The next BIG Comic Book swindle

[slym2none]

Putting it out there as a counterfeit helps get the word out.

 

 

To who tho'? They should either be brutal and destroy it, or as I said make some definitive stamp on it, then slab it. Just marking COUNTERFEIT all over the label, doesn't stop someone cracking it out and passing the mess on quietly to someone else. In fact I just realised, I would say destroy it. So if you are unlucky enough to send in a fake CGC should destroy the book outright and maybe refund you your fee. Its tough mess and a harsh lesson but that's life. And its one less piece of mess floating around in the comicsphere

 

It is a real comic book, just a counterfeit one. And it isn't CGC's property to destroy. However, I see no problem with a large circular stamp, almost the diameter of the book's width, that says "COUNTERFEIT" inside it, and don't just stamp the cover. Every page gets the stamp.

 

 

 

-slym

[Samcro-migration]

Putting it out there as a counterfeit helps get the word out.

 

 

To who tho'? They should either be brutal and destroy it, or as I said make some definitive stamp on it, then slab it. Just marking COUNTERFEIT all over the label, doesn't stop someone cracking it out and passing the mess on quietly to someone else. In fact I just realised, I would say destroy it. So if you are unlucky enough to send in a fake CGC should destroy the book outright and maybe refund you your fee. Its tough mess and a harsh lesson but that's life. And its one less piece of mess floating around in the comicsphere

 

It is a real comic book, just a counterfeit one. And it isn't CGC's property to destroy. However, I see no problem with a large circle, almost the diamter of the book's width, that says "COUNTERFEIT" inside it, and don't just stamp the cover. Every page gets the stamp.

 

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

 

sounds good

[mackenzie999]

I agree with the comment that says it is not CGC's property to destroy, and I'll go one further, it is not their property to stamp. I know this enables possible deception to continue, but that borders on vigilantism. Suppose I had a lot of money in a book, which they then stamped. I then decide to get second and third opinions who say it is genuine. The proper course of action would be to contact the owner and ask them what they would like done with it. I would in fact choose the counterfeit stamp, but if they do not own the book it is not their decision to make. The possibility of counterfitting may make this a legal matter, but CGC are not agents of the law.

[Samcro-migration]

I agree with the comment that says it is not CGC's property to destroy, and I'll go one further, it is not their property to stamp. I know this enables possible deception to continue, but that borders on vigilantism. Suppose I had a lot of money in a book, which they then stamped. I then decide to get second and third opinions who say it is genuine. The proper course of action would be to contact the owner and ask them what they would like done with it. I would in fact choose the counterfeit stamp, but if they do not own the book it is not their decision to make. The possibility of counterfitting may make this a legal matter, but CGC are not agents of the law.

 

Good point. I guess CGC are only ever offering an opinion after all, and God knows they have made mistakes before. Don't know what the solution is then. Someone previously suggested smashing the book into the seller's face, could be the best option now

[Mr.Diggler]

Someone recently told me to beware of forged books. Swore they had seen some. I don't buy it because I haven't seen any, but this source is usually reliable. Is it even possible to counterfeit old books? Practically, is it financially viable? I'm pretty sure I could spot a forgery

 

Everything that is valuable can be forged/counterfeited. How good a fake is another story. A guy around my parts got busted a few months ago for forging fake gold bullion. They found stamping equipment and fake holders/cases/boxes in his home which helped him make all the fakes he was selling across the country to appear as if they had been issued by the Royal Canadian Mint. He was also selling fake Krugerrands.

 

Apart from luring the buyer who doesn't know any better by making the price attractive when compared to what a reputable source selling genuine bullion, the enabler to such scams is usually they they go to some length to make it difficult for the buyer to detect a fake.

 

One thing that has been tried and not yet achieved is finding a way to simulate the density and weight of a gold. So one thing you find that might happen is people off-setting any discrepancy in a troy oz measured bullion by adding the weight on the holder or slab. Different strokes in other hobbies, but the one constant is the matter of making sure you know the ways to spot a fake from real.

 

I wonder if CGC has ever had a forged sub, and if so did they slab it duly noted on the label?

