Trading Post/PIF/Giving Tree Discussion Thread

[thunsicker]

I won't quit PIF completely because I love the idea. But like others I'm on hiatus until things calm down.

 

I'm divorced with three kids and my ex and I have different child rearing ideas. She likes to shame and harangue the kids to get them to do what they need to do. I like to lead by example and hope they follow my example.

 

I'm honestly not sure which approach gets better results but I definitely see a parallel here. I really don't think people want to be junk donkeys and profit off the PIF thread. I may be wrong, but I will continue to believe in humanity.

[Bird]

I won't quit PIF completely because I love the idea. But like others I'm on hiatus until things calm down.

 

I'm divorced with three kids and my ex and I have different child rearing ideas. She likes to shame and harangue the kids to get them to do what they need to do. I like to lead by example and hope they follow my example.

 

I'm honestly not sure which approach gets better results but I definitely see a parallel here. I really don't think people want to be junk donkeys and profit off the PIF thread. I may be wrong, but I will continue to believe in humanity.

 

We'll said. A community works better with respect at its core, not shaming and demeaning others.

 

We had that for six months in PIF and it was my favorite place on the boards until this weekend.

[Hado]

I won't quit PIF completely because I love the idea. But like others I'm on hiatus until things calm down.

 

I'm divorced with three kids and my ex and I have different child rearing ideas. She likes to shame and harangue the kids to get them to do what they need to do. I like to lead by example and hope they follow my example.

 

I'm honestly not sure which approach gets better results but I definitely see a parallel here. I really don't think people want to be junk donkeys and profit off the PIF thread. I may be wrong, but I will continue to believe in humanity.

 

We'll said. A community works better with respect at its core, not shaming and demeaning others.

 

We had that for six months in PIF and it was my favorite place on the boards until this weekend.

What I've put in bold is what Claudio stated that started this whole thing.

 

Simply saying sarcasm wasn't helping the situation.

[HarveySwick]

No.

 

What started the whole thing was this statement.

 

If no one likes the offers that are up then PLEASE ask the mods to close the thread it lasted long enough and sometimes good things come to an end. No one here can not say I did not try with some nice books. I have no idea why you guy's are so pissed at me but so be it that is life.

LINK

 

No one had attacked topcat. No one had criticized him or his offers. He just threw a fit that no one was claiming his offers and suggested that the entire thread should be closed.

[revat]

No.

 

What started the whole thing was this statement.

 

If no one likes the offers that are up then PLEASE ask the mods to close the thread it lasted long enough and sometimes good things come to an end. No one here can not say I did not try with some nice books. I have no idea why you guy's are so pissed at me but so be it that is life.

LINK

 

No one had attacked topcat. No one had criticized him or his offers. He just threw a fit that no one was claiming his offers and suggested that the entire thread should be closed.

 

I've never understood why people won't put a grade on the comics they offer? I know its not all about 'value', but some if not most people prefer to know what they're getting, or at the minimum the back cover ain't all marked up, especially if pics aren't great. Not everyone knows about every comic, doesn't hurt to 'sell' a bit, even if its 'free'.

[comix4fun]

I won't quit PIF completely because I love the idea. But like others I'm on hiatus until things calm down.

 

I'm divorced with three kids and my ex and I have different child rearing ideas. She likes to shame and harangue the kids to get them to do what they need to do. I like to lead by example and hope they follow my example.

 

I'm honestly not sure which approach gets better results but I definitely see a parallel here. I really don't think people want to be junk donkeys and profit off the PIF thread. I may be wrong, but I will continue to believe in humanity.

 

 

 

Well, these aren't children (chronologically), they are adults. If they haven't figured out how to give and get in proportion in a thread like that, where the intention is clear, then it's not an accident and it's not something they are going to learn on their own.

 

It's not a bad thing to believe in humanity, but it's also not a bad thing to believe that humanity is held together by those vocal enough to point which direction is true north when so many internal compasses just seem to spin.

 

Honestly, there are several people (myself included) that have tried repeatedly to show the way, to light the path, to enlighten the dimly lit, as it pertains to what it means to Pay it Forward. Either people are truly working on a single synapse (unlikely) or simply in it for what they can take (good examples set be damned).

 

Sadly, there are many many people that I come into contact with on a daily basis (in here and out there) that are in it for what they can get out of it for themselves and little else. The less chance they are confronted on such behavior the greater chance they will indulge their inner Smaug. Being a good person and hoping other people are good because you showed them you are good doesn't stand much chance of working on its own given how persistent and dominant the navel-gazing gene is in so many people.

 

The carrot is great...the stick should be brought along just in case.

[Hado]

Well put comix

[Griff]

As with all of us that are new to PIF and have a relatively limited pocket book. We are all going to worry that are offers are not good enough.

 

Personally I try to make sure my offers are worth 50-100 to make sure Im giving value back. I also only take offers that I plan on A:) keeping or B:) giving away as gifts for friends. these two things have kept me out of trouble.

