Graded vs. Raw, Part 1,093,457,890,394...

[mlovest]

Friends,

 

OK, I have to ask again, what's the real difference between a raw and a graded comic book? With various guides starting to show graded versus raw prices, what's the real basis for the huge premiums for graded comics?

 

For example, let's assume I have two ASM #33 issues. After arriving at CGC Headquarters, Mr. Steve Borock himself grades each vey carefully, and he gives them both a very respectable NM 9.4s with white pages. Next, he has one sealed in the plastic case, and the other he has placed carefully back into a Mylar plus a fullback. What are the comics now worth? Lets assume no other factors--the two comics are identical for all intents and purposes--eye appeal, gloss, centering, no dings, creases, etc. Which comics is worth more and why?

 

OK, now I take the two comics and leave CGC, and I walk to a comic convention and place the two comics up for sale. What are the two comics worth?

 

V/R,

Mike

[Aman619]

they are worth the same, but you wont be able to convince a buyer of that. Unless he fancies himself an experienced grader and judges the raw book as a 9.4 or a 9.6 (in which case he isnt such a good grader is he??) he will buy the "safety of the slabbed 9.4.

 

AND, should he ascertain that they are in identical condition, the raw book is still 'worth' less than the slabbed book by the cost of grading. In order to get the "slabbed 9.4 price" every time the book is for sale (not just to gambler buyers like the one I describe) it will have to be slabbed, costing the buyer $$$ and making the cost of the raw book MORE than the slabbed book.

 

anyway - - - I understand your scenario... but you seen to be asking for a TRUE VALUE comparison. They are equal in VALUE by definition. But not necessarily so in real life.....

[r100comics]

Everyone would naturally assume you had selected the better of the two books to slab, and would therefore conclude the raw copy had some defect (hidden or otherwise) that would keep it from unrestored 9.4. For this reason it would not sell for the same amount as your slabbed copy.

[Ron_Nasty]

Ask Hammer.

[Stronguy]

The raw book is worth more, of course. You see Steve had to mail the slabbed book to you and the PO shook it ever-so slightly causing a really nice case of SCS. So not you have a raw book that would get 9.4 and a slabbed book that would get 8.5 if it were regraded.

[sfilosa]

The probelm with your scenario is this:

 

Assume a NM copy that is slabbed sells for $1,000.

 

You give the book to Steve Borock says they are both NM (9.4).

 

One is slabbed. It is now worth $1,000.

 

The other is not. TOMORROW, you bring the book back to Steve Borock to have slabbed (since you couldn't afford to have both books slabbed without selling the first book). NOW he looks at the book and gives it a NM-(9.2). That book is worth less than $500 on the open market.

 

SEE the point. A CGC 9.4 is EXACTLY that. Yet the other books is not a CGC 9.4, yet, leaving a possiblity that it won't be. That possibly is why the book is not worth the same as the slabbed copy.

[gozer]

 

>>> what's the real difference between a raw and a graded comic book?

 

It's all a matter of context -- when the raw and the slabbed book are 2000

miles away, and I can't pick them up and examine them, the difference is trust.

 

I trust (not completely) that slabbed books are gong to be pretty near the

condition that's on the label. I've been burned too many times (from amateurs

and dealers) who exaggerate the grade of their books.

 

When buying comics online or on ebay, (i.e. when you can't examine them),

CGC has been a godsend. I trust CGC a lot more than I trust some dealer

that I've never met.

 

 

>>> huge premiums for graded comics?

 

In the books that I buy, I don't see these "huge" premiums. A premium

sometimes, yes, but it's not huge. I've even bought golden age slabbed books

for under guide.

 

And I agree that it's insane to pay huge amounts for slabbed MODERN books.

It's tulip mania all over again. But this aspect of the market gets a lot of

attention, and has people thinking that slabbing a book automatically means

it will sell for some huge amount.

 

>>> I walk to a comic convention and place the two comics

>>> up for sale. What are the two comics worth?

 

At a convention, it's a different story. But the difference is that at a convention,

I can pick up the books and examine them.

 

gozer

---------------------------------

Look at the fear in his eyes, listen to the quiver in his voice.

He's a little boy lost in a game of men.

[sfilosa]

At a convention, it's a different story. But the difference is that at a convention,

I can pick up the books and examine them.

 

Yet, even in person, restoration defection is very difficult, especially if it is professional.

[nik]

So damn true, when there is a chance to make extra money on a product, dishonesty will eventually run wild on you

[garthgantu]

Shouldn't this thread be titled "Graded Vs. Raw 101" ? This is pretty remedial stuff.

As gozer pointed out, it's about trust - trust (or lack thereof) in the seller, AND trust in your own grading and resto detection abilities.

 

If you truly believe you can grade to CGC's specifications consistently, there's an easy way to tell...go buy some raw books, assign them grades, and send 'em to CGC. If they come back with the same grades you assigned, and in Blue universal holders, then you're probably a pretty decent grader.

 

What makes this a less-than-foolproof equation is CGC's own lack of consistency combined with a lack of disclosure re: their grading criteria exacerbated by the vagaries of grading - on any given day, a certain defect may be viewed more harshly than it might be viewed tomorrow. We're dealing with people here, not machines.

[nik]

If you truly believe you can grade to CGC's specifications consistently, there's an easy way to tell...go buy some raw books, assign them grades, and send 'em to CGC. If they come back with the same grades you assigned, and in Blue universal holders, then you're probably a pretty decent grader.

 

 

You know something Garth, in my last 3 submissions (92 books) I did just that.

32 I was dead on, 39 I undergraded, and 22 I overgraded. It was pretty entertaining for me.

[skybolt]

If you truly believe you can grade to CGC's specifications consistently, there's an easy way to tell...go buy some raw books, assign them grades, and send 'em to CGC. If they come back with the same grades you assigned, and in Blue universal holders, then you're probably a pretty decent grader.

 

 

You know something Garth, in my last 3 submissions (92 books) I did just that.

32 I was dead on, 39 I undergraded, and 22 I overgraded. It was pretty entertaining for me.

 

After sending many books to be CGC graded I've lowered my grading standards by 1.0 point. What I used to think was a 7.5 is really a 6.5 according to CGC. Once I deduct this point, then I'm usually dead on.

[garthgantu]

If you truly believe you can grade to CGC's specifications consistently, there's an easy way to tell...go buy some raw books, assign them grades, and send 'em to CGC. If they come back with the same grades you assigned, and in Blue universal holders, then you're probably a pretty decent grader.

 

 

You know something Garth, in my last 3 submissions (92 books) I did just that.

32 I was dead on, 39 I undergraded, and 22 I overgraded. It was pretty entertaining for me.

 

Not bad, Nikos - if this was baseball, you'd be leading the league in hitting!

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm in no way saying that "CGC is the only source of accurate grading and we all need to learn at the altar of CGC."

 

I think you could make an argument that CGC has raised the bar for "true NM" by a point or higher, in part so that a greater number of "tiers" at the high end of the spectrum could be introduced by CGC and accepted by the public. This in turn has led many down the "highgrade mania" path, and as we know, this eventually leads to madness, or at least speculation.

 

But your "success rate" is illustrative of this point: even very knowledgeable graders can't consistently predict CGC's grades. Is that a good thing? Not in my opinion.