CGC or CGG

[topofthetotem]

do you think you got value ( a quality service) for your dollar?

[Jeffreykli]

O.K., so I just received my first submission back from PGX. Overall, their grading of mid grade GA books seemed fairly similar to CGC's. A couple of books came back lower than I expected, but that happens to me all the time with CGC. The highest grade I received was a 7.0, even though I was expecting a couple of 7.5's. However, the major difference (as noted by other posters before) is the page quality. I was shocked to see only one book come back as C-OW, another 12 were OW, 2 OW-W, and about 8 had White Pages.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that if I had submitted these books to CGC, half of them would've come back with C-OW pages, and none with White pages. So what gives.

 

Did you suspect or know if any of the books had restoration?

[BassGMan]

O.K., so I just received my first submission back from PGX. Overall, their grading of mid grade GA books seemed fairly similar to CGC's. A couple of books came back lower than I expected, but that happens to me all the time with CGC. The highest grade I received was a 7.0, even though I was expecting a couple of 7.5's. However, the major difference (as noted by other posters before) is the page quality. I was shocked to see only one book come back as C-OW, another 12 were OW, 2 OW-W, and about 8 had White Pages.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that if I had submitted these books to CGC, half of them would've come back with C-OW pages, and none with White pages. So what gives.

 

In the past I had also received a higher number of "white page" books than in my CGC submissions. But one important thing to remember, no one said that these two companies use the same scale to measure paper color. PGX may be easier on paper than CGC, but who is to say which one is correct. Neither is "correct" as there is no absolute scale that both must follow, unless maybe it is the OWL card. I've sent in books to CGC that I bought brand new, possessed the same kind of paper, bought at the same time and stored the exact same way, and some came back OW/W and some W. In those cases I think CGC was too harsh on the books that did not receive White page status. It all boils down to which company you prefer when considering price, grading, resto detection ability and customer service. But I really cannot say that one is right and one is wrong unless it is a matter of catching resto or not.

[skybolt]

O.K., so I just received my first submission back from PGX. Overall, their grading of mid grade GA books seemed fairly similar to CGC's. A couple of books came back lower than I expected, but that happens to me all the time with CGC. The highest grade I received was a 7.0, even though I was expecting a couple of 7.5's. However, the major difference (as noted by other posters before) is the page quality. I was shocked to see only one book come back as C-OW, another 12 were OW, 2 OW-W, and about 8 had White Pages.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that if I had submitted these books to CGC, half of them would've come back with C-OW pages, and none with White pages. So what gives.

 

Did you suspect or know if any of the books had restoration?

 

Most of the books were purchased from major dealers like Metro, Four Color, Bedrock City, etc. as unrestored. Is it possible that both them and PGX missed a very small amount of color touch or something minor like that, I guess there's always a possibility.

 

The only reason I sent these books to PGX is because a few were rejected by CGC for overhang, or because they were mid-grade and not worth that much (less than $150 each). Since I like slabbing GA books, I figured that it's worth trying PGX because of the shorter wait time. Otherwise, I would have kept them raw, since their value wouldn't change by much if they were slabbed or not.

[skybolt]

do you think you got value ( a quality service) for your dollar?

 

In hindsight, I don't think it was a good move to slab these books from a monetary standpoint. However, I do like having the GA books I want to keep in my collection slabbed. Since I've had about 200 books slabbed by CGC, here's my observation with respect to the two companies:

 

Since I've already mentioned the page quality discrepancy, I won't discuss it further.

 

It seems that PGX deducts less for inerior stains than CGC, but more for spine splits and or detached covers. I had one book come back a 2.0 due to these two issues, even though the cover and interior looked great. CGC might have given it a 3.0 or maybe a GLOD. On the otherhand, CGC hates stains and would have a 6.0 cutoff point for this defect. I received a 7.0 grade from PGX. Other than the interior stain, the book looked like an 8.5.

