The Conserved Label

[goldust40]

So whatcha' think?

I've long thought that CGC should have just one color label. They could have a field on the label for Restoration/Conservation. If there is none, note "None". If either is present, provide a detailed description there. Let the market decide the value of each book and any work done to it.

 

I've never seen the value of having a separate color label system. This proposed "Conserved Label" will just unnecessarily confuse the market more.

 

This. Plus, it's a decision that's been made rather late in the day.

[Marvel Zombie]

I am definitely intrigued by this. But it seems market driven rather than knowledge driven. Restoration takes many forms from very minor such as tear seals to moderate such as staple replacement and minor color touch to extensive such as piece replacement. (Just a few examples).

 

It SHOULD be the collectors' knowledge and understanding to perceive the various grades of restoration. I am still shocked when I see a question on the boards (not necessarily in GA) where someone asks "Is erasing dirt resto?' or "Is pressing resto?"

 

It feels like they are asking if a company like CGC says it isn't then they are OK with it? The collector should be knowledgeable about these things just as much as they are about artists, first appearances etc. But they often aren't and this leads to a commercial opening in grading books.

 

Some may know I studied restoration and techniques quite vigorously in the 80s. I spent about 40 hours with a major restorer back then in learning pressing, in-painting, tear seals etc. and the various tools and materials to achieve this,

 

I have always felt that any modification to the book that requires some form of artificial intervention is restoration, which includes pressing, dry cleaning and staple cleaning. These are processes intended to restore the book to a previous condition. These are VERY minor and should be seen as that. Yet many collectors just glom these techniques under the same Resto umbrella as the major techniques like in-painting, leaf casting and piece replacement.

 

I really do not get it.

 

 

what is the difference between piece replacement and leaf casting?

 

thanks!

[gino2paulus2]

I have a question...are we thinking tape in general to fix a spine split would fall under the umbrella of conserved if resubbed? How does this work with reholdering? Lets say I accidentally cracked the case and just needed a new slab...could I keep the blue label? Opinions? Example...

 

 

[G.A.tor]

My guess is reg tape is still a downgrade and blue label. Archival tape used to conserve would get clod

[jaybuck43]

Is it possible that the CLOD (love the name btw) is a means of splitting up the purple label. I.e. amateur restoration gets a CLOD while Professional restoration gets a PLOD. This could be seen as a way of raising the value of each. There is a market out there for people who will gladly buy some slight A restoration but do not want P restoration, this label makes it easier for them to tell the two apart? IDK just my two cents.

[MrBedrock]

Is it possible that the CLOD (love the name btw) is a means of splitting up the purple label. I.e. amateur restoration gets a CLOD while Professional restoration gets a PLOD.

It will probably be exactly the opposite - pro resto will generally get a conserved label as most pro resto is reversible in some form, while most amateur resto is not. The conserved label is only going to be applied to those forms of resto which are both reversible and applied primarily with extending the life of the paper. Non-reversible cosmetic restoration with get the restored label. It is my understanding that leaf-casting will be considered restoration. The gray area to me is with cleaning. I'm not sure that the decision has been made on whether to consider that conservation or restoration. I think there are arguments to be made on both sides.

[G.A.tor]

Is it possible that the CLOD (love the name btw) .

 

[thedude]

No. Paper replaced.

yah plod. Wonder what color label they will use? I'm thinking red, orange, or white.

 

mmm, this is a tough one, cuz none of these would sound good when saying "RLOD", "OLOD" or "WLOD". what about a clear label? I like the sound of "CLOD".

 

 

re: Gator.

 

ahem.

 

[jaybuck43]

I guess I just don't understand the difference between conservation and restoration. To me most restoration would be considered conservation with the exception of Color Touch and marrying a cover.

 

Take for instance my ASM 1 in my sig line. It has some Marvel chipping (sad face) now my understanding is that Marvel chipping has to do with air being introduced into the paper because of a blunted blade and that over time it will get progressively worse. Now couldn't I do some leaf casting or some other form of restoration that I totally don't understand (I'll refer to it as "Book Magic") which adds paper onto the book filling in the marvel chipping with the goal to stop the process of marvel chipping but with the added benefit of now having an ASM 1 that doesn't look like my cat was hungry.

[MrBedrock]

I guess I just don't understand the difference between conservation and restoration. To me most restoration would be considered conservation with the exception of Color Touch and marrying a cover.

 

Take for instance my ASM 1 in my sig line. It has some Marvel chipping (sad face) now my understanding is that Marvel chipping has to do with air being introduced into the paper because of a blunted blade and that over time it will get progressively worse. Now couldn't I do some leaf casting or some other form of restoration that I totally don't understand (I'll refer to it as "Book Magic") which adds paper onto the book filling in the marvel chipping with the goal to stop the process of marvel chipping but with the added benefit of now having an ASM 1 that doesn't look like my cat was hungry.

