I will never look at the end of ''The Killing Joke'' the same way again.

[Logan510]

I haven't read it in years, but I honestly never had the impression that Batman killed him

[nickwire]

I never thought that was the ending based on the art because it looks like hes grabbing his shoulders or he hit his chest while bent over laughing. im surprised dc didn't dumb it down and have "snap" in a panel or something

[Bird]

If you look at the responses to the audio link, an author named Julian Darius, who wrote a book called "And the Universe So Big" states that Batman does kill the Joker on the final page of The Killing Joke, but with the Joker's own poison needle device, not a neck snap, and that explains the positioning of Batman's arm being below the neck.

 

Well, in the CBR comments section someone quotes from the -script and it says nothing about killing the Joker then, but that they share a calm moment together.

 

tomaytoe, tamatoe

[Comicopolis]

i thought this was well known?

Then why did DC make it 'In continuity'?

 

DC - continuity.

[JAM_NYC]

I've never even considered the idea that he kills the joker at the end. Interesting concept, though. Looking at it now, I can see why some believe that. I'm assuming Alan Moore hasn't gone on record about what happens at the end, or we wouldn't be having this conversation? All I know is, Tony Soprano dies at the end of the finale, Shane is dead on his horse, and there's no way that was a munchkin hanging himself in the background of the Wizard of Oz!

[Bio-Rupp]

I thought the fact that there is no beam of light in the last panel made it pretty obvious the joker was killed, goes back to the joke about the two escapees from the asylum...plus its in the title of the book.

 

 

I always thought that too, about the light between them, but if you look at the second to last panel...the light is still there, but their feet are gone, as if they walked away.

 

 

Well if you look at the reflection light between them in the lower panels... that could be considered the line Batman would never cross (murder)... and he crosses it to kill the Joker

[Larryw7]

I'm looking at the 2008 edition of The Killing Joke. The afterword is by Brian Bolland. He ends the afterword with this cryptic paragraph:

 

"...t's time I revealed what really happened at the end of THE KILLING JOKE:as our protagonists stood there in the rain laughing at the final joke, the police lights reflecting in the pools of filthy water underfoot, the Batman's hand reached out and..."

Brian Bolland UK 2008

[darkstar]

I thought the fact that there is no beam of light in the last panel made it pretty obvious the joker was killed, goes back to the joke about the two escapees from the asylum...plus its in the title of the book.

 

 

I always thought that too, about the light between them, but if you look at the second to last panel...the light is still there, but their feet are gone, as if they walked away.

 

 

I always saw it as the light being turned off the in the last panel, the same way the light is turned off in the convict joke which leads to the convict falling to his death...

 

That panel isn't just there for filler.

 

I always thought this book was approached, when it was being created, as being a one-shot/elseworlds/non-cannon book, and then parts of it were adopted into cannon because they were so good. And just because DC ran with the idea that the Joker crippled Barbara Gordon later on down the road, doesn't mean the entirety of the Killing Joke was part of the main continuity. The same event could have happened in multiple universes with the outcome being different.

[nearmint]

I never thought that was the ending based on the art because it looks like hes grabbing his shoulders or he hit his chest while bent over laughing. im surprised dc didn't dumb it down and have "snap" in a panel or something

 

But if you look at that panel, Batman's grin almost looks maniacal, almost Joker-like. It could easily be seen as the "kill panel". And what would the Joker do in the seconds before death? Laugh, of course.

[comix4fun]

I thought the fact that there is no beam of light in the last panel made it pretty obvious the joker was killed, goes back to the joke about the two escapees from the asylum...plus its in the title of the book.

 

 

I always thought that too, about the light between them, but if you look at the second to last panel...the light is still there, but their feet are gone, as if they walked away.

 

 

I always saw it as the light being turned off the in the last panel, the same way the light is turned off in the convict joke which leads to the convict falling to his death...

 

That panel isn't just there for filler.

 

I always thought this book was approached, when it was being created, as being a one-shot/elseworlds/non-cannon book, and then parts of it were adopted into cannon because they were so good. And just because DC ran with the idea that the Joker crippled Barbara Gordon later on down the road, doesn't mean the entirety of the Killing Joke was part of the main continuity. The same event could have happened in multiple universes with the outcome being different.

 

 

I love that it's so open to interpretation. While most comics are forgotten, literally, as they are being read, this one endures. It was the perfect combination of Hall of Fame caliber writer and artist both at the peak of their powers crafting something so potent and concentrated that it felt then and feels now like a punch in the guts.

 

 

If released today, this story would have been a 3-6 issue arc and, as soon as people latched onto it, it would be stretched to 12 issues and crossover into 10 other books and diluted and watered down until there was nothing left but tasteless mush.

[Aweandlorder]

Actually I just re read the book (after almost 30 years) and I now remember that when reading it back then I did kinda think that was an open ended question, because of the Joker's joke relating to the light being turned off and not for any other reason, but it was more of a "hmmm makes me wonder" type of thing than a "wow! Batman killed the joker!"...

