THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[Superman2006]

Yeah, that would be nice, but it's probably not going to happen anytime soon!

 

[Math Teacher]

On 1/14/2022 at 11:06 PM, KCOComics said:

I posted about this month's ago when books like Hulk 181 and X1 were going through the roof. I was amazed at how few board members considered cashing out.  Allot of people on these boards suddenly had a vacation home worth of old paper in their closets and yet you really didn't hear that consideration.

Instead you got a bunch of grumpy collectors coming to terms with how expensive this hobby has become....And I was one of those grumpy collectors.

Being honest, I have thought about selling some of the big books out of my collection. I sold several big books (GSXM #1 7.5 and IH #181 8.5) to help finance my purchase of SC #4. For me, it came down to this: I am proud of my collection, and I like knowing that I have a book like AF #15 2.5. However, a large influence on my decision was the tax implications.

It would be similar to the situation that my Mom found herself in before she passed away. She was given an 80-acre plot by her father in his will. If she sold this plot while she was alive, she would have had to pay capital gains tax on almost the entire proceeds of the sale, as she was given this property basically for free. However, if she kept the plot until she passed away, the value of that 80-acre plot would get a new cost-basis based on what the farm was worth when she died. We sold this farm about three months after my Mom passed away, and we heirs did not have to pay a single dime in taxes.

I want the same thing to occur with my collection when I die. My family has absolutely no interest in my comic books, so I have instructed them to sell them as soon as possible after I die. If I were to sell my collection today, I would pay a significant amount in taxes (as an example, I have absolutely no idea how much I paid for my copy of Fantastic Four #1 (which is currently valued at between $18,000 and $20,000). This means that I would have to pay capital gains on all of the proceeds of the sale, minus $0.10 (the cost of the comic when it came out). If I keep my collection until I die, my collection will get a new cost-basis based on its worth on the day that I die. My family could sell it shortly afterwards and have to pay virtually no taxes on the proceeds.

So, I enjoy my collection while I am alive, and I know that I am providing my wife and children a large financial safety net for the future. That's win-win in my book.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Math Teacher

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/15/2022 at 3:59 AM, Math Teacher said:

So this mark was on the CGC case or the plastic bag that was holding the case?

Sorry Maths, I should have put some words with that. Two different copies, just to show the difference. Oddest looking tear I've ever seen!

[Kalel38]

It’s a good thing I don’t live in the US there ain’t no capital gains tax on collectibles here.. Collectibles are tax free and that means comic books 👌

[TupennyConan]

On 1/15/2022 at 12:50 AM, Math Teacher said:

If I keep my collection until I die, my collection will get a new cost-basis based on its worth on the day that I die. My family could sell it shortly afterwards and have to pay virtually no taxes on the proceeds.

Stepped-up basis was on the chopping block all throughout 2021. Keep an eye on it for 2022 & beyond. 

[namisgr]

For the top 1% of earners only under consideration for change.  It's currently one of the biggest loopholes there is in the arsenal of the super wealthy.

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by namisgr

[peewee22]

On 1/14/2022 at 11:50 PM, Math Teacher said:

Being honest, I have thought about selling some of the big books out of my collection. I sold several big books (GSXM #1 7.5 and IH #181 8.5) to help finance my purchase of SC #4. For me, it came down to this: I am proud of my collection, and I like knowing that I have a book like AF #15 2.5. However, a large influence on my decision was the tax implications.

It would be similar to the situation that my Mom found herself in before she passed away. She was given an 80-acre plot by her father in his will. If she sold this plot while she was alive, she would have had to pay capital gains tax on almost the entire proceeds of the sale, as she was given this property basically for free. However, if she kept the plot until she passed away, the value of that 80-acre plot would get a new cost-basis based on what the farm was worth when she died. We sold this farm about three months after my Mom passed away, and we heirs did not have to pay a single dime in taxes.

I want the same thing to occur with my collection when I die. My family has absolutely no interest in my comic books, so I have instructed them to sell them as soon as possible after I die. If I were to sell my collection today, I would pay a significant amount in taxes (as an example, I have absolutely no idea how much I paid for my copy of Fantastic Four #1 (which is currently valued at between $18,000 and $20,000). This means that I would have to pay capital gains on all of the proceeds of the sale, minus $0.10 (the cost of the comic when it came out). If I keep my collection until I die, my collection will get a new cost-basis based on its worth on the day that I die. My family could sell it shortly afterwards and have to pay virtually no taxes on the proceeds.

So, I enjoy my collection while I am alive, and I know that I am providing my wife and children a large financial safety net for the future. That's win-win in my book.