 

The 7.0 range seems to be exactly the same for both companies. The reason why I say this, is because in both cases, everytime I thought a book was a 7.5, it came back a 7.0. However, PGX seems to be a little more lenient at the 4.0 range. For instance, I purchased 3 books from Harley graded at 2.5 (detached bottom staple), 3.0 and 3.5, but they all came back as 4.0's. However, I will admit that the books had a nice glossy look to them. CGC would've graded them somewhere down the middle. PGX's 5.0 range seems to be a little stiffer than CGC (don't ask me why). Every book that I got back as 5.0, seemed to be at least a 5.5 in my eyes.

 

Overall, I would say the average grade would've been similar if CGC had graded them. If I was shocked with a grade, I would look closely at the book through the slab, and nod my head in agreement that I missed some major flaws during my initial screening. I feel the same way with the CGC graded books.

[skybolt]

I agree with your statements, BassGMan.

[skybolt]

As long as I'm discussing CGC/PGX grades, I'll mention how they both rate with respect to different major dealers and GA books.

 

I won't mention the actual books, but I'll give a summary. Due to a lack of books purchased from some major dealers, in no way should these results be taken as the norm:

 

I already mentioned Harley.

 

Metro - On the average their grading matches mine to a tee, but unfortunately the slab grade is usually a half grade lower. In some cases the grades are right on, but typically a 7.5 book will come back as a 7.0 from CGC or PGX. I've purchased many books from them, so obviously I'm not complaining.

 

Superworld - I've only purchased two books from them. Both were advertised as VF-/VF, and they both came back as 6.0. Again, this should not be taken out of context since they were only two books, and I tended to think that they should have received a 7.0 grade.

 

Bedrock City Comics - Same as Metro, but with less purchases.

 

Basement Comics - Purchased a 4.5 and a 5.5 from them, and they came back as 6.0 and 6.5, respectively. Even though their prices are high, I was pleased with the results. I'm not sure what their grading is like on HG books though.

 

Tomorrow's Treasures - I've only purchased one book from them. Initially, they had the book listed as a VF on their website. When I purchased it, the guy gave me a call and said when he actually looked at the book, it was more like a 7.0. He was willing to give me a discount if I still wanted the book.....so I said o.k. The book came back a 7.0 blue label from CGC a few months ago.

 

DTA - I purchased 2 books from him graded at FN. One came back a 5.0, while the other one was a 6.0 from PGX.

 

I still haven't gotten my Four Color, and a majority of the Bedrock City books back from PGX yet. They should arrive in 2 weeks. The Four Color books did look great though.

[topofthetotem]

Will you submit more book through PGX ? or stick with CGC?

I should add if its not for the resale money just for your personal enjoyment

[skybolt]

Will you submit more book through PGX ? or stick with CGC?

I should add if its not for the resale money just for your personal enjoyment

 

I'll probably still submit GA books with overhang to PGX, plus some mid-grade ones. However, if I had decent HG SA collection between 1968 and 1974, I may try out PGX due to their $14 slabbing fee. It's really not worth spending $28 on a HG Defenders comic if doesn't come back a 9.6.

[topofthetotem]

I think I'll try them out on some bronze books maybe even some of the 8.0 I got back from CGC just as a little experiment

[Hobgoblin]

I still for the most part say that I'll send pre-1975 books to CGC, but anything earlier than that, I'll send to PGX simply to save money. I'm not crazy about paying $30 (and waiting 4-6 months) to have a book graded with CGC when I can pay half the cost and wait only a month with PGX. Especially since I wouldn't be looking to sell the book in the first place and would be having it slabbed to showcase it.

[topofthetotem]

I think it would only make sense for key books to cgc where you are trying to make the most off your investment,like taking a Classic car for a $6000.00 paint job not a thousand dollar MACO job

[skybolt]

Plus I did notice several minor label errors with my last PGX submission (wrong year, wrong publisher, etc.). Plus, they don't list the artists name on the label like CGC does. I realize that CGC also makes mistakes, but probably less often. I've submitted over 200 books to CGC, and haven't seen this type of error yet.

[topofthetotem]

Plus I did notice several minor label errors with my last PGX submission (wrong year, wrong publisher, etc.). Plus, they don't list the artists name on the label like CGC does. I realize that CGC also makes mistakes, but probably less often. I've submitted over 200 books to CGC, and haven't seen this type of error yet.

