And we have a winner...

[Columbia Comics]

New Bats 232

 

Changed the grading to "VG+/F"

[Meeklo]

That's the downside of ebay. They always side with the buyer.

 

The fact that the seller says "in his opinion" and gives you a decent pic to look at to judge for yourself (minus a back cover) should keep him in the clear. It is up to the buyer then to judge whether or not they believe the book to be in the condition they want. If it is not, then you do not buy it. By buying it, you agree that it is in a suitable condition for you. Be reneging on that, you cost the seller time and money back.

 

Now on this site, I've learned to be lenient with this idea. (Thanks Hector!) I try to be thorough in describing the condition they are in. If it is a key book, I'll even try to list the defects I see. But everyone here (for the most part) are die hard collectors. We all know this hobby very well. And as long as I'm as up front as possible, there should not be any problems. If there are problems, I'm more open to offering a refund.

 

Ebay is another animal entirely. Not every on there is as die hard as we are. Some just want to complain and scam, which can also leave people skeptical as to why the is a case open.

 

In this case, I'm not saying the buyer is wrong, but I do not fully believe the seller is wrong either. This is just a case of what happens when you chose to do business on ebay.

 

I also do not agree with their return policy, the sellers should have some way to defend themselves. I had an issue with ebay where I sold an iPhone and the buyer said it wasn't how I described (he wanted to unlock it and I told him that model could be unlocked but he didn't know how so he reported it) and he wanted his money back. I told him no, that he should have figured that out before buying and that I'm not wasting anymore time and money on it. He opened the case and ebay refunded him but he mailed the phone off to the wrong address. I never got it back and ebay was going to charge me for the phone. I told them no and managed to work my way to a person who decided to drop the case and just be out the money. I should have been able to tell the buyer "no" to begin with and save all that time and effort.

[quicksilver]

I agrre, it looks F+, but up close, it's really not - so much surface wear it ends up being about VG+. It's like taking a scan of a book with a sub crease that doesn't show in the scan, I've had that happen before.

[MR SigS]

Can't imagine anyone buying off ebay without reading the description (unless there isn't any).

 

if you can't imagine people buying off ebay without reading a description then you lack imagination.

 

 

:confused:

 

It only makes sense to read everything before plunking down money. Like maybe the title can't accomodate all the details, esp. if it's not brand new.

 

I totally agree with this because there are sellers like you out there. I wish you weren't afraid to give us your eBay username.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I have almost...*almost*...bought from sellers who say "My grade is my opinion, and if you don't agree, too bad, you're stuck with it" solely to demonstrate to them the facts. And one of those is this: if you sell on eBay, you must take returns if a buyer wants to return the item, and claims the item is not as described.

 

Suck it up, eBay sellers. Accept it. And learn how to grade.

 

The "no returns allowed" sellers are causing themselves unnecessary grief.

 

Expecting a buyer to "judge from the pictures" doesn't fly. A buyer cannot hold the item in their hands and inspect it for themselves. The seller CAN, and is therefore responsible for an accurate description. No picture/scan shows everything, and there are things which simply cannot be known outside of personal inspection.

 

And excuses of any kind ("I am not a professional grader", "grade is only my opinion", "grading is subjective") fail, too. If you can't grade, don't assign a grade and take lots of pictures that clearly show the flaws. Describe everything. And if you do grade, stand behind it, and if the buyer doesn't agree, consider it the cost of doing business and take it back.

 

 

 

[Dr. Balls]

A buyer cannot hold the item in their hands and inspect it for themselves. The seller CAN, and is therefore responsible for an accurate description.

 

That pretty much sums it up right there. I try to take notes of things on the book that can't be seen or are hard to see in the scan, but are readily identifyable once you are looking at it in-hand.

[Sal]

I have almost...*almost*...bought from sellers who say "My grade is my opinion, and if you don't agree, too bad, you're stuck with it" solely to demonstrate to them the facts. And one of those is this: if you sell on eBay, you must take returns if a buyer wants to return the item, and claims the item is not as described.

 

Suck it up, eBay sellers. Accept it. And learn how to grade.

 

The "no returns allowed" sellers are causing themselves unnecessary grief.

 

Expecting a buyer to "judge from the pictures" doesn't fly. A buyer cannot hold the item in their hands and inspect it for themselves. The seller CAN, and is therefore responsible for an accurate description. No picture/scan shows everything, and there are things which simply cannot be known outside of personal inspection.

 

And excuses of any kind ("I am not a professional grader", "grade is only my opinion", "grading is subjective") fail, too. If you can't grade, don't assign a grade and take lots of pictures that clearly show the flaws. Describe everything. And if you do grade, stand behind it, and if the buyer doesn't agree, consider it the cost of doing business and take it back.