 

If I recall correctly from back in my sports card days, when PSA receives a counterfeit card to grade they destroy the card instead of putting it in a slab.

 

 

That's crazy. Why would they slab that? It should have been returned with a note saying thanks but we can't slab this due to the fact it ain't real.

The CGC gets paid if it's a counterfeit book or the real deal.

[comicwiz]

I'm wrong. 4th edition has the circulation statements for Hulk 181 and GL 76.

[Chespirito]

 

Yeah....that's pretty neat....that would be a great conversation piece in my guess restroom....

[slym2none]

Guess restroom?

 

Hope I choose the right one...

 

 

 

 

-slym

[DiceX]

Guess restroom?

 

Hope I choose the right one...

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

No, I'm fishing chunks out of my urinal.

 

 

[slym2none]

 

 

 

-slym

[dupont2005]

No tinfoil is necessary. The facts are that this hobby has, deliberately or not, suppressed the kind of research and historical reference that have been used to correct other hobbies.

 

Google "how many model t's were made" - and you'll find the number somewhere in the 15,000,000 range. I remember as a teen, a friend of the family and his peers touting it was a rare car, but alas, there was no Google, Internet record, or easy access to expertise that could refute the claim.

 

So if you compare what Model T's used to sell for even twenty years ago, you would likely find they have depreciated signficantly, and those examples which have been somewhat resistant to the this aspect of high production, have still gained very, very little in light of how old and significant a place it holds in Ford's history and the way it revolutionized the automotive industry.

 

Can you run a similar search on Hulk 181 or Green Lantern 76? How about a Star Wars 1 35 cent price variant?

 

What's happened instead in this hobby has more to with the magic of the hand being quicker than the eye, and how CGC grading has distracted everyone from asking "how many of X were made."

 

It's a distraction because it's led everyone to the pond or firehose that is preoccupying us with enough drink to only remain concerned with how many copies exist in X grade.

 

My hunch is that if the "true" production/distribution numbers were ever made accessible, we would see a correction in the market far worse than what we see with census padding from CPR or any "warehouse" find.

I don't think it matters how many Model T's were made. What matters is how many are left and how bad people want to own them. Same with GA comics. An all steel all original no rust Model T is an exceedingly rare vehicle, one not many are likely to ever see in their lifetimes. I attend car shows somewhat regularly and I'm not sure I've ever seen one. I've seen restored Model T's that may have incorporated any number of repop aftermarket parts, I've seen steel bodied replicas, but I'm not sure I've ever seen an all original Model T.

[Prince Namor]

No tinfoil is necessary. The facts are that this hobby has, deliberately or not, suppressed the kind of research and historical reference that have been used to correct other hobbies.

 

Google "how many model t's were made" - and you'll find the number somewhere in the 15,000,000 range. I remember as a teen, a friend of the family and his peers touting it was a rare car, but alas, there was no Google, Internet record, or easy access to expertise that could refute the claim.

 

So if you compare what Model T's used to sell for even twenty years ago, you would likely find they have depreciated signficantly, and those examples which have been somewhat resistant to the this aspect of high production, have still gained very, very little in light of how old and significant a place it holds in Ford's history and the way it revolutionized the automotive industry.

 

Can you run a similar search on Hulk 181 or Green Lantern 76? How about a Star Wars 1 35 cent price variant?

 

What's happened instead in this hobby has more to with the magic of the hand being quicker than the eye, and how CGC grading has distracted everyone from asking "how many of X were made."

 

It's a distraction because it's led everyone to the pond or firehose that is preoccupying us with enough drink to only remain concerned with how many copies exist in X grade.

 

My hunch is that if the "true" production/distribution numbers were ever made accessible, we would see a correction in the market far worse than what we see with census padding from CPR or any "warehouse" find.

I don't think it matters how many Model T's were made. What matters is how many are left and how bad people want to own them. Same with GA comics. An all steel all original no rust Model T is an exceedingly rare vehicle, one not many are likely to ever see in their lifetimes. I attend car shows somewhat regularly and I'm not sure I've ever seen one. I've seen restored Model T's that may have incorporated any number of repop aftermarket parts, I've seen steel bodied replicas, but I'm not sure I've ever seen an all original Model T.