 

I know I can not compete with Shadows vault of books "Man you got some good stuff :)" or Bird OA offers "thanks again for my very first piece of OA Bird, I'm getting it framed this coming weekend" But "and this is the key"

 

I put thought and effort into my PIFS. I try and make sure that who ever looks at the offers knows that. that it is obvious I am making the effort.

 

So where do we go from here? well we could implement more rules.... But honestly they will just get skirted by Donkeys looking to make a buck.

We could maybe have a vote to kick Donkeys out of the thread... but how would that work and who would get to vote?

 

I think the solution I like best is this one

 

Rule XXXX

"The person on the hot seat has the right to refuse to give his pay it forward to up to two individuals in a 1 week period"

 

Probably needs a Forum lawyer type to make it worded more correctly but that could work.

just my thoughts

[Doktor]

Yeah, I've failed to really "sell" my offers the last few times under the assumption that everyone knew what they were or because I failed to disclose condition assuming that everyone would assume that some of the moderns were all in NM (read once & bagged/boarded) and that's probably at least a little bit of why they didn't fly.

 

Plus, I was going more from the "I enjoyed the read, it's a self-contained story & I want to share it with someone" approach than from the "it's valuable" approach. But I also tried to at least add some more "valuable" things in too.

 

I'm at the point where I'm going to take a hiatus from the thread too, if for no other reason than to accumulate a few more "valuable" offers to throw out there in the future.

[Hado]

When did the term 'hot seat' start?

 

Seems if that's how you feel when it's your turn to freely give, you may not be in the right frame of mind.

[HarveySwick]

When I started the Giving Tree thread, I thought the great part of the thread would be the level of moderation and rules that were constructed to prevent donkeys from taking advantage of the generosity of others.

 

What really ended up being the good to come out of the entire thread - RAK's. "Random Acts of Kindness" They were just side "offers" of free stuff. Anything. One person even offered up blankets for infants. It seemed to really bring the community together and people were really caring to give. People were just offering up free things to the community and that seemed to invoke the "spirit of PIF".

 

Unfortunately, even then people started on anything and everything. Behind the scenes, I had to awkwardly PM some individuals and actually say - "maybe you should pump the brakes on claiming everything that is offered up." Do you realize how awkward that is? That you actually have to tell a grown person - maybe you let the other people claim something. I felt like I was telling a kid "save some cookies for everyone else in the class."

 

I think certain members of our community don't even realize they have this "me me me" mentality and think that it's acceptable behavior.

[Griff]

Dunno that's whats its been called since I started PIF'ing. I am personally kinda looking forward to my next trip to the hotseat I have a fun idea for PIF I wanna give try

 

I still think the right of refusal rule would solve a lot of that "my previous post in this topic"

 

BTW the Griffin family motto is this "and that explains why I enjoy the PIF thread"

 

Always give more than you take

Always take less than you need

Trust in providence to make up the difference

 

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone thought the same way

[HarveySwick]

Always give more than you take

Always take less than you need

Trust in providence to make up the difference

 

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone thought the same way

[Doktor]

Yeah. I don't get that. I mean, I know that it happens & everything, but I just don't understand the mentality. I'm a complete narcissist but even I don't care that much about grabbing everything out there that I would keep throwing out a on everything that looked even slightly appetizing.

 

That just seems ridiculous. If for no other reason that moderation gets you more in the end And why you'd have to tell grown- adults to "maybe calm the **** down a little, buddy" is even more ridiculous to me.

 

Maybe it's because I've spent some time involved in the car community too, where giving away something is rare & you sure as hell don't take it if it doesn't fit your car or isn't better than the thing you already have for your car. So being discriminating in what I would take or let pass comes along with that.

 

But I guess when everyone has want-lists that stretch into the hundreds or thousands of items or need a way to open up more inventory, free is hard to beat & greed starts kicking in. Doesn't excuse it, but I guess it makes it more understandable.

 

Maybe this might be a good time for me to post an RAK in the PIF thread just to maybe add some good vibes back into the thread after all the ugliness recently.

 

[thunsicker]

No.

 

What started the whole thing was this statement.

 

If no one likes the offers that are up then PLEASE ask the mods to close the thread it lasted long enough and sometimes good things come to an end. No one here can not say I did not try with some nice books. I have no idea why you guy's are so pissed at me but so be it that is life.

LINK

 

No one had attacked topcat. No one had criticized him or his offers. He just threw a fit that no one was claiming his offers and suggested that the entire thread should be closed.

 

I've never understood why people won't put a grade on the comics they offer? I know its not all about 'value', but some if not most people prefer to know what they're getting, or at the minimum the back cover ain't all marked up, especially if pics aren't great. Not everyone knows about every comic, doesn't hurt to 'sell' a bit, even if its 'free'.

 

Something I totally agree with. If you're posting a run of a comic that I don't know about let me know what its importance is. If you're posting some trades let me know why its a good read. If you're posting some books about collecting let me know what insights it gave you. Lets have more "selling" in the PIF thread.