 

 

 

In my opinion, the book is Near Mint, and unfortunately these fuzzy pictures are all I am able to supply as I don't have a scanner and my phone/camera/scrying device sort of sucks. Caveat Emptor!

[quicksilver]

That's the downside of ebay. They always side with the buyer.

 

The fact that the seller says "in his opinion" and gives you a decent pic to look at to judge for yourself (minus a back cover) should keep him in the clear. It is up to the buyer then to judge whether or not they believe the book to be in the condition they want. If it is not, then you do not buy it. By buying it, you agree that it is in a suitable condition for you. Be reneging on that, you cost the seller time and money.

 

Let me put it this way - I can pretty much guarantee that book would have graded no higher than 4.5 from CGC, because of faults that were not apparent on the scan - if you'd have received it, you'd probably agree with me. I was out of pocket sending it back, not the seller. And now he relists it, agreeing with my grade. A scan does not necessarily give you the full story of a books' grade, just as people often look at a book in a slab and say `that looks way better than the grade` - there can always be more to it than just what you can see on the surface.

[Chip Cataldo]

I provide high-quality scans (front & back), grade the book as accurately as I can AND fully accept returns without issue. The only question I ask the buyer is why they're returning it so I can continue to learn and improve my grading.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

[RockMyAmadeus]

I have almost...*almost*...bought from sellers who say "My grade is my opinion, and if you don't agree, too bad, you're stuck with it" solely to demonstrate to them the facts. And one of those is this: if you sell on eBay, you must take returns if a buyer wants to return the item, and claims the item is not as described.

 

Suck it up, eBay sellers. Accept it. And learn how to grade.

 

The "no returns allowed" sellers are causing themselves unnecessary grief.

 

Expecting a buyer to "judge from the pictures" doesn't fly. A buyer cannot hold the item in their hands and inspect it for themselves. The seller CAN, and is therefore responsible for an accurate description. No picture/scan shows everything, and there are things which simply cannot be known outside of personal inspection.

 

And excuses of any kind ("I am not a professional grader", "grade is only my opinion", "grading is subjective") fail, too. If you can't grade, don't assign a grade and take lots of pictures that clearly show the flaws. Describe everything. And if you do grade, stand behind it, and if the buyer doesn't agree, consider it the cost of doing business and take it back.

 

 

 

In my opinion, the book is Near Mint, and unfortunately these fuzzy pictures are all I am able to supply as I don't have a scanner and my phone/camera/scrying device sort of sucks. Caveat Emptor!

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I provide high-quality scans (front & back), grade the book as accurately as I can AND fully accept returns without issue. The only question I ask the buyer is why they're returning it so I can continue to learn and improve my grading.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

 

That's really the best way.

 

And, frequently, if the buyer asks for return shipping, I'll even give that.

 

The small loss of time and money isn't worth the huge grief. It really isn't.

[Erndog]

I think you could have went about it a better way, even if I do agree that you were right in the end.

 

It just seemed like you were trying to bully him into a refund.

 

He was trying to explain, and at the very least gave some justifcation to his practice/policy, while you were curt and basically told him, 'no, listen to me, this is how it's gonna go.'

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you... item wasn't as described, etc, but I think perhaps a more cordial discussion could have led elsewhere. Though, I agree, that sometimes you just gotta put your foot down and don't have time for the bicker/banter back and forth.

[Meeklo]

I will also state that I refuse to sell raw copies on ebay because of these issues. If they do not sell on here, then I'll sell them on consignment at a LCS or if they are complete worthless drek, I take them to Half Price Books.

[the blob]

New Bats 232

 

Changed the grading to "VG+/F"

 

i have to say, the scans look at least that good, maybe better, but i understand that this is a "you need to look at it closely" situation. On ebay i'd probably just call it a "solid mid-grade copy" if I couldn't decide on the grade.

[quicksilver]

I think you could have went about it a better way, even if I do agree that you were right in the end.

 

It just seemed like you were trying to bully him into a refund.

 

He was trying to explain, and at the very least gave some justifcation to his practice/policy, while you were curt and basically told him, 'no, listen to me, this is how it's gonna go.'

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you... item wasn't as described, etc, but I think perhaps a more cordial discussion could have led elsewhere. Though, I agree, that sometimes you just gotta put your foot down and don't have time for the bicker/banter back and forth.

 

Yes, I see what you're saying, but he'd already got my back up with some very odd messages before I'd even paid - are you sure you want this ? I've had a lot of interest etc - even though I was the only bidder - he even mailed me about not paying in the middle of the Night my time - normally I am a lot more courteous.

 

Bought a phone off a guy in Ireland, it went quite cheap - guy mailed me - wrong description, I'll refund - no, just send it please - next he said he'd dropped it and it wouldn't switch on - I had him send and it works perfectly, it just didn't sell as high as he wanted.

 

It's like people can't just be up front but have to have some kind of agenda all the time.

