Broken slab posts v. posts that CGC never secured before leaving its facility?

[Mishmashman]

I bought a slab from a pretty reputable dealer recently and when I received it, I noticed that two of the four posts were completely loose. The two loose posts were both on the same side--top and bottom. I doubt the dealer broke open the slab and somehow slipped in a different book without wrinkling the replacement book severely (the two posts on the other side are secure), though you never know.

 

Is there any way to tell whether the posts were broken open by someone, and thus tampered with, or simply not fastened by CGC when the slab left their facilities?

 

I've personally never cracked a book open, so I don't know what broken posts would look like. I've attached photos of the slab in question. Thanks for your help!

 

Top:

 

Bottom:

 

 

[Mark 1]

Return it

[bug33fouf]

Re-slab

[Sqeggs]

Re-slab

 

With the posts broken, it would have to be regraded.

 

I would send it back to the dealer.

[mschmidt]

Re-slab

 

With the posts broken, it would have to be regraded.

 

I would send it back to the dealer.

 

+1

 

Return it.

[Tony S]

Just because something can be done does not mean it was done. But I've cracked open 100's of slabs and you can most certainly slip a book out with two posts on the same side popped open.

 

I would assume that anyone intending to fraud a seller by swapping out a book would be sensible enough to try to repair the posts afterwards. But the book may not be eligible for a reholder. You wouldn't know for sure until CGC inspected the book.

 

I suggest you contact the dealer and discuss it with them and the discussion should be based on what you want. If you want the book - and I assume you do since you bought it - you could ask the dealer to get the book reholdered and returned to you. The dealer could probably just send you a CGC invoice already filled out for reholdering that book. You mail the book straight to CGC. The charges would go to the dealer's account and he/she can reimburse you for postage costs to CGC.

 

If CGC feels the book was not tampered with they will reholder it and you'd get it back fairly quickly. If CGC feels it has to be regraded then you and the dealer could work it out based on what the regrade came back as.

 

If you are not overall happy with the book right now - holder issues aside - then just return it and look for another copy.

[mschmidt]

Just because something can be done does not mean it was done. But I've cracked open 100's of slabs and you can most certainly slip a book out with two posts on the same side popped open.

 

I would assume that anyone intending to fraud a seller by swapping out a book would be sensible enough to try to repair the posts afterwards. But the book may not be eligible for a reholder. You wouldn't know for sure until CGC inspected the book.

 

I suggest you contact the dealer and discuss it with them and the discussion should be based on what you want. If you want the book - and I assume you do since you bought it - you could ask the dealer to get the book reholdered and returned to you. The dealer could probably just send you a CGC invoice already filled out for reholdering that book. You mail the book straight to CGC. The charges would go to the dealer's account and he/she can reimburse you for postage costs to CGC.

 

If CGC feels the book was not tampered with they will reholder it and you'd get it back fairly quickly. If CGC feels it has to be regraded then you and the dealer could work it out based on what the regrade came back as.

 

If you are not overall happy with the book right now - holder issues aside - then just return it and look for another copy.

 

It has 2 posts cracked, so it's going to be an automatic regrade - it wouldn't qualify for a reholder.

[Mishmashman]

Does anyone know how posts are secured at CGC? I understand that they use some high pressure mechanism to fasten the posts?

[VintageComics]

Does anyone know how posts are secured at CGC? I understand that they use some high pressure mechanism to fasten the posts?

 

Sonic weld.

 

Ultra high speed vibration causes the plastic to melt and weld.

 

 

[comicwiz]

The posts pop-out cleanly at times with minimal effort, appearing as though they had never forcibly been breached. Especially on old label slabs. As long as the barex inner well is still sealed, there is no need to regrade, just reholder.

[mschmidt]

The posts pop-out cleanly at times with minimal effort, appearing as though they had never forcibly been breached. Especially on old label slabs. As long as the barex inner well is still sealed, there is no need to regrade, just reholder.

 

That isn't correct. If 2 or more posts are cracked, it's a regrade.

[Mark 1]

 

[Bomber-Bob]

The posts pop-out cleanly at times with minimal effort, appearing as though they had never forcibly been breached. Especially on old label slabs. As long as the barex inner well is still sealed, there is no need to regrade, just reholder.

 

That isn't correct. If 2 or more posts are cracked, it's a regrade.

 

This is a fact, it's a regrade. I would submit it via the dealer in case anything unexpected happens.

[comicwiz]

The posts pop-out cleanly at times with minimal effort, appearing as though they had never forcibly been breached. Especially on old label slabs. As long as the barex inner well is still sealed, there is no need to regrade, just reholder.

 

That isn't correct. If 2 or more posts are cracked, it's a regrade.

 

Are you a staffer? If not, they should consider it because I've been told differently when I had this same issue about a year back. Maybe that's a way to also close the loop on misinformation.

 

You also seem to answer quicker than their ask CGC section, and usually in a defensive manner, so from now on should we just ask you?

[mschmidt]

The posts pop-out cleanly at times with minimal effort, appearing as though they had never forcibly been breached. Especially on old label slabs. As long as the barex inner well is still sealed, there is no need to regrade, just reholder.

 

That isn't correct. If 2 or more posts are cracked, it's a regrade.

 

Are you a staffer? If not, they should consider it because I've been told differently when I had this same issue about a year back. Maybe that's a way to also close the loop on misinformation.

 

You also seem to answer quicker than their ask CGC section, and usually in a defensive manner, so from now on should we just ask you?

 

Defensive? I simply pointed out that what you were saying was incorrect :shrug:

 

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

[comicwiz]

The posts pop-out cleanly at times with minimal effort, appearing as though they had never forcibly been breached. Especially on old label slabs. As long as the barex inner well is still sealed, there is no need to regrade, just reholder.

