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Golden Age vs Silver/Bronze CGC

Started by bobbodouble,

46 posts in this topic

bobbodouble

bobbodouble

Posted
Posted

Hello Everyone,

 

I understand the extreme popularity of Spiderman and Wolverine but will use The Amazing Spider-Man 1 and Incredible Hulk 181 as the examples..... With there being thousands of decent copies in existence for both, what do the fellow boardies think of the long term investment in these books vs the Golden Age books? Do you guys expect many new raw collections to come to market from the Golden Age era? I would love to buy some Silver Age stuff but feel as if the market will one day be overwhelmed by new CGC entries and will end up paying much more than i should. Furthermore, as a collector and not an investor, do you really think there is justification in the premiums of these Silver Age books if one is say a 9.0 vs an 7.5/6.5?

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aardvark88

aardvark88

Posted
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I don't think there is a bubble at all for SA as it will keep trending up for next 10 years. Comics from 1964 are now 50 years old, thus SA has become the new GA. hm

Collectors/fans fondly remember the 1960s version of their fave heroes, not anything that came out before 1961 (SA Marvel) or 1956 (SA DC). 'Younger' collectors will look to the reboot of many series in 1968, as their new GA.

 

This will in time quickly churn to BA making 1970 Conan #1, or 1974 (Hulk 181) or 1972(?) ASM 120, the start of that generation's new GA.

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G.A.tor

G.A.tor

Posted
Posted

a 30 year old dating a 15 year old is taboo...

 

a 45 year old dating a 30 year old is money...

 

silver age will continue to outpace (or close the gap) GA as far as "return", as the years pass us by (thumbs u

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Sqeggs

Sqeggs

Posted
Posted
Hello Everyone,

 

I understand the extreme popularity of Spiderman and Wolverine but will use The Amazing Spider-Man 1 and Incredible Hulk 181 as the examples..... With there being thousands of decent copies in existence for both, what do the fellow boardies think of the long term investment in these books vs the Golden Age books? Do you guys expect many new raw collections to come to market from the Golden Age era? I would love to buy some Silver Age stuff but feel as if the market will one day be overwhelmed by new CGC entries and will end up paying much more than i should. Furthermore, as a collector and not an investor, do you really think there is justification in the premiums of these Silver Age books if one is say a 9.0 vs an 7.5/6.5?

 

Worth drawing a distinction, I think, between ASM 1 and IH 181. You never know, but I think it very unlikely at this late date that an overwhelming number of ASM 1s will surface, particularly in 9.0 and up.

 

No one really knows what will happen to the price of any book going forward. The best advice is the oldest advice: Buy what you like and can afford. That way you don't have to worry if prices fall.

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Vision75

Vision75

Posted
Posted

Sqeggs makes a good point. There's substantial quantity difference between silver age keys in the early 60s vs. those in the late 60s vs. those bronze age keys in the 70s (like Hulk 181), especially in high grade.

 

For example, according to census there are only 64 ASM 1s (1963) graded at 9.0 or higher. However, there are approximately 600 Iron Man #1s (1968) graded 9.0 or higher. Incredible Hulk 181 is later (1974) and high grade examples are even more prevalent: 1400+ graded 9.0 or higher.

 

The point is that demand has to be incredibly high to drive prices up of late 60s+ books because the market is so flush with supply.

 

One of the reasons I started collecting GA was because of its relative rarity. Some others with more experience may chime in here but I operate with these assumptions.

 

Golden Age Keys: 100 to 500 copies in existence (slabbed AND Raw).

Late 50s to early 60s Silver Age Keys: 2000-6000 in existence.

Late 60s keys: 25,000+ copies in existence.

80s and so forth keys: 100,000+ copies in existence.

 

Of course there are exceptions with some modern comics being more "scarce" (e.g., TMNT 1) but that type of scarce is nothing compared to golden age scarce. Because of the geometric increase in supply from the golden age on up, I don't think statements like the Bronze Age becoming the Golden Age, at least in terms of investments, will be accurate. There will never be a time again where the vast majority of kids and collectors liberally throw out their comic books. For this reason the gold and early silver-age keys will forever be scarcer and more valuable.