 

Just as important as "how many of X were made.", is of course, demand.

And then affordability.

[Lazyboy]

Someone recently told me to beware of forged books. Swore they had seen some. I don't buy it because I haven't seen any, but this source is usually reliable. Is it even possible to counterfeit old books? Practically, is it financially viable? I'm pretty sure I could spot a forgery

 

Everything that is valuable can be forged/counterfeited. How good a fake is another story. A guy around my parts got busted a few months ago for forging fake gold bullion. They found stamping equipment and fake holders/cases/boxes in his home which helped him make all the fakes he was selling across the country to appear as if they had been issued by the Royal Canadian Mint. He was also selling fake Krugerrands.

 

Apart from luring the buyer who doesn't know any better by making the price attractive when compared to what a reputable source selling genuine bullion, the enabler to such scams is usually they they go to some length to make it difficult for the buyer to detect a fake.

 

One thing that has been tried and not yet achieved is finding a way to simulate the density and weight of a gold. So one thing you find that might happen is people off-setting any discrepancy in a troy oz measured bullion by adding the weight on the holder or slab. Different strokes in other hobbies, but the one constant is the matter of making sure you know the ways to spot a fake from real.

 

I wonder if CGC has ever had a forged sub, and if so did they slab it duly noted on the label?

 

If I recall correctly from back in my sports card days, when PSA receives a counterfeit card to grade they destroy the card instead of putting it in a slab.

 

 

That's crazy. Why would they slab that? It should have been returned with a note saying thanks but we can't slab this due to the fact it ain't real.

 

[mrmyst]

No tinfoil is necessary. The facts are that this hobby has, deliberately or not, suppressed the kind of research and historical reference that have been used to correct other hobbies.

 

Google "how many model t's were made" - and you'll find the number somewhere in the 15,000,000 range. I remember as a teen, a friend of the family and his peers touting it was a rare car, but alas, there was no Google, Internet record, or easy access to expertise that could refute the claim.

 

So if you compare what Model T's used to sell for even twenty years ago, you would likely find they have depreciated signficantly, and those examples which have been somewhat resistant to the this aspect of high production, have still gained very, very little in light of how old and significant a place it holds in Ford's history and the way it revolutionized the automotive industry.

 

Can you run a similar search on Hulk 181 or Green Lantern 76? How about a Star Wars 1 35 cent price variant?

 

What's happened instead in this hobby has more to with the magic of the hand being quicker than the eye, and how CGC grading has distracted everyone from asking "how many of X were made."

 

It's a distraction because it's led everyone to the pond or firehose that is preoccupying us with enough drink to only remain concerned with how many copies exist in X grade.

 

My hunch is that if the "true" production/distribution numbers were ever made accessible, we would see a correction in the market far worse than what we see with census padding from CPR or any "warehouse" find.

I don't think it matters how many Model T's were made. What matters is how many are left and how bad people want to own them. Same with GA comics. An all steel all original no rust Model T is an exceedingly rare vehicle, one not many are likely to ever see in their lifetimes. I attend car shows somewhat regularly and I'm not sure I've ever seen one. I've seen restored Model T's that may have incorporated any number of repop aftermarket parts, I've seen steel bodied replicas, but I'm not sure I've ever seen an all original Model T.

 

Just as important as "how many of X were made.", is of course, demand.

And then affordability.

 

Demand could be said to be way more important than how many were made. 505 CGC 9.8 Walking Dead #1s on the census, yet it still continues to sell for $2K. Just one example.

[comicwiz]

Someone recently told me to beware of forged books. Swore they had seen some. I don't buy it because I haven't seen any, but this source is usually reliable. Is it even possible to counterfeit old books? Practically, is it financially viable? I'm pretty sure I could spot a forgery

 

Everything that is valuable can be forged/counterfeited. How good a fake is another story. A guy around my parts got busted a few months ago for forging fake gold bullion. They found stamping equipment and fake holders/cases/boxes in his home which helped him make all the fakes he was selling across the country to appear as if they had been issued by the Royal Canadian Mint. He was also selling fake Krugerrands.

