trying to "steal" the babies as replacement heirs. I had to go back and reread to be clear what was what. Somehow, I thought him yelling,"These children are mine!" was rhetorical.

 

But I don't think it's done yet. In MJ's retelling of events, she says Gwen said,"I went to see him about something else." What could she have gone to see him about? Hurm.

 

Yeah, there's wiggle room for a possible storyline that can get out of this nasty quagmire. And the bottom line is that JMS better use it or he can kiss his comics career behind. Yeah, yeah, I know he's rich, famous, makes movies, etc. but he's bordering on finding out what happens when you alienate the fanboys.

 

and what can we do?

bottom line is ignore him and anything he is involved with.

Strike the ego, man...hit him where it hurts.

 

Oh, and of course we can just wait for the retcon by his replacement. I sure that plenty of past and future Spidey writers are foaming at the mouth about this ridiculous twist and can't wait to have Petey wake up and swear not to eat burritos right before bed again(dang nightmares).

[Solar]

So does this mean that Norman was secretly banging MJ in the first movie? I'd like to see those deleted scenes.

[PUNYHUMAN]

Marvel ,I think is grasping at straws nowadays!! They've completely rejected there past along time ago,what a Shame!!! What a stupid story line,like Rob said, Cheesy!!! C'mon Marvel , be more creative then that ,get better writers or better editors!!!

[Stark This-migration]

Or Aunt May is really momma May

 

If you read "Trouble", I wouldn't be surprised if they use something along these lines as a future Story. Not that May is his mother but that Ben really was his father and cheated on May with her best friend at a summer job.

 

Trouble wasn't a bad story but pretty pointless if they never use it a Spidey book.

 

As for this current story, I have been an on again off again Spidey reader for years and I have to say that I am quickly approaching "of again". I am feeling pretty confident now that Marvel is finally going to do the unthinkable, bring back one of the only characters that has been able to remain dead.

[awe4one]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here....

 

What's the difference between this revelation and turning formerly "virginal" Karen Page into a porn star and drug addict in Daredevil?

 

Jim

[Tango 'n Cash]

What's the difference between this revelation and turning formerly "virginal" Karen Page into a porn star and drug addict in Daredevil?

 

Because it changed the future of a living character and did not screw with the past of a long-dead icon.

[rob_react]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here....

 

What's the difference between this revelation and turning formerly "virginal" Karen Page into a porn star and drug addict in Daredevil?

 

It's similar and I do think that the decision to sully Karen Page was somewhat exploitative. But, I'm a Daredevil fan and I never cared about Karen Page in the same way that Spider-Man fans cared about Gwen so I just rolled with it. I don't think I'm alone. There are reasons: The lack of an ultimate classic "Death of Karen Page" issue from the reader's childhoods to imprint Karen as a shining beacon of innocence and young love is the big one- There's a reason Kurt Busiek used Gwen and her innocence as a symbol of all that the Marvel heroes fight to save in Marvels. Also, the overall tone of Spider-Man is perceived to be upbeat while Daredevil is dark, making the presence of porn star/ drug addict Karen Page a more natural fit- I mean, Elektra, one of Matt's other great loves, is a cold-blooded professional killer and she fits in just fine. There's more, but I think those examples cut to the heart of the matter.

[chrisco37]

Say what you will about Ultimate Spidey, but this storyline is one of the reasons why "Ultimate" is necessary. Too much past stuff has made it impossible to come up with something "fresh". And when they do, it usually receives this kind of reaction.

 

True, Ultimate isn't totally "fresh" (as the characters are pretty close to what they were originally), but at least the characters get to start over with a clean slate.

 

I'm glad I never got back into reading Amazing. JMS is a hack anyway....Check out "Supreme Power".

[blutobc]

Say what you will about Ultimate Spidey, but this storyline is one of the reasons why "Ultimate" is necessary. Too much past stuff has made it impossible to come up with something "fresh". And when they do, it usually receives this kind of reaction.

 

True, Ultimate isn't totally "fresh" (as the characters are pretty close to what they were originally), but at least the characters get to start over with a clean slate.

 

I'm glad I never got back into reading Amazing. JMS is a hack anyway....Check out "Supreme Power".

 

How fresh is it when you redo old plots but just use a different villain to kill Gwen? How long until we find out that she slept with Carnage in the Ultimate Universe?

 

I'm not really disagreeing with you about the Ultimate Universe but repetition is still repetition.

