GPA Frustrations

[passion4comics]

Avengers 1 in 9.2 just sold for 38k. GPA has no record of it. You have to watch the market close! Too close! I know numbers that are wrong in GPA because the sales went through at different prices than they captures, but who am I to think they would correct it?

 

It's a guide. If you're dropping a lot of money you need to know what the prices are really selling for.

 

If you find an error, send them an email and they'll fix it.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Passion - you appear just to be pumping your own ego here versus doing something productive with information.

[/u]

 

No I'm relaying a lesson learned by a seasoned board member that was anything but an ego pump. I don't think admitting to egg on my face would be an ego pump.

[Speedy-D]

Avengers 1 in 9.2 just sold for 38k. GPA has no record of it. You have to watch the market close! Too close! I know numbers that are wrong in GPA because the sales went through at different prices than they captures, but who am I to think they would correct it?

 

It's a guide. If you're dropping a lot of money you need to know what the prices are really selling for.

 

If you find an error, send them an email and they'll fix it.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Passion - you appear just to be pumping your own ego here versus doing something productive with information.

[/u]

 

No I'm relaying a lesson learned by a seasoned board member that was anything but an ego pump.

What's the lesson learned, and who's the seasoned board member?

 

you said member...

[passion4comics]

Avengers 1 in 9.2 just sold for 38k. GPA has no record of it. You have to watch the market close! Too close! I know numbers that are wrong in GPA because the sales went through at different prices than they captures, but who am I to think they would correct it?

 

It's a guide. If you're dropping a lot of money you need to know what the prices are really selling for.

 

If you find an error, send them an email and they'll fix it.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Passion - you appear just to be pumping your own ego here versus doing something productive with information.

[/u]

 

No I'm relaying a lesson learned by a seasoned board member that was anything but an ego pump.

What's the lesson learned, and who's the seasoned board member?

 

you said member...

 

When I was looking for an FF1 I was talking to Bob and quoting GPA as a bible. In the end, he was right, GPA was wrong, and when I finally did get one, it wasn't the price GPA had. In the end I was the one really wrong and using GPA as my source of information and learned that while it's a nice tool, there is more to the market than a spreadsheet.

 

How did I end up defending myself for being wrong?

[roulette44]

I agree with the points made about GPA being a wonderful tool and definitely helps us get a read on the market. Too many people, though, use GPA as if it were gospel (in this case, be willing to pay more for the FF1 4.0 vs 4.5 sight unseen but none of that is GPAs fault.

 

I too, have seen errors over the years and they're easy to have fixed when evidence is there. It is on us to police this and protect the hobby we love.

 

Now, on that note, we have a recent AF15 Cgc 5.5 sale for under $10,000 - anywhere know where that came from, certainly doesn't seem right to me :shrug:

 

Joey

[Blackout-migration]

Avengers 1 in 9.2 just sold for 38k. GPA has no record of it. You have to watch the market close! Too close!

 

On what site did it sell? That's the key. GPA will not let market manipulators like Pedigree or Comiclink report only their good sales.

[passion4comics]

Avengers 1 in 9.2 just sold for 38k. GPA has no record of it. You have to watch the market close! Too close!

 

On what site did it sell? That's the key. GPA will not let market manipulators like Pedigree or Comiclink report only their good sales.

 

I think I see where the mess came from. I wrote that GPA was wrong. What I really meant to say is that they don't capture everything and a person relying on GPA only may need more tools to valuate a book. This is what I get for writing as soon as I wake up.

 

That sale was the in the December Comiclink auction. I just found out that Comiclink and Pedigree do not report? Are not allowed to only report good sales? I would have to read more to see who can and does report.

 

This one

[mschmidt]

Avengers 1 in 9.2 just sold for 38k. GPA has no record of it. You have to watch the market close! Too close! I know numbers that are wrong in GPA because the sales went through at different prices than they captures, but who am I to think they would correct it?

 

It's a guide. If you're dropping a lot of money you need to know what the prices are really selling for.

 

If you find an error, send them an email and they'll fix it.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Passion - you appear just to be pumping your own ego here versus doing something productive with information.

 

There will always be sales that GPA does't account for, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss actual sales or refer to it as a "guide." OSPG and CBPG.com are guides - they are people deciding what something should be worth (arbitrarily or otherwise) and publishing the information. GPA is a physical record of actual market sales, while not all inclusive, it is far more valuable.

It's still a guide, in that it guides you in pricing, just like OSPG and whatnot. Even though it records a subset of actual sales, it's not a price list.

 

It's nothing like the OSPG and, no, GPA is not a guide.

[BarryAllen]

Avengers 1 in 9.2 just sold for 38k. GPA has no record of it. You have to watch the market close! Too close! I know numbers that are wrong in GPA because the sales went through at different prices than they captures, but who am I to think they would correct it?

 

It's a guide. If you're dropping a lot of money you need to know what the prices are really selling for.

 

If you find an error, send them an email and they'll fix it.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Passion - you appear just to be pumping your own ego here versus doing something productive with information.