Good info. I enjoy your posts.

[Jordysnordy]

On 1/15/2022 at 12:38 AM, Beige said:

Not unless you fancied a trip 'down-under'  

He can quarantine with that joker of a tennis player 😆 

[Math Teacher]

On 1/15/2022 at 5:48 AM, namisgr said:

For the top 1% of earners only under consideration for change.  It's currently one of the biggest loopholes there is in the arsenal of the super wealthy.

 

I just want to make sure I understand your post. If there is going to be a change to the stepped-up cost basis, is it only going to affect the uber-wealthy, or will it apply to us all?

[namisgr]

On 1/15/2022 at 10:27 AM, Math Teacher said:

I just want to make sure I understand your post. If there is going to be a change to the stepped-up cost basis, is it only going to affect the uber-wealthy, or will it apply to us all?

The pass through is currently the same as it's been for many years.  There's been public discussion of potential change that would affect the top ~1% wealthiest only.  Drop me a p.m. if you want to discuss it with me, so that the thread doesn't digress from the selling and buying of AF15s.

Edited January 15, 2022 by namisgr

[alexgross.com]

On 1/15/2022 at 2:00 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Sorry Maths, I should have put some words with that. Two different copies, just to show the difference. Oddest looking tear I've ever seen!

agreed, i've seen plenty of tears, and never one like that. it looks like an attempted repair job. i wouldnt be surprised if there was some gamesmanship in the grading process vis-a-vis what exactly is happening there and whose book it was. 

regardless, i'd be very happy to own that book, i think it looks great otherwise. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/15/2022 at 4:16 PM, alexgross.com said:

agreed, i've seen plenty of tears, and never one like that. it looks like an attempted repair job. i wouldnt be surprised if there was some gamesmanship in the grading process vis-a-vis what exactly is happening there and whose book it was. 

regardless, i'd be very happy to own that book, i think it looks great otherwise. 

Yeah, it's a great book and anyone would be proud to own it. I just can't see how that tear looks natural and, as you say, if it has been 'doctored', then CGC have yet again let the side down with inconsistency. The guy with an AF15 with a microdot of colour touch in a restored holder would likely have the right hump looking at that book. 

[Pantodude]

On 1/15/2022 at 11:25 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Yeah, it's a great book and anyone would be proud to own it. I just can't see how that tear looks natural and, as you say, if it has been 'doctored', then CGC have yet again let the side down with inconsistency. The guy with an AF15 with a microdot of colour touch in a restored holder would likely have the right hump looking at that book. 

Howdy.  It really doesn't look mysterious to me.  Isn't it just the undoing of a tear seal?  Tears seals are most often associated with the spine, but that's what I would expect the glue removal (and any inevitable color loss) to look like on a cover.  In which case, if the glue was removed, it's blue.  Just blue, but a lower blue than had the tear never existed, of course, but also never sealed and then unsealed (imperfectly).  Hence the otherwise nice-looking spine and edges for the grade.    

Edited January 15, 2022 by Pantodude

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/15/2022 at 4:42 PM, Pantodude said:

Howdy.  It really doesn't look mysterious to me.  Isn't it just the undoing of a tear seal?  This usually happens on a spine, but that's what I would expect the glue removal (and any inevitable color loss) to look like on a cover.  In which case, if the glue was removed, it's blue.  Just blue.  

[Pantodude]

To AF15 or not AF15, that is the question.  To my credit, when I was more active buying books, at least I was honest with my wife.  Many moons ago, when she balked at a proposed buy of a higher grade AF15, I exclaimed, "a £100,000 investment could turn into a ton of dough!"  Luckily, she was so taken aback that she never asked me, "How much is a ton of dough?"   Because that's just two thousand pounds.    [Based on a somewhat true story]

Edited January 15, 2022 by Pantodude

[skyline23]

On 1/14/2022 at 5:30 PM, alexgross.com said:

bear in mind that the insane 5.5 price was certainly connected to the very hard to find white pages. a similar looking owwp or c/ow copy would not likely have pulled that price. still, all prices very strong now for this book as we all know. lets see if non-heritage auctions also provide similar numbers.

By rare do you mean rare for AF15s specifically, or for most books from around this time in general? Do white pages typically command a big premium for key books from this era? Sorry for the ignorant questions, I just havent really followed page quality sales deltas much, but would love to learn more. 