[Darthdiesel]

Yeah...Ultimate Gwen's dead and no one really seemed to care. As for JMS, I've always enjoyed his Top Cow line, Rising Stars and am glad it is finally releasing the next issue (after a 2 year hiatus? - maybe JMS got the boot from Marvel after this last storyline ) - but Supreme Power/Doctor Spectrum helped filled that Rising Stars void for a while now...

 

Those of us who grew up post 1973 did not get the Gwen influence on ASM and Peter - for me, my teen years saw Peter hooking up with MJ and eventually marrying her, so MJ for me is Spidey's number one gal pal (Fleicia Hardy, Wasp and Black Widow were mere superbabe flirtations) - so what JMS does here probably does not concern me as much as if he had done something as shocking with MJ

[Kevin Boyd]

JMS is a decent enough writer, I just don't understand why he doesn't work on NEW Spider-Man stories without the need to delve into, and retcon, the past.

 

To date, I've enjoyed the majority of his work on the title. I thought he did he great job with the Doc Ock story in Hollywood. Spider-Man 50 was also quite good.

 

I grew up in the 70's, but if you were a Spider-Man fan you had plenty of time to enjoy Spidey stories with Gwen in them as she was active in all of the Marvel Tales reprints. When they reprinted ASM 121-122 an entire generation who didn't read them the first time got to experience the tragedy of Gwen's death at the hands of the Goblin.

 

Honestly, this is probably the dumbest comic book retcon since Ben Reilly was revealed as the original Spider-Man, and that Peter was the clone. Essentially changing 20 years of Spider-Man stories into the adventures of the Spider-Clone. Thank god they woke up on that one.

 

I even could handle the return of Norman Osborn after all of that because, at the very least, Spidey's universe became a lot more dangerous with Norman in it.

 

Even JMS' Spider-totem stuff wasn't that bad. It was a lesser attempt, but similar to Swamp Thing finding out he's not the first Swamp Thing, or that he can tap into the green and do a whole bunch of new tricks.

 

But this Gwen/Norman/Goblin seduction that resulted in rapidly aging kids is just plain dumb. It's worse soap opera than something you might get on General Hospital or Days of Our Lives. It's pure trash, and does the characters a lot more damage in the long run than some of these apologists are giving JMS credit for.

[plitch]

Those of us who grew up post 1973 did not get the Gwen influence on ASM and Peter - for me, my teen years saw Peter hooking up with MJ and eventually marrying her, so MJ for me is Spidey's number one gal pal (Fleicia Hardy, Wasp and Black Widow were mere superbabe flirtations) - so what JMS does here probably does not concern me as much as if he had done something as shocking with MJ

 

MJ wouldn't go for the Goblin. She's all about the Vulture. MJ has to out do Gwen in everything...

[Aman619]

hey, what if it turns out that it wasnt Norman, but Chameleon impersonating Norman. And he tricked Gwen with pheromones or something. Then Gwen is innocent again cause it was just a case of super-villain date-rape!!

 

I cant explain the super fast aging though......but, since when does the Goblin serum speed up aging? If so, Norman would be 200 years old by now...

[The_End_At_Last]

Close, but no cigar.

 

The real truth is that the children are Norman's, but they belong to the Gwen clone ! Osborn then manipulated Gwen's mind to think that she had slept with him. He also knew that MJ was listening at the door etc etc etc.

 

Surely people would prefer this storyline than what you think you've just read ?!

[25CentComic]

Close, but no cigar.

 

The real truth is that the children are Norman's, but they belong to the Gwen clone ! Osborn then manipulated Gwen's mind to think that she had slept with him. He also knew that MJ was listening at the door etc etc etc.

 

Surely people would prefer this storyline than what you think you've just read ?!

 

why manipulate Gwen's mind? Perhaps the whole plot took place with the clone all along while the real gwen was at a pasty shop deciding which cookie to eat? This whole clone/spidey/spidey story was messed up way before JMS came along.

[Kevin Boyd]

the real gwen was at a pasty shop deciding which cookie to eat?

 

And what kind of cookie would Gwen be eating at a PASTY shop... HMMMM??

 

Maybe her special relationship wasn't with Norman after all.

 

 

 

(Just in case you don't get what I'm saying - a PASTY is an adhesive patch worn to cover the nipple of an exotic dancer and/or striptease performer.)