 

Apart from luring the buyer who doesn't know any better by making the price attractive when compared to what a reputable source selling genuine bullion, the enabler to such scams is usually they they go to some length to make it difficult for the buyer to detect a fake.

 

One thing that has been tried and not yet achieved is finding a way to simulate the density and weight of a gold. So one thing you find that might happen is people off-setting any discrepancy in a troy oz measured bullion by adding the weight on the holder or slab. Different strokes in other hobbies, but the one constant is the matter of making sure you know the ways to spot a fake from real.

 

I wonder if CGC has ever had a forged sub, and if so did they slab it duly noted on the label?

 

If I recall correctly from back in my sports card days, when PSA receives a counterfeit card to grade they destroy the card instead of putting it in a slab.

 

 

That's crazy. Why would they slab that? It should have been returned with a note saying thanks but we can't slab this due to the fact it ain't real.

 

They did with mimeographed books, but they also graded ash cans. And then stopped. Or maybe they make exceptions for certain submitters, or based on the significance of the book.

 

Years ago, they returned my Zap 7 mini comix because they claimed they weren't able to determine if it was real.

[bluechip]

I agree with the comment that says it is not CGC's property to destroy, and I'll go one further, it is not their property to stamp. I know this enables possible deception to continue, but that borders on vigilantism. Suppose I had a lot of money in a book, which they then stamped. I then decide to get second and third opinions who say it is genuine. The proper course of action would be to contact the owner and ask them what they would like done with it. I would in fact choose the counterfeit stamp, but if they do not own the book it is not their decision to make. The possibility of counterfitting may make this a legal matter, but CGC are not agents of the law.

 

An interesting "vigilantism" memory.

 

Many years ago prior to the internet I bought a Showcase 4 that was advertised as about fine but trimmed. Asked the guy what that meant and he said someone trimmed off the overhang. It was priced at a discount below fine, which I thought was appropriate. WHen the book arrived I could tell the overhang was trimmed and didn't care all that much, until I opend the book. He had put a big stamp, a HUGE ugly stamp on the inside of the book saying "TRIMMED BOOK." Not just in one place but several, as if to ensure that no one could ever look at the inside cover, front or back, without seeing that stamp.

 

Now, the guy clearly hated that it was trimmed, and wanted to make sure nobody could ever sell it as not trimmed. Beyond that, it seems clear, he wanted to make sure nobody could ever enjoy it, whether or not they minded the book was trimmed. So he deliberately scarred the book forever with ginormous stamps, and didn't think he should be bothered to tell me before he took my money and sent me the book.

 

I mentioned it to a friend, who laughed and then remarked that the seller was, likely, this hobby's equivalent of a father who would scar his own daughter (or even subject her to an "honor killing" if she looked at a boy). I thought that was possibly an extreme comparison, though I wouldn't want to bet my life on it, if we were moved to a remote, village somewhere, exchanging that seller for a devout, rigid shepherd and that Showcase 4 book for a boy-crazy young girl.

 

 

[mrmyst]

Ouch

[mintcollector]

Unfortunately, scarcity and rarity do not matter as much as they should in the marketplace. How many high grade copper books exist? A book like ASM 300 should not be selling for more than (or anywhere near for that matter) $500 in 9.8. This is just insane. I had one person tell me that Wolverine #1 in 9.8 is 'rare' and will always be in demand. This individual is confusing scarcity with demand. While Wolverine #1 may be a popular book, it most certainly will never be rare and it is not a wise investment either.

 

 

[Tony D]

If collectors continue to pursue 9.8 or higher graded modern books with the zeal of Ahab pursuing Moby , CGC has a vested interest in grading new books lower than 9.8. The more submissions trying to attain the coveted 9.8 or higher, the more money CGC makes. They have created an artificial pedigree collection.

[Jaymole]

 

Wait a minute...where does it say on the slab that it is counterfeit???

 

I keep looking and the only.......Oh, now I see it.