[1Cool]

I was curious so I asked Ma and Pa if they spit on anyone coming home from Vietnam. Ma said "heck no" and Pa said "not it". I believe them so you can mark them off the list of possible offenders.

[vaillant]

Harvey is right, it was topcat’s post which – righteously – caused tech's reaction and even if he worded the criticism boldly I do believe overall he remained respectful. He even stated that he gave topcat credit for not "taking advantage" of the offers, so the thing started. My "dispute" with Harvey was just nested within this, as I simplified Meeklo's case (not knowing all the details) and then Meeklo himself, CAHokie and Harvey presented me with all the facts.

Aside from each single case, which I say are different (and I wasn’t specifically defending Meeklo just for the sake of it, I just know how he feels about the thing and his good will in improving) I remarked just afterward what I did not like about the attitude, but I can surely agree with the criticism.

The end point to me is how, and in which way, one takes criticism. It is obvious that’s more bound that even a poorly educated person – but with little or no malice – would take sarcasm or attacks NOT in a good way.

 

And this brings me to Harvey's comment, which I think is important:

 

Unfortunately, even then people started on anything and everything. Behind the scenes, I had to awkwardly PM some individuals and actually say - "maybe you should pump the brakes on claiming everything that is offered up." Do you realize how awkward that is? That you actually have to tell a grown person - maybe you let the other people claim something. I felt like I was telling a kid "save some cookies for everyone else in the class."

 

To me the problem is that more than often, especially today, a grown person is not necessarily a mature person, and honestly I do believe everyone can get more and mature only if he accepts to see his limits. Attaining and exercising humility also requires time, aside from the right or wrongs one may or may not have done.

 

So I wasn’t obviously criticizing your efforts (I hope it is crystal clear by now) – it’s just that, as hard one might try, if one is unable or does not want to see, he will not see or accept, not even the most natural and self-evident of things.

 

There is never a clear solution, I am just uplifted by thunsicker's attitude – I am not saying education (be it concerning children or poorly educated adults) is something easily solvable just by good will, but I would say the means of reproach can’t stem from univocal assumptions.

You can have a good inclined person accepting a badly expressed reproach, but you can also have a badly inclined person refusing a polite and straightforward reproach, so there is no universal solution, but I believe talking about this is always useful, and if one wants to see, there is a lot to learn from these confrontations, and not only by the "donkey-minded", which nonetheless are the more interested party.

[jaeldubyoo]

No.

 

What started the whole thing was this statement.

 

If no one likes the offers that are up then PLEASE ask the mods to close the thread it lasted long enough and sometimes good things come to an end. No one here can not say I did not try with some nice books. I have no idea why you guy's are so pissed at me but so be it that is life.

LINK

 

No one had attacked topcat. No one had criticized him or his offers. He just threw a fit that no one was claiming his offers and suggested that the entire thread should be closed.

 

I've never understood why people won't put a grade on the comics they offer? I know its not all about 'value', but some if not most people prefer to know what they're getting, or at the minimum the back cover ain't all marked up, especially if pics aren't great. Not everyone knows about every comic, doesn't hurt to 'sell' a bit, even if its 'free'.

 

Something I totally agree with. If you're posting a run of a comic that I don't know about let me know what its importance is. If you're posting some trades let me know why its a good read. If you're posting some books about collecting let me know what insights it gave you. Lets have more "selling" in the PIF thread.

 

More info is better. (thumbs u

 

 

 

[HarveySwick]

I simplified Meeklo's case (not knowing all the details)

 

THIS was my issue with what you posted Claudio and led to my sarcastic response. You had proclaimed that no one had any right to call Meeklo a junk donkey in "ANY WAY". It felt like you were dismissing valid allegations by others and insulting to the several people that had been wronged by him. Especially since Meeklo was candid and admitted that he wronged some. It felt like you were saying - I've had good dealings with Meeklo on a personal level so you're all wrong in your opinions.

 

I stated that you made blanket statements. It's an all-encompassing statement, that is not strictly true. For example: 'Everyone likes ice-cream'.

 

People read what you write and some that haven't been in the thread long and like you may believe what you've said as the truth. It was a misguided statement based on your own dealings and it frustrated me. You were making a conclusory statement without having all of the information. Did I lay into you and explain how you were completely wrong? No. I made a short, sarcastic response. Would me laying out Meeklo's prior transgressions from the start have been the better alternative?

[spidrvacc]

Most people unfortunatley are always looking for a way to get over and only care about themselves. Again there are good people . I was just reading an article yesterday about a woman who hired another women for a job knowing she was a good match (she thought) for a kidney transplant. SHe wasnt BUT was a match for another person on the list and she gave it to that person who by getting the transplant opened up the perfect kidney for the original person who hired her. As soon as the boss woman got the transplant she fired the women who she needed the transplant for. Seems she was just grooming her for the transplant. Seemed like she was being a friend hiring her but she was just using a human being for a Kidney. People for the most part unfortunately are always out for themselves.

 

Thought this thread was cool and I hope the nature of the thread, the point of PIF is evident and hope it does not get abused, Unfortunate that it seems that it was.