 

My two cents.

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Cat-Man_America

Cat-Man_America

Posted
Posted
a 30 year old dating a 15 year old is taboo...

 

a 45 year old dating a 30 year old is money...

 

silver age will continue to outpace (or close the gap) GA as far as "return", as the years pass us by (thumbs u

 

And a 60 year old dating a 30 year old is priceless, ...

 

...but the harsh reality is a potential bubble in the SA market generated by baby-boomer collections from the dawn of the hobby (as it developed from early 60's comic fandom to present). Much of the collector market today is attuned to speculation based on media participation (TV & film), but that association is tenuous and fickle given the ever-shifting trendiness of modern culture. Folks would be wise to focus on where the hobby will be when Hollywood trends change.

 

I don't see SA values dropping dramatically overnight, but any cursory examination of the CGC census factoring in numbers of SA books graded should provide sufficient cause for concern. Of course the census isn't 100% accurate, but assessing market probability based on any comparison of the numbers involved is sobering.

 

Without judging the desirability of any genre based on quality, GA is a narrower, more sophisticated side of the collecting hobby that hasn't been overwhelmed by familiar character popularity, reboots or speculation. Furthermore, the quantity of collectable GA isn't limitless ...or seemingly so... as demonstrated by the numbers of more recent books graded in the census.

 

I'm not applying for Chicken Little's job here (it's thankless and subject to merciless plucking), but the safest long term course of collecting from a prudent investment perspective will always be GA in grade. Barring that, I'd recommend diversifying across the board to cover all bases and when buying SA-modern stick with mid-grade.

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gino2paulus2

gino2paulus2

Posted
Posted
a 30 year old dating a 15 year old is taboo...

 

a 45 year old dating a 30 year old is money...

 

silver age will continue to outpace (or close the gap) GA as far as "return", as the years pass us by (thumbs u

 

And a 60 year old dating a 30 year old is priceless, ...

 

...but the harsh reality is a potential bubble in the SA market generated by baby-boomer collections from the dawn of the hobby (as it developed from early 60's comic fandom to present). Much of the collector market today is attuned to speculation based on media participation (TV & film), but that association is tenuous and fickle given the ever-shifting trendiness of modern culture. Folks would be wise to focus on where the hobby will be when Hollywood trends change.

 

I don't see SA values dropping dramatically overnight, but any cursory examination of the CGC census factoring in numbers of SA books graded should provide sufficient cause for concern. Of course the census isn't 100% accurate, but assessing market probability based on any comparison of the numbers involved is sobering.

 

Without judging the desirability of any genre based on quality, GA is a narrower, more sophisticated side of the collecting hobby that hasn't been overwhelmed by familiar character popularity, reboots or speculation. Furthermore, the quantity of collectable GA isn't limitless ...or seemingly so... as demonstrated by the numbers of more recent books graded in the census.

 

I'm not applying for Chicken Little's job here (it's thankless and subject to merciless plucking), but the safest long term course of collecting from a prudent investment perspective will always be GA in grade. Barring that, I'd recommend diversifying across the board to cover all bases and when buying SA-modern stick with mid-grade.

 

no real surprise here...another well thought out post...well said Sir!!!!

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Kindle-migration

Kindle-migration

Posted
Posted

 

 

Hulk 181 in 9.4 up will probably continue to drop overtime but 8.5 to 9.2

should hold steady. Any major Silver age key in low to mid range

should definitely hold steady and a few of these with low census numbers

above 8.0 like Amazing Fantasy 15 and Hulk 1 should continue to rise.

 

Golden Age keys are already vastly expensive but unrestored copies should

continue to rise. Restored copies are okay and should increase as unrestore

prices the majority of buyers out of the market. Of course this is all speculation

so take your time and choose wisely.