Kind of like the ending in Inception... One of those endings that are supposed to put a smile on your face and not hold more value than that

[maloney414]

All this talk of the feet not being in panel 8, or the light not being in panel 9 never crossed my mind.

 

To me it was always the artist fading us out by zooming in to the ground.

 

i.e. the blue box below is panel 8, and the yellow box is panel 9. Just closing the story. The shape of the dry dirt is the same, with even the same rocks.

 

 

 

[DamageInc-migration]

If released today, this story would have been a 3-6 issue arc and, as soon as people latched onto it, it would be stretched to 12 issues and crossover into 10 other books and diluted and watered down until there was nothing left but tasteless mush.

 

So you're saying Bendis would be the writer, not Moore?

[mrmyst]

[Porcelain Monkey-migration]

All this talk of the feet not being in panel 8, or the light not being in panel 9 never crossed my mind.

 

To me it was always the artist fading us out by zooming in to the ground.

 

i.e. the blue box below is panel 8, and the yellow box is panel 9. Just closing the story. The shape of the dry dirt is the same, with even the same rocks.

 

 

 

I agree with this. It's a cinematic effect, likely dictated by Alan Moore in his -script, if what I have read about his notes to his various artists is true. Now, did we want the ending to be ambiguous? Sure. Would DC have let him have Batman kill the Joker? Even in a story out of continuity? No way! As someone else pointed out if Moore had killed the Joker he would have talked about it at some point, especially given what I understand his relationship to be with DC post the Watchmen rights issue.

[bababooey]

Here's a link to the majority of the beginning of the -script (no ending)

....from skimming it, I've come the conclusion that the raindrops in the puddle are there to signify...

 

raindrops in a puddle

 

 

http://fourcolorheroes.home.insightbb.com/killingjokescript.html

[Beige]

I've never even considered the idea that he kills the joker at the end. Interesting concept, though. Looking at it now, I can see why some believe that. I'm assuming Alan Moore hasn't gone on record about what happens at the end, or we wouldn't be having this conversation? All I know is, Tony Soprano dies at the end of the finale, Shane is dead on his horse, and there's no way that was a munchkin hanging himself in the background of the Wizard of Oz!

 

That didn't make it to Australia! Is there supposed to be a dead actor somewhere in the Wizard of Oz?

[bababooey]

I've never even considered the idea that he kills the joker at the end. Interesting concept, though. Looking at it now, I can see why some believe that. I'm assuming Alan Moore hasn't gone on record about what happens at the end, or we wouldn't be having this conversation? All I know is, Tony Soprano dies at the end of the finale, Shane is dead on his horse, and there's no way that was a munchkin hanging himself in the background of the Wizard of Oz!

 

That didn't make it to Australia! Is there supposed to be a dead actor somewhere in the Wizard of Oz?

I'd imagine most of them are by now.

[Aman619]

All this talk of the feet not being in panel 8, or the light not being in panel 9 never crossed my mind.

 

To me it was always the artist fading us out by zooming in to the ground.

 

i.e. the blue box below is panel 8, and the yellow box is panel 9. Just closing the story. The shape of the dry dirt is the same, with even the same rocks.

 

 

 

I agree with this. It's a cinematic effect, likely dictated by Alan Moore in his -script, if what I have read about his notes to his various artists is true. Now, did we want the ending to be ambiguous? Sure. Would DC have let him have Batman kill the Joker? Even in a story out of continuity? No way! As someone else pointed out if Moore had killed the Joker he would have talked about it at some point, especially given what I understand his relationship to be with DC post the Watchmen rights issue.

 

I agree. I think what we have here is insider speculation by one write to another. No way DC lets Alan Moore kill Joker in this story. So Im thinking Alan Moore, rebel to the core, had it done so that he still had some ambiguity because he had WANTED to have Batman kill Joker. If it was discussed by DC with him at Th.e time, At best they said ok to the ambiguity, inside joke to go along with the Killing Joke!

 

and I never noticed the zooming in as pointed out here.. Nice catch!

 

I too was let down by the ending when I read it way back when. Its nice now to think Moore had planned a bit more to his ending.... but clearly since DC kept Batgirl crippled in continuity and Joker alive, Batman did not kill Joker here.

 

if this was Marvel however? we'd now have a 12 part miniseries where we find out all Joker appearances since Killing Joke were a clone!

[Comixroc]

All this talk of the feet not being in panel 8, or the light not being in panel 9 never crossed my mind.

 

To me it was always the artist fading us out by zooming in to the ground.

 

i.e. the blue box below is panel 8, and the yellow box is panel 9. Just closing the story. The shape of the dry dirt is the same, with even the same rocks.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

The last three panels seem to be camera fade outs. The patch of dirt is in the lower part of 7, but in the upper part of 8. By panel 9, the patch of dirt, light and feet are gone.

 

After shaking the out of the joker, bats hands him to the cops.

 

The car lights, feet and dirt are gone because the camera is pulling away as bats is dragging him in the opposite direction. Plus Barbara remained paralyzed and joker appeared afterwards.

 

He did not kill joker.