Leaf casting is a process which essentially uses liquid pulp to fill in missing areas of paper. You could certainly use that process to fill in the missing Marvel chips, but then you would have areas of the cover which would have no color other then that of the natural pulp. The book would still look chewed on the edge. To eliminate the ugliness you would then have to color in that area. It could be argued that the initial leaf cast area is conservation, the process is entirely reversible. Any color touch is obviously cosmetic and therefore would not fall under the umbrella of conservation.

 

Edit - I have edited my original post as I have been informed that leaf casting is entirely reversible. Leaf casted areas can be removed by simply applying water.

[jaybuck43]

Thanks MrBedrock (thumbs u you understand this stuff 10,000x more than I do.

[MrBedrock]

I guess I just don't understand the difference between conservation and restoration. To me most restoration would be considered conservation with the exception of Color Touch and marrying a cover.

 

The basic premise is that conservation involves processes which protect the integrity of the existing paper and hopefully eliminate or arrest further degradation while at the same time are completely reversible (removable). Simply, it is something done to a book that allows you to hold it, read it, enjoy it while not having to worry that it will fall apart.

 

Restoration involves processes whose primary purpose is to improve the visual appeal of paper using methods that may or may not necessarily take into consideration the long term originality and are not reversible. Simply, it is something done to a comic book to make it look pretty.

[G.A.tor]

No. Paper replaced.

yah plod. Wonder what color label they will use? I'm thinking red, orange, or white.

 

mmm, this is a tough one, cuz none of these would sound good when saying "RLOD", "OLOD" or "WLOD". what about a clear label? I like the sound of "CLOD".

 

 

re: Gator.

 

ahem.

 

Nope. "Clear" label of death doesn't count. I win

[thunsicker]

So I've read through this twice now (though perhaps not as closely as I should have) and can't see the link to where this was announced. Anyone have it handy?

[jaybuck43]

I don't believe it has been announced, just speculated.

[G.A.tor]

I don't believe it has been announced, just speculated.

It's been announced just no public posting. No speculation...it is a done deal I am told

[Cat-Man_America]

I guess I just don't understand the difference between conservation and restoration. To me most restoration would be considered conservation with the exception of Color Touch and marrying a cover.

 

Take for instance my ASM 1 in my sig line. It has some Marvel chipping (sad face) now my understanding is that Marvel chipping has to do with air being introduced into the paper because of a blunted blade and that over time it will get progressively worse. Now couldn't I do some leaf casting or some other form of restoration that I totally don't understand (I'll refer to it as "Book Magic") which adds paper onto the book filling in the marvel chipping with the goal to stop the process of marvel chipping but with the added benefit of now having an ASM 1 that doesn't look like my cat was hungry.

 

There isn't a lot of difference, it's mostly semantics.

 

Restoration is a valid means for professional conservers to preserve fragile artifacts. The methods involved can be either additive or subtractive, insignificant or reconstructive, reversible or permanent and difficult to detect except by expert appraisers. Unfortunately, restoration has long borne the stigma of being associated with amateur efforts inclined toward deceit for profit, a holdover from abuses long before CGC grading provided an added level of consumer confidence.

 

Professional restoration techniques are universally accepted in the antiques world for the preservation of a broad range of paper ephemera. Furthermore, values aren't as negatively impacted by conservation efforts when the work is clearly delineated by expert appraisers. Our hobby has been headed down this path for a long time (since the advent of CGC), but at a slow pace to smooth over those unresolved trust issues. I suspect that this change will help accomplish that.

 

Personally, it seems like a new color label is unnecessary. They should just use the blue label and note the type and amount of restoration/preservation on the label as professional conservation. It would avoid PLODs, GLODs or CLODs, ...but that's just my , other's coinage may vary.

[MrBedrock]

I went back and edited one of my previous posts as I was informed by Kenny that leaf casting is in fact totally reversible. Leaf casted areas can be removed by simply applying water. I think that is the primary reason for the uncertainty about how to categorize the process.

[nearmint]

Leaf casted areas can be removed by simply applying water. I think that is the primary reason for the uncertainty about how to categorize the process.

 

(thumbs u

[Marvel Zombie]

I went back and edited one of my previous posts as I was informed by Kenny that leaf casting is in fact totally reversible. Leaf casted areas can be removed by simply applying water. I think that is the primary reason for the uncertainty about how to categorize the process.

 

 

Then leaf casting is the same as pieces added, or ... ?