 

 

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gino2paulus2

gino2paulus2

Posted
Posted

 

Hulk 181 in 9.4 up will probably continue to drop overtime but 8.5 to 9.2

should hold steady. Any major Silver age key in low to mid range

should definitely hold steady and a few of these with low census numbers

above 8.0 like Amazing Fantasy 15 and Hulk 1 should continue to rise.

 

Golden Age keys are already vastly expensive but unrestored copies should

continue to rise. Restored copies are okay and should increase as unrestore

prices the majority of buyers out of the market. Of course this is all speculation

so take your time and choose wisely.

 

and HAVE FUN!!!!!!

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Kindle-migration

Kindle-migration

Posted
Posted

 

Hulk 181 in 9.4 up will probably continue to drop overtime but 8.5 to 9.2

should hold steady. Any major Silver age key in low to mid range

should definitely hold steady and a few of these with low census numbers

above 8.0 like Amazing Fantasy 15 and Hulk 1 should continue to rise.

 

Golden Age keys are already vastly expensive but unrestored copies should

continue to rise. Restored copies are okay and should increase as unrestore

prices the majority of buyers out of the market. Of course this is all speculation

so take your time and choose wisely.

 

and HAVE FUN!!!!!!

 

Sorry, of course the most important thing. lol

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ciorac

ciorac

Posted
Posted

 

Hulk 181 in 9.4 up will probably continue to drop overtime but 8.5 to 9.2

should hold steady. Any major Silver age key in low to mid range

should definitely hold steady and a few of these with low census numbers

above 8.0 like Amazing Fantasy 15 and Hulk 1 should continue to rise.

 

 

 

Probably true, but they won't be as liquid. Not many can plunk down 50K+ for a funnybook

 

I've always held that low to mid grade, nice presentation, copies of Marvel keys are as close to cash as this hobby has ever seen, or will see

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gino2paulus2

gino2paulus2

Posted
Posted

 

Hulk 181 in 9.4 up will probably continue to drop overtime but 8.5 to 9.2

should hold steady. Any major Silver age key in low to mid range

should definitely hold steady and a few of these with low census numbers

above 8.0 like Amazing Fantasy 15 and Hulk 1 should continue to rise.

 

 

 

Probably true, but they won't be as liquid. Not many can plunk down 50K+ for a funnybook

 

I've always held that low to mid grade, nice presentation, copies of Marvel keys are as close to cash as this hobby has ever seen, or will see

+1 ...then again everything I know about the hobby comes from dudes like this guy!! (worship) so LISTEN to his advice :sumo: One of my favorite quotes came the 2012/13 OSPG Market Report when you said (Ciorac) and I paraphrase, "life has enough worries so comics shouldn't be another addition to that stress...buy what you love and can afford and everytime you look at your collection it will bring a smile to your face." I have swiped this statement and used it a few times myself bc I enjoy it so much :) ....speakin' of OSPG Market reports they are always my favorite part of the book...I am still awaitin my 2013/14 copy (its in the mail as I type this)...Did you get a chance to write a report in the newest addition Ciorac or what? :wishluck:

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ciorac

ciorac

Posted
Posted

 

Hulk 181 in 9.4 up will probably continue to drop overtime but 8.5 to 9.2

should hold steady. Any major Silver age key in low to mid range

should definitely hold steady and a few of these with low census numbers

above 8.0 like Amazing Fantasy 15 and Hulk 1 should continue to rise.

 

 

 

Probably true, but they won't be as liquid. Not many can plunk down 50K+ for a funnybook

 

I've always held that low to mid grade, nice presentation, copies of Marvel keys are as close to cash as this hobby has ever seen, or will see

+1 ...then again everything I know about the hobby comes from dudes like this guy!! (worship) so LISTEN to his advice :sumo: One of my favorite quotes came the 2012/13 OSPG Market Report when you said (Ciorac) and I paraphrase, "life has enough worries so comics shouldn't be another addition to that stress...buy what you love and can afford and everytime you look at your collection it will bring a smile to your face." I have swiped this statement and used it a few times myself bc I enjoy it so much :) ....speakin' of OSPG Market reports they are always my favorite part of the book...I am still awaitin my 2013/14 copy (its in the mail as I type this)...Did you get a chance to write a report in the newest addition Ciorac or what? :wishluck:

 

thanks G2P2!