 

That isn't correct. If 2 or more posts are cracked, it's a regrade.

 

Are you a staffer? If not, they should consider it because I've been told differently when I had this same issue about a year back. Maybe that's a way to also close the loop on misinformation.

 

You also seem to answer quicker than their ask CGC section, and usually in a defensive manner, so from now on should we just ask you?

 

Defensive? I simply pointed out that what you were saying was incorrect :shrug:

 

Not here, but generally speaking.

 

Anyhow, I had a sig series book with two breached posts and was told it didn't need to be regraded as long as the inner well was still sealed (that included the label) which is why I find what you are saying unusual.

 

I made especially certain there was no confusion on what I was asking because I was concerned the witnessed sig would be voided if regraded.

 

Maybe the person working at CGC who responded to my inquiry didn't know better?

[mschmidt]

The posts pop-out cleanly at times with minimal effort, appearing as though they had never forcibly been breached. Especially on old label slabs. As long as the barex inner well is still sealed, there is no need to regrade, just reholder.

 

That isn't correct. If 2 or more posts are cracked, it's a regrade.

 

Are you a staffer? If not, they should consider it because I've been told differently when I had this same issue about a year back. Maybe that's a way to also close the loop on misinformation.

 

You also seem to answer quicker than their ask CGC section, and usually in a defensive manner, so from now on should we just ask you?

 

Defensive? I simply pointed out that what you were saying was incorrect :shrug:

 

Not here, but generally speaking.

 

I had a sig series book with two breached posts and was told it didn't need to regraded as long as the inner well was still sealed (that included the label) which is why I find what you are saying unusual.

 

Maybe the person working at CGC who responded to my inquiry didn't know better?

 

Seems like you either got some misinformation (or the person you were talking to misunderstood your question). The label isn't sealed with the inner well which is why CGC would never accept just the inner well for a reholder. If 2 or more posts have been popped, it's fairly easy to slide the entire book out - hence the need for a regrade.

[comicwiz]

Maybe misinformed, but I couldn't be any clearer when I asked.

 

The inner well is divided into a recessed well for the book, and a pocket for the label. There is a seam dividing the two areas, and the opening for the label is sealed at the top. In addition, the seams for the right and left outer edges of the well cross over the label, so swapping a label would require the top seal opened (breach) and even if you could magically slide it out, there would be residue of the label Tblue, purple, green, yellow) melted on the seam.

 

The need to regrade for what is a pretty obvious way to identify tampering of the inner well sounds like a precaution CGC should take on their own dime.

[mschmidt]

Maybe misinformed, but I couldn't be any clearer when I asked.

 

The inner well is divided into a recessed well for the book, and a pocket for the label. There is a seam dividing the two areas, and the opening for the label is sealed at the top. In addition, the seams for the right and left cross over the label, so swapping a label would require the top seal opened (breach) and even if you could magically slide it out, there would be residue of the label Tblue, purple, green, yellow) melted on the seam.

 

The need to regrade for what is a pretty obvious way to identify tampering of the inner well sounds like a precaution CGC should take on their own dime.

 

When I crack books out - which I do fairly often - about half the time, the top label slides out easily without having to crack any seals - which is why it's always been the corner posts and not the inner well that's the distinguishing factor between a reholder and a regrade. Well, if we want to be pedantic about it, a book that shows obvious signs of handling damage will also require a regrade (even if the corner posts haven't been broken).

 

Don't really know how much clearer CGC can get on this:

 

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

 

-----

 

If book is still sealed in inner well with label would it get same grade and only re holder change?

No, if it is removed from the outer well it must be regraded.

 

----

 

Don't believe me? Crack a book out and send the book in the inner well to CGC - there's no chance whatsoever they'd take it as a reholder.

[comicwiz]

Maybe misinformed, but I couldn't be any clearer when I asked.

 

The inner well is divided into a recessed well for the book, and a pocket for the label. There is a seam dividing the two areas, and the opening for the label is sealed at the top. In addition, the seams for the right and left cross over the label, so swapping a label would require the top seal opened (breach) and even if you could magically slide it out, there would be residue of the label Tblue, purple, green, yellow) melted on the seam.

 

The need to regrade for what is a pretty obvious way to identify tampering of the inner well sounds like a precaution CGC should take on their own dime.

 

When I crack books out - which I do fairly often - about half the time, the top label slides out easily without having to crack any seals - which is why it's always been the corner posts and not the inner well that's the distinguishing factor between a reholder and a regrade. Well, if we want to be pedantic about it, a book that shows obvious signs of handling damage will also require a regrade (even if the corner posts haven't been broken).

 

Don't really know how much clearer CGC can get on this:

 

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

 

-----

 

If book is still sealed in inner well with label would it get same grade and only re holder change?

No, if it is removed from the outer well it must be regraded.

 

----

 

Don't believe me? Crack a book out and send the book in the inner well to CGC - there's no chance whatsoever they'd take it as a reholder.

 

I'm talking strictly about clean post breaks without any mishandling or damage to the comic. On the specific example I'm referring too, I had that colour prism effect which happens when the inner well makes contact with the outer holder, and which looks like gas/oil slick inside the slab.

 

It was near the bottom edge, so I tried to pry open the bottom just wide enough to slide a sheet of paper to separate the well and holder and they popped. So clean I wondered if they had actually been properly seated/welded in the first place

 

On old label books, the label can be removed if you breathe on it too strong, and yes, on those, there is an opening at the top for the label to slide out.

 

Granted, there are several versions of inner wells, so it's possible the one's I've inspected on new label slabs have a sealed top as well to enclose the label, but there may be different versions that don't.

 

In any event, when this happened to me, someone at CGC told me it wasn't necessary to regrade just reholder, so it seems to be one of those policies that can change based on different factors.