 

I wonder what size this company is are the just dan paterson and a couple of buddies or have the grown or are growing the company with improving quality control

[Comicdey]

Skybolt,

 

So if you were buying comics online, knowing how the two companies now grade, would you adjust your bidding up or down for PGX or CGC?

 

Is the perceived premium that people pay for bronze age CGC over PGX warranted, or should it be reversed?

[skybolt]

Skybolt,

 

So if you were buying comics online, knowing how the two companies now grade, would you adjust your bidding up or down for PGX or CGC?

 

Is the perceived premium that people pay for bronze age CGC over PGX warranted, or should it be reversed?

 

Good question.

 

If I'm purchasing moderns or non-key BA and SA books in HG, I'll probably bid the same way for both PGX and CGC graded books. Same thing with key mid grade SA or GA books that cost less than $250.

 

Anything that costs more than $250, or is a HG key SA or BA, I'll still bid higher on CGC graded books due to the restoration check. I'm still a little spooked by all the PGX stories (whether most are true or not) about them missing color touch, cleaning, staple removal/replacement, etc.

 

Another reason why I wouldn't bid higher on PGX books is whether or not they'll be around in lets say 5 or 6 years. I don't want to run into the problem of having to sell an 8.5 PGX graded Hulk #181 for $1,000 with the label of a company that doesn't exist anymore. The same could happen to CGC in 10/15 years, but at least their reputation is widespread, and I still think people would have some trust in their grading.

 

These days I'm more of GA collector, and would usually pay over guide to get a CGC or PGX book due to their rarity. However, if I want to purchase a copy of ASM #100 in 9.4 condition for $500 (I'm guessing here), I'll probably wait for a CGC copy, unless the PGX one is selling for at least 10 or 20% less. People say that PGX are strictor graders on HG books, but since I haven't submitted any, I can't make that call.

 

As far as submitting books to PGX, here's my criteria for now:

 

Mid grade economy GA and SA books that value less than $150 (even if they're restored, it wouldn't hurt their value too much).

 

Any books with overhang. CGC needs to fix this problem, otherwise people are left with no other choice but to submit to PGX. CGC may think that the number of overhang books is so small that it wouldn't matter, but if I'm submitting 3 overhang books to PGX, I might lump in another 15 or 20 for the heck of it, to save on shipping (these are books that I would've sent to CGC).

 

Books published between 1968 and 1974. Most of these books guide between $10 and $20 in the OS guide. I just don't see a lot of people spending $29 to have them graded unless the books come back as 9.6's or 9.8's. PGX charges $14 to grade SA titles valuing less than $300. If the book comes back a 9.2 or 9.4, at least you'll break even.

 

If we're talking about anything that's worth more than $500, I really wouldn't put too much faith in PGX at this time. I'll let someone else take the plunge first before I jump into the deep water. I can't imagine my 8.0 ASM #1 in a PGX slab. It's value would vary enormously depending on how much faith everyone has in PGX.

[Jeffreykli]

At Wondercon, I got a coupon for 5 free submissions, and I thought I've give PGX a try...basically, some mid grade books, one decent book, and including two that I thought had color touch.

 

I believe that they're restoration detection, at least with color touch, has improved. I have a Superman #199 that CGC graded at 6.5 (old label). Here's what PGX thought about it:

 

 

Old label CGC 6.5, New label PGX 7.0. I think that's well within an acceptable range.

 

One problem I did have with PGX...errors in the labels. Remember, I only sent in 5 books. But, the label to the Spidey #29 came back as this:

 

 

Not completely sure, but the notes are to ASM #28, not ASM #29.

 

All in all, the turnaround time was much better, but personally, I still have some questions about PGX. I liked their email updates, though.

[skybolt]

Did CGC give that Supes #199 a blue or purple label?

[Jeffreykli]

Did CGC give that Supes #199 a blue or purple label?

 

Purple.

 

Apparent FN+ 6.5 Slight (P)

Restoration includes: small amoutn of color touch on cover

OFF-WHITE to WHITE pages.