Buying via ebay vs. established trader? AS1 9.0

[Ian-migration]

Hi

 

I've been looking at adding some nice silver-age comics to my collection, but anything I get must be a good investment with prospects for decent appreciation. On this basis I presume anything I go for must be a 9.0 or above? I'd appreciate thoughts on that - and also whether it's worth trying to get a 'deal' on ebay & taking the risk that I'll be duped with a restoration or fall for some other scam.

 

As an example, AS1 9.0 is currently on ebay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2275077446&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

 

Is CGC really the only way to go?

 

I know there's a thread on CGC v CGG, but do the CGG values hold up against the same book, same grade by CGC.

 

I know there's a lot of questions there, but I'd love to hear some opinions.

Thanks.

Ian

[ericc123]

Make it a rule to only buy books that arn't CGC graded for say $200....you'll be glad you did. Any book that is the level of the Amazing Spider-Man #1 on ebay is a high risk for scams or just overzelous grading. If you don't want to buy a CGC book I highly advise you only buying from highly reputable dealers....if you do a search on the board you'll get the names of many. Stick to these rules and you'll be must better off trust me. You don't know that guy on ebay from a hole in the ground and if you buy that issue more likely then not you'll regret it.

 

Eric

[Ian-migration]

Thanks for the advice.

 

Any thoughts on buying CGG rather than CGC (I mean in terms of investment possibilities, I appreciate that there is ongoing debate about the pros & cons of storing books long-term via CGG/CGC).

[sfilosa]

People don't like the term "Investment" and "Comics" in the same sentence.

 

Since NOTHING is a sure bet investment, the best thing to do is to buy books BELOW CURRENT MARKET VALUE.

 

Do lots of research, establish a good reputation with other sellers, and watch all the websites (eBay, ComicLink, PedigreeComics, etc.) for new listing.

[Aces]

I would be wary of buying any big dollar book from someone I've never heard of off eBay even if slabbed.

[143ksk]

Did you read his description?

 

Why hasn't this this comic been CGC'd? Well actually it has been graded by CGC on 3 seperate occassions seperated by a 15 month period. The first time i sent it to them it came back with an 8.5 rating which was well below what i thought it would be. I took it to my local comic dealer and he said that he agreed that it should be higher. I took it out of the case and sent it back. This time it came back as a 9.2. Now i for one know that a comic does not go up in quality. I decided to try one more time and it came back a 9.0. After all of this I decided that it would be best to sell the comic as it is, a NM copy and not on the merits of a company that cant grade consistantly.

[chrisco37]

Did you read his description?

 

Why hasn't this this comic been CGC'd? Well actually it has been graded by CGC on 3 seperate occassions seperated by a 15 month period. The first time i sent it to them it came back with an 8.5 rating which was well below what i thought it would be. I took it to my local comic dealer and he said that he agreed that it should be higher. I took it out of the case and sent it back. This time it came back as a 9.2. Now i for one know that a comic does not go up in quality. I decided to try one more time and it came back a 9.0. After all of this I decided that it would be best to sell the comic as it is, a NM copy and not on the merits of a company that cant grade consistantly.

 

That's actually quite a bit in grading fees. ASM #1 would be a walk-thru book. Why in the world would he send a 9.2 back??? This can't be legit, can it?

[garthgantu]

Well, there ARE some serious knuckleheads out there, so who knows?

 

I like this line from his descriptor:

The condition of this comic is very short of perfect.

 

I'm guessing that if in fact the guy sent it to CGC three times, or even once, it must have come back in with a PLOD. That's a far more likely reason to de-slab and re-slab multiple times.

[jbud73]

Hi

 

I've been looking at adding some nice silver-age comics to my collection, but anything I get must be a good investment with prospects for decent appreciation. On this basis I presume anything I go for must be a 9.0 or above? I'd appreciate thoughts on that - and also whether it's worth trying to get a 'deal' on ebay & taking the risk that I'll be duped with a restoration or fall for some other scam.

 

As an example, AS1 9.0 is currently on ebay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2275077446&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

 

Is CGC really the only way to go?

 

I know there's a thread on CGC v CGG, but do the CGG values hold up against the same book, same grade by CGC.

 

I know there's a lot of questions there, but I'd love to hear some opinions.

Thanks.

Ian

 

Considering you opening statements I think there are a lot of people on here who would tell you that your $$$ are better spent elsewhere. The appreciation of HG SA may show well in the OS, but people are not buying at OS prices I can tell you that. To put it in perspective if a 9.4 book guides at 10K - you would have a very hard time purchasing that book for 10K slabbed in 9.4, so you must factor in the appreciation value rate based on market as well as guide forces. If nothing this should make you even more wary when purchasing HG SA and take the advise listed above if you wish to entertain the purchases of this sort.