 

 

[Erndog]

I think you could have went about it a better way, even if I do agree that you were right in the end.

 

It just seemed like you were trying to bully him into a refund.

 

He was trying to explain, and at the very least gave some justifcation to his practice/policy, while you were curt and basically told him, 'no, listen to me, this is how it's gonna go.'

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you... item wasn't as described, etc, but I think perhaps a more cordial discussion could have led elsewhere. Though, I agree, that sometimes you just gotta put your foot down and don't have time for the bicker/banter back and forth.

 

Yes, I see what you're saying, but he'd already got my back up with some very odd messages before I'd even paid - are you sure you want this ? I've had a lot of interest etc - even though I was the only bidder - he even mailed me about not paying in the middle of the Night my time - normally I am a lot more courteous.

 

Bought a phone off a guy in Ireland, it went quite cheap - guy mailed me - wrong description, I'll refund - no, just send it please - next he said he'd dropped it and it wouldn't switch on - I had him send and it works perfectly, it just didn't sell as high as he wanted.

 

It's like people can't just be up front but have to have some kind of agenda all the time.

 

 

 

That's for sure.

 

And I didn't know that he initially tried to back out. Plus, him relisting it (with a new grade!) shows he probably knew that his grade was generous... or, if he didn't, he probably didn't know how to grade in the first place and was upset someone that actually knew how won his book. Now he's like, "ah , it really wasn't what I thought it was. Guess I'll have to take less than I anticipated."

 

Either way, hope it works out for ya

[Chaseman210]

I have almost...*almost*...bought from sellers who say "My grade is my opinion, and if you don't agree, too bad, you're stuck with it" solely to demonstrate to them the facts. And one of those is this: if you sell on eBay, you must take returns if a buyer wants to return the item, and claims the item is not as described.

 

Suck it up, eBay sellers. Accept it. And learn how to grade.

 

The "no returns allowed" sellers are causing themselves unnecessary grief.

 

Expecting a buyer to "judge from the pictures" doesn't fly. A buyer cannot hold the item in their hands and inspect it for themselves. The seller CAN, and is therefore responsible for an accurate description. No picture/scan shows everything, and there are things which simply cannot be known outside of personal inspection.

 

And excuses of any kind ("I am not a professional grader", "grade is only my opinion", "grading is subjective") fail, too. If you can't grade, don't assign a grade and take lots of pictures that clearly show the flaws. Describe everything. And if you do grade, stand behind it, and if the buyer doesn't agree, consider it the cost of doing business and take it back.

 

 

 

On the other hand, how about people who try to return slabs? And the seller has no choice but to take it back even though it's the EXACT condition in which the buyer ordered?

[gaz973]

If you can't grade, don't assign a grade and take lots of pictures that clearly show the flaws. Describe everything.

 

This.

 

It's ridiculous saying stuff like "I'm not an expert grader" or "grading is subjective" and then assigning a grade. The reason people do that is to try to get the value of the grade they are stating without being accountable for that grade.

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

I have almost...*almost*...bought from sellers who say "My grade is my opinion, and if you don't agree, too bad, you're stuck with it" solely to demonstrate to them the facts. And one of those is this: if you sell on eBay, you must take returns if a buyer wants to return the item, and claims the item is not as described.

 

Suck it up, eBay sellers. Accept it. And learn how to grade.

 

The "no returns allowed" sellers are causing themselves unnecessary grief.

 

Expecting a buyer to "judge from the pictures" doesn't fly. A buyer cannot hold the item in their hands and inspect it for themselves. The seller CAN, and is therefore responsible for an accurate description. No picture/scan shows everything, and there are things which simply cannot be known outside of personal inspection.

 

And excuses of any kind ("I am not a professional grader", "grade is only my opinion", "grading is subjective") fail, too. If you can't grade, don't assign a grade and take lots of pictures that clearly show the flaws. Describe everything. And if you do grade, stand behind it, and if the buyer doesn't agree, consider it the cost of doing business and take it back.

 

 

 

On the other hand, how about people who try to return slabs? And the seller has no choice but to take it back even though it's the EXACT condition in which the buyer ordered?

Take returns on everything (except the obvious like dated tickets to a show, concert etc, perishable items). for any reason, even if they just changed their mind. It's the cost of doing business and puts a buyer's mind at ease. No different than buying at a store like Target, Walmart, Sears, Home Depot, etc.

[kav]

If you can't grade, don't assign a grade and take lots of pictures that clearly show the flaws. Describe everything.

 

This.

 

It's ridiculous saying stuff like "I'm not an expert grader" or "grading is subjective" and then assigning a grade. The reason people do that is to try to get the value of the grade they are stating without being accountable for that grade.

I have been saying this for years. Assigning grades just asks for trouble. Even if you are a good grader, there are people that will wildly disagree with you.

Pics and description.