[KCOComics]

On 1/16/2022 at 3:02 AM, skyline23 said:

By rare do you mean rare for AF15s specifically, or for most books from around this time in general? Do white pages typically command a big premium for key books from this era? Sorry for the ignorant questions, I just havent really followed page quality sales deltas much, but would love to learn more. 

 

There has been allot of debate about it and there seems to be good data on both sides of the argument. I'll give you my opinion. 

Yes - white pages demand a premium. How much of a premium is up for debate. 

I also think on these big ticket books, the price gap between W and OW is more pronounced. And I say this without data, just my sense. 

Historically speaking, page quality was a bigger deal. I can remember it being a point of emphasis back in the day. I think encapsulation has made the page quality less important (though the B word still scares off many collectors). 

[Pantodude]

On 1/16/2022 at 3:02 AM, skyline23 said:

By rare do you mean rare for AF15s specifically, or for most books from around this time in general? Do white pages typically command a big premium for key books from this era? Sorry for the ignorant questions, I just havent really followed page quality sales deltas much, but would love to learn more. 

White pages (WP) seems to be less common for this issue based on comments on these boards.  Whether or not that is accurate, it is difficult to peg the effect of page quality (PQ) on a hot book like this when every next sale, in any grade and PQ, including cream to off-white (C/OW) and WP, seemingly sets new highs!  

That said, all things being equal, any book of any title/issue with brighter/cleaner front cover, less creases, better back cover, less stains, less Marvel chipping, less tears, or higher page quality, etc. could be expected to fetch more.  That’s common sense.  But in our imperfect market, it’s not so simple to track truly comparable items from sale to sale and across many venues.  To confirm, you would need sales of books that are comparable in all respects except for page quality and see how they do when simultaneously made available to the same buyer. But that rarely happens.

That is why the extent of any premium for PQ (or cover brightness or absence of tears, etc, whatever the aspect being discussed) may depend on the technical grade.  There is often so much already going on with mid- to lower-grade books (accumulation of imperfections) that books in same grade but varying page quality tend to go for about the same so long as they present well overall in light of all physical attributes.  Do you want the book with the brighter/cleaner cover (which you can see), better colors (which you can see), lighter or better-placed crease (which you can see), the sounder staple area (which you can see), better spine or back cover (which you can see), or better interior page quality (which you can’t see unless you open the book)?  And so on and so on.  Overall presentation (i.e., what you can see) seems to be the most important consideration in mid to lower grades, and that goes for any book of any title/issue.  It is consistent with what I have seen tracking sales data for most big keys of the SA (I had reason to).  

And that could be why a premium for white pages is more readily seen only in the higher grades of key books. In such grades, overall presentation is also prioritized, but well-heeled folks are already paying a hefty premium to minimize ALL imperfections (just because they can!).  You generally won't see cover-related issues (front or back) like major creases or stains or tears or staple area weakness.  So it is often difficult to distinguish between slabbed books of the same high grade based on presentation alone (even with slabs in hand) unless you also take into consideration the interior page quality noted on the label. That makes for an ideal “all things being equal situation” that facilitates differentiation based on interior page quality, so premiums for WP happen more often and are otherwise more apparent with higher-grade books nowadays.  

As some vets on these boards note, even if everything is equal except for PQ, such that is seems safe to pay up for interior PQ as a distinguishing factor, not all WPs are equal. What might be WP one day when graded could come back OW/W or even OW on resubmission, or vice-versa.  It has happened.  Sometimes the year in which the book was graded matters, too, if CGC evaluated page quality differently at times.  But generally speaking, most folks trust the label's PQ designations up to a point.  A quick peak at a slab's edge/profile could help evaluate interior page quality.  But even then, interior pages could still warrant WP if just the edges are toned, so there you go.  You also have the separate issue of the interior of the front and back cover, which may not coincide with the label's PQ designation (covers often have toning on the interiors that may not be reflected in the label's PQ designation).    

Long post, but hopefully helpful.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Pantodude

[Subby1938]

Just dropped my AF15 in old  slab at my LCS. The owners copy is beside mine both are headed to CGC for reholderimg and custom labels . Look good for 1.5s. We figured it would be a cool photograph to have both matching copies side by side.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Subby1938

[gadzukes]

On 1/15/2022 at 7:29 PM, Subby1938 said:

I think it’s absolutely criminal and disgusting that your government taxes make believe priced items to take a cut . Why? If you took your comics to any major bank and sai I need a loan here is my collateral they would laugh you out . So the feds tax this  It’s ludicrous I’d never ever pay them a penny for my used collectables most of which are older than I am . 

Also, consider how many times a single comic might exchange hands thru the years.  Each time... tax tax tax.