[nik]

That's actually quite a bit in grading fees. ASM #1 would be a walk-thru book. Why in the world would he send a 9.2 back??? This can't be legit, can it?

 

Why in the world whould he not have scans of the card/label from CGC when he resubmitted it. Would that not show more credit of proof as opposed to what he is saying?

[Solar]

It's also funny that he would be so adamantly anti-CGC in the description, yet show pics of a book still in the slab (clearly visible in the pic of the back cover).

 

This is a total scam. The winning bidder would be lucky to even get a restored 9.0.

[Aman619]

Im redaing quickly I guess, but HG comics have always sold for more than Guide. So as the Guide increased, so have street prices. So if one wants to calculate the price increases over time, yeah, Guide is irrelevant to "reality", Maybe thats all you are saying. It read to me that one could not assume that a rising Guide price equates to an actual rise in th ecomics selling prices. It does, just not at the same exact % increase.

[jbud73]

Im redaing quickly I guess, but HG comics have always sold for more than Guide. So as the Guide increased, so have street prices. So if one wants to calculate the price increases over time, yeah, Guide is irrelevant to "reality", Maybe thats all you are saying. It read to me that one could not assume that a rising Guide price equates to an actual rise in th ecomics selling prices. It does, just not at the same exact % increase.

 

What I was implying is that if you buy a HG silver comic now that guides for 10K, you might actually have to pay 3-5x guide to actually aquire it. So the your into the book for 300-500% of its guide value. So if it appreciates at a rate of 15-20 % a year - the guide value will not catch up to the current market value for a number of years.

 

The catch is that right now the market is extremely strong and its hard to say exactly what the true market value will be in 5-10 years. Which relates to my overall implication that the OS appreciation rates need to be taken with a grain of salt. In all its a pared down version of the arguement the macro economic argeument that Gene and others have posited about comics as investment potential and just how risky a venture they can be given the slow and steady projections of the OS which do not take into consideration as well as they could the volatility of the comic market.

[shrunkenhead]

Ian, in response to your question about CGC vs. CGG (which is now PGA), it's my experience that PGA books don't fare well at all on ebay. They're simply not as "liquid." This is primarily because PGA's restoration detection is simply not as astute as that of CGC's. I personally wouldn't buy a PGA book off of ebay with the intention of reselling it unless I first uncorked it and sent it off to CGC.

 

That's not to say that CGC will (or should) always have a monopoly on the grading game. But until someone with the credentials gives the some real competition, that's the way it is right now.

[Ian-migration]

Thanks for the tips!

[blazingbob]

You get what you pay for.

[Forbush-Man]

Buy from Reputable Dealers who accept returns for any reason. Talk with them, in advance, if they don't normally accept returns on CGC books.

 

If you buy off ebay, always read the seller's feedback first. Check the percent of positives. Contact them about a return policy if none is stated and keep the response for future reference if the deal goes sour. Ebay motto: If it looks too good to be true, walk away (no, run away!) from it.

 

[Aman619]

Im redaing quickly I guess, but HG comics have always sold for more than Guide. So as the Guide increased, so have street prices. So if one wants to calculate the price increases over time, yeah, Guide is irrelevant to "reality", Maybe thats all you are saying. It read to me that one could not assume that a rising Guide price equates to an actual rise in th ecomics selling prices. It does, just not at the same exact % increase.

 

What I was implying is that if you buy a HG silver comic now that guides for 10K, you might actually have to pay 3-5x guide to actually aquire it. So the your into the book for 300-500% of its guide value. So if it appreciates at a rate of 15-20 % a year - the guide value will not catch up to the current market value for a number of years.

 

The catch is that right now the market is extremely strong and its hard to say exactly what the true market value will be in 5-10 years. Which relates to my overall implication that the OS appreciation rates need to be taken with a grain of salt. In all its a pared down version of the arguement the macro economic argeument that Gene and others have posited about comics as investment potential and just how risky a venture they can be given the slow and steady projections of the OS which do not take into consideration as well as they could the volatility of the comic market.

 

I see your point, and Guide prices and market prices are two separate sets of stats. BUT - - comics have always sold for more than guide in HG, so there has been and still is a relationship between them. So its fair to plot Guide price increases over years to demonstrate an increasing market. But the numbers will not be exact, that is, if the Guide increased 10% over 10 years, market prices may have increased 5% or 30%. What is true that with a few exceptions of suoer heated spec books over the years, nearly ALL comics have continually increased in price over time

 

What will happen after this recent super run-up in prices is anyones guess...