 

I'm glad someone reads my market reports :)

 

I meant what I wrote there though. I collect a lot of things that aren't considered great investment comics, but they bring a smile to my face every time I see them

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Kindle-migration

Kindle-migration

Posted
Posted

 

Hulk 181 in 9.4 up will probably continue to drop overtime but 8.5 to 9.2

should hold steady. Any major Silver age key in low to mid range

should definitely hold steady and a few of these with low census numbers

above 8.0 like Amazing Fantasy 15 and Hulk 1 should continue to rise.

 

 

 

Probably true, but they won't be as liquid. Not many can plunk down 50K+ for a funnybook

 

I've always held that low to mid grade, nice presentation, copies of Marvel keys are as close to cash as this hobby has ever seen, or will see

+1 ...then again everything I know about the hobby comes from dudes like this guy!! (worship) so LISTEN to his advice :sumo: One of my favorite quotes came the 2012/13 OSPG Market Report when you said (Ciorac) and I paraphrase, "life has enough worries so comics shouldn't be another addition to that stress...buy what you love and can afford and everytime you look at your collection it will bring a smile to your face." I have swiped this statement and used it a few times myself bc I enjoy it so much :) ....speakin' of OSPG Market reports they are always my favorite part of the book...I am still awaitin my 2013/14 copy (its in the mail as I type this)...Did you get a chance to write a report in the newest addition Ciorac or what? :wishluck:

 

thanks G2P2!

 

I'm glad someone reads my market reports :)

 

I meant what I wrote there though. I collect a lot of things that aren't considered great investment comics, but they bring a smile to my face every time I see them

 

Please forward a link to your market report

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gino2paulus2

gino2paulus2

Posted
Posted

 

Hulk 181 in 9.4 up will probably continue to drop overtime but 8.5 to 9.2

should hold steady. Any major Silver age key in low to mid range

should definitely hold steady and a few of these with low census numbers

above 8.0 like Amazing Fantasy 15 and Hulk 1 should continue to rise.

 

 

 

Probably true, but they won't be as liquid. Not many can plunk down 50K+ for a funnybook

 

I've always held that low to mid grade, nice presentation, copies of Marvel keys are as close to cash as this hobby has ever seen, or will see

+1 ...then again everything I know about the hobby comes from dudes like this guy!! (worship) so LISTEN to his advice :sumo: One of my favorite quotes came the 2012/13 OSPG Market Report when you said (Ciorac) and I paraphrase, "life has enough worries so comics shouldn't be another addition to that stress...buy what you love and can afford and everytime you look at your collection it will bring a smile to your face." I have swiped this statement and used it a few times myself bc I enjoy it so much :) ....speakin' of OSPG Market reports they are always my favorite part of the book...I am still awaitin my 2013/14 copy (its in the mail as I type this)...Did you get a chance to write a report in the newest addition Ciorac or what? :wishluck:

 

thanks G2P2!

 

I'm glad someone reads my market reports :)

 

I meant what I wrote there though. I collect a lot of things that aren't considered great investment comics, but they bring a smile to my face every time I see them

 

Please forward a link to your market report

 

You are quite welcome good sir (thumbs u I just dug it out Kindle and I am not sure if you buy the Overstreet Price Guides anymore...I always do bc I am a creature of habit and I have many great childhood memories sittin in the back of my folks car paging through different editions more or less just looking at all the cool covers of the comics not really the prices lol...The market report section is BY FAR the best part of the book and the quote I referenced was from Bill's report in the 2012/13 edition...it is on page 119 if you go pick up a copy you can turn right too it :) Good stuff highly recommended...not sure if they have old editions (shrug) but I think you can download copies on HA but always prefer the real deal tangible hardcover myself...like I said creature of habit...like funny books the downloadable versions will never live up to the real thing no matter how many bells and whistles they put on them!!!

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