 

There will always be sales that GPA does't account for, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss actual sales or refer to it as a "guide." OSPG and CBPG.com are guides - they are people deciding what something should be worth (arbitrarily or otherwise) and publishing the information. GPA is a physical record of actual market sales, while not all inclusive, it is far more valuable.

It's still a guide, in that it guides you in pricing, just like OSPG and whatnot. Even though it records a subset of actual sales, it's not a price list.

 

It's nothing like the OSPG and, no, GPA is not a guide.

Agreed. GPA is a list of actual sales (again, not all inclusive).

 

OSPG and others are people agreeing on pricing (may or may not use data to guide their decisions), but these are opinions only. No facts, just guidance…hence why we call them guides.

 

To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a market "price list."

[BarryAllen]

Avengers 1 in 9.2 just sold for 38k. GPA has no record of it. You have to watch the market close! Too close!

 

On what site did it sell? That's the key. GPA will not let market manipulators like Pedigree or Comiclink report only their good sales.

 

I think I see where the mess came from. I wrote that GPA was wrong. What I really meant to say is that they don't capture everything and a person relying on GPA only may need more tools to valuate a book. This is what I get for writing as soon as I wake up.

 

That sale was the in the December Comiclink auction. I just found out that Comiclink and Pedigree do not report? Are not allowed to only report good sales? I would have to read more to see who can and does report.

 

This one

 

I think this is a matter of a missed entry, not a purposeful choice.

 

Did you report this to GPA?

[dudeman5000]

Lots of things other than the cgc grade affect the final price.

 

Page quality?

Presentation?

Wrap?

Quality of photos in the listing?

Confidence in seller (low seller rating/new seller)

Amount of promotion seller did of their sale?

Venue of listing?

Auction vs BIN?

When was the auction? Was it competing with other auctions?

 

Lots of possible factors.

 

Since eBay history only had 30-60 days of transaction history it means you'll need to start maintaining your own database of sales for a larger history.

 

(thumbs u

 

As I am gearing up to restart a quest for my holy grails-the information on GPA is invaluable for high dollar books. As Miracle stated above, I troll all the larger auction and on-line shops to maintain a personal database of factors that would influence fluctuations in GPA prices.

 

I have set the high mark on GPA too many times!!!

 

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

 

Chris

[Wally's Comics]

maybe those 4.5's were just ugly???

 

some people do just buy the book and not the label.

 

 

[gadzukes]

For some strange reason known only to baby Jesus, half grades often do worse than full grades. :shrug:

 

I agree with this statement 100%. We humans seem to like nice round numbers. And it seems like many half grades price out lower than the whole grades.

 

There are two half grades that I really abhor..... 5.5 & 8.5. When I get my books back from CGC and see a 5.5 or an 8.5 I really have to stop myself from cursing. The price differences from 5.5 to 6.0 & from 8.5 to 9.0 are really huge so if they're books that I was planning to sell I just think about the lost money. But..... what can you do (except spend more money to CPR?).

 

Personally I really like GPA. I hate that it's not more inclusive with more sales, but it's at least a solid foundation for choices I make with my purchases.

[lizards2]

Avengers 1 in 9.2 just sold for 38k. GPA has no record of it. You have to watch the market close! Too close! I know numbers that are wrong in GPA because the sales went through at different prices than they captures, but who am I to think they would correct it?

 

It's a guide. If you're dropping a lot of money you need to know what the prices are really selling for.

 

If you find an error, send them an email and they'll fix it.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Passion - you appear just to be pumping your own ego here versus doing something productive with information.

 

There will always be sales that GPA does't account for, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss actual sales or refer to it as a "guide." OSPG and CBPG.com are guides - they are people deciding what something should be worth (arbitrarily or otherwise) and publishing the information. GPA is a physical record of actual market sales, while not all inclusive, it is far more valuable.

It's still a guide, in that it guides you in pricing, just like OSPG and whatnot. Even though it records a subset of actual sales, it's not a price list.

 

It's nothing like the OSPG and, no, GPA is not a guide.

People use it as a guide though - to quote GPA highs when selling, and to quote GPA lows when haggling.

[Shrevvy]

Look, I accept GPA for what it is. I know there are differences in quality of books in a given grade. Is it possible there is human error? Transposed numbers or a fat finger? It seems odd to me that the FF #1 4.0 has the highest 12 month and 90 day average between 3.0 and 5.0. Only the 5.0 last sale trumps the 4.0 last sale (6500 vs 6250 - within 7 days of each other). Maybe the last year's worth of 4.0s were off the charts and were really 6.0s mis-graded. I don't know. Of the 6 most recent sales I posted in my original post, only one can be verified by an outsider right now. The others can't. Yes, actual sales data is better than a "guide," but only if it is entered correctly. I am questioning if it is entered correctly. Nothing else.

 

No one else looks at these numbers and sees something out of place?

 

12 month ave

3.0 3085

3.5 3781

4.0 6100

4.5 4294

5.0 5762

 

90 day

3.0 3406

3.5 4098

4.0 6250

4.5 4183

5.0 6005

 

[BarryAllen]

Avengers 1 in 9.2 just sold for 38k. GPA has no record of it. You have to watch the market close! Too close! I know numbers that are wrong in GPA because the sales went through at different prices than they captures, but who am I to think they would correct it?

 

It's a guide. If you're dropping a lot of money you need to know what the prices are really selling for.

 

If you find an error, send them an email and they'll fix it.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Passion - you appear just to be pumping your own ego here versus doing something productive with information.

 

There will always be sales that GPA does't account for, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss actual sales or refer to it as a "guide." OSPG and CBPG.com are guides - they are people deciding what something should be worth (arbitrarily or otherwise) and publishing the information. GPA is a physical record of actual market sales, while not all inclusive, it is far more valuable.

It's still a guide, in that it guides you in pricing, just like OSPG and whatnot. Even though it records a subset of actual sales, it's not a price list.

 

It's nothing like the OSPG and, no, GPA is not a guide.

People use it as a guide though - to quote GPA highs when selling, and to quote GPA lows when haggling.

 

Sure; but we are mixing definition, application and intention here.

[yoddler]

Look, I accept GPA for what it is. I know there are differences in quality of books in a given grade. Is it possible there is human error? Transposed numbers or a fat finger? It seems odd to me that the FF #1 4.0 has the highest 12 month and 90 day average between 3.0 and 5.0. Only the 5.0 last sale trumps the 4.0 last sale (6500 vs 6250 - within 7 days of each other). Maybe the last year's worth of 4.0s were off the charts and were really 6.0s mis-graded. I don't know. Of the 6 most recent sales I posted in my original post, only one can be verified by an outsider right now. The others can't. Yes, actual sales data is better than a "guide," but only if it is entered correctly. I am questioning if it is entered correctly. Nothing else.

 

No one else looks at these numbers and sees something out of place?

 

12 month ave

3.0 3085

3.5 3781

4.0 6100

4.5 4294

5.0 5762

 

90 day

3.0 3406

3.5 4098

4.0 6250

4.5 4183

5.0 6005

 

Does the market always have to make sense? Some of those higher sales could have been shill accounts. Or maybe someone had to buy the book for their kid and didn't care or know what the price was. Or there was a bidding war between two jerks who wouldn't back down just to prove a point. Or you're right, maybe someone entered a data point wrong. But you'll never know which one it was. Some buyers got lucky. Some sellers got lucky. The data set is just too small to be accurate. It is what it is.

[HarveySwick]

Buy the book... not the grade.

[Jeffro.]

Take GPA for what it is, a source of information. Personally I find it to be extremely useful but you need to be able to put some thought into interpreting the information to find it helpful.

 

Very true.

People also need to access other sources of information in order to get a more complete picture

[nearmint]

Look, I accept GPA for what it is. I know there are differences in quality of books in a given grade. Is it possible there is human error? Transposed numbers or a fat finger? It seems odd to me that the FF #1 4.0 has the highest 12 month and 90 day average between 3.0 and 5.0. Only the 5.0 last sale trumps the 4.0 last sale (6500 vs 6250 - within 7 days of each other). Maybe the last year's worth of 4.0s were off the charts and were really 6.0s mis-graded. I don't know. Of the 6 most recent sales I posted in my original post, only one can be verified by an outsider right now. The others can't. Yes, actual sales data is better than a "guide," but only if it is entered correctly. I am questioning if it is entered correctly. Nothing else.

 

No one else looks at these numbers and sees something out of place?

 

12 month ave

3.0 3085

3.5 3781

4.0 6100

4.5 4294

5.0 5762

 

90 day

3.0 3406

3.5 4098

4.0 6250

4.5 4183

5.0 6005

 

I don't see anything remarkable or strange there. The last two 4.5 copies that sold had OW and C-OW pages. The last two 4.0 copies had OW-W and W pages. It makes a difference. Also, dealer sales will normally be higher than auction sales. As others have mentioned, the 4.0 copies may have had upgrade potential, which can make a huge difference in realized prices.

 

You can cry human error, but I don't see it.

[Speedy-D]

Avengers 1 in 9.2 just sold for 38k. GPA has no record of it. You have to watch the market close! Too close! I know numbers that are wrong in GPA because the sales went through at different prices than they captures, but who am I to think they would correct it?

 

It's a guide. If you're dropping a lot of money you need to know what the prices are really selling for.

 

If you find an error, send them an email and they'll fix it.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Passion - you appear just to be pumping your own ego here versus doing something productive with information.

 

There will always be sales that GPA does't account for, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss actual sales or refer to it as a "guide." OSPG and CBPG.com are guides - they are people deciding what something should be worth (arbitrarily or otherwise) and publishing the information. GPA is a physical record of actual market sales, while not all inclusive, it is far more valuable.

It's still a guide, in that it guides you in pricing, just like OSPG and whatnot. Even though it records a subset of actual sales, it's not a price list.

 

It's nothing like the OSPG and, no, GPA is not a guide.

Yeah it is. You use it to figure out how to value comics. Sounds not unsimilar to me.