Silver Pedigree Hierarchy?

[rob_react]

If anyone has any information on the Northland books, the X-Men in particularly, I would love to have it. Any old scans, pictures, serial numbers from the CGC, certificates, page qualities, who owns what, or original sales lists would be fantastic. Anything to add to my ever growing file of information.

 

no X-men books but Northland nonetheless. I had more Northland books than I thought..

 

 

Great book.

[Timeless icons]

I snagged me the sweet pacific coast x men 12 9.8. Funny thing is, most of it was a gift.

 

Do people generally prefer pedigrees over SS books? I know they typically sell for more than the standard label. Id prefer a pedigree myself. While I like the SS books at times, I feel that some books just shouldnt be marked at all. Just my thoughts.

 

The book or the grade?

 

I much prefer pedigrees to SS books ... but then I prefer non-pedigree books to SS books.

 

The book.

[the420kid]

If anyone has any information on the Northland books, the X-Men in particularly, I would love to have it. Any old scans, pictures, serial numbers from the CGC, certificates, page qualities, who owns what, or original sales lists would be fantastic. Anything to add to my ever growing file of information.

 

no X-men books but Northland nonetheless. I had more Northland books than I thought..

 

 

Great book.

 

my favorite too

[paul747]

Twin cities copy TTA 83

this book looks wet. its so bright ! nice.I think i like the twin city books ! I also can't believe some of the pacific coasts. It also seems like some of the silver sucha news are mehhh... but the bronze Sucha are real nice.

[southerncross]

Twin cities copy TTA 83

this book looks wet. its so bright ! nice.I think i like the twin city books ! I also can't believe some of the pacific coasts. It also seems like some of the silver sucha news are mehhh... but the bronze Sucha are real nice.

 

I agree with the look of the Suscha books. The twin cities do look sweet.

here is a pic of TTA 84 from twin city pedigree

 

[southerncross]

Big Apple copy of TTA 69, Not a big fan as the silverage books from this collection were stored on the shelves in the open not in chests like their golden age companions. But I do like the clean black cover .

 

[paul747]

Twin cities copy TTA 83

this book looks wet. its so bright ! nice.I think i like the twin city books ! I also can't believe some of the pacific coasts. It also seems like some of the silver sucha news are mehhh... but the bronze Sucha are real nice.

 

I agree with the look of the Suscha books. The twin cities do look sweet.

here is a pic of TTA 84 from twin city pedigree

 

Man ! THE TWIN CITY'S COVERS ARE SO NICE.... THEY LOOK SO BRIGHT.

[namisgr]

The Twin Cities collection is indeed gorgeous. To my eye, the Marvels trail only the Pacific Coast and Curator collections in overall consistent quality, and are roughly on par with the Massachusetts collection. I attended the NYC Heritage auction that brought the collection to market in 2011, and met Gary Dahlberg's surviving family there. It was a special, bittersweet day for the family. The collection as a whole was awesome, and that day alone raised over a million dollars for the heirs.

 

[jbud73]

After getting into a bit of a nasty argument in General yesterday over the SS of Pedigrees, its nice to be back home in the SA Comics forum seeing all these great books.

 

One of the Peds that really left an impression on me was the Curator Pedigree. Actually opening a SA Curator and seeing the PQ in a book that old, well it really is a time capsule or awesomeness.

 

Thanks to everyone for posting their Pedigrees here. The ASM 1 Winnipeg, was indeed a 8.5 press and resub (I'm assuming it was pressed, but going from old label to new is usually a safe bet) and is now in a 9.0 holder. It was offered at Comiclink for a while, not sure if it sold, I think it was taken off the site without selling.

[jbud73]

so, not surprisingly, we've done this before:

 

Follow up: Rank the Silver/Bronze Pedis

 

My answer then:

 

1. Pacific Coast*: Best combination of quality and breadth. The outrageous later DCs that have been in Heritage's recent auctions are perfect PC books to me. Titles that a lot of the SA pedigrees don't include in grades that are unheard of in general from books of the period.

2. White Mountain*: Great quality, amazing breadth. My single most wanted book is from WM, by the way. The DD#1. The FF#1 is pretty high on that list too.

3. Western Penn*: High quality and, from what I gather, pretty deep.

4. Curator*: Insane quality.

5. Massachusetts: Seems like a fat pile of early Marvel 9.4s and 9.2s to me. I don't know enough detail to rate it any higher.

6. Bethlehem*: Too many VFs to rate any higher, WAY too many books to rate any lower.

7. Boston: Phenomenal quality, nice DC representation, not early enough to rank any higher (unless I'm mistaken and there are a bunch of keys out there.)

8. Green River*: Really nice books, not terribly deep/important.

9. Northland*. Nice books, but I don't really know enough about it at all beyond the books that I've seen, so I stick it here.

 

I'll repeat it here, since I like to repeat it often- I'm looking for ANY and ALL White Mountain Daredevils.

 

Rob, as you know besides Pedigree Man, sfilosa who don't post anymore, this topic has always been near and dear. Of course then there's Adamstrange and namisgr and barton (sorry dude know you have a bunch -- nochips, has a lot of Mass books, Shin who had all those Green Rivers ..... a whole bunch of other collectors on here, including you who are also a lexicon of Pedigree knowledge.

 

I encourage ppl to visit the original Post your Pedigrees thread started in 2004 by sfilosa.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=537547

 

Post your books in there and read the thread it will blow your mind if all the links are still good - hint mine are.

 

Here are my two standing thoughts on SA Pedigrees.

 

1. Pac Coast RULZ

 

2. SA DC Peds get overlooked big time - uh hence rule #1 because the Pac Coast DCs are awesome.

 

Other quick thoughts.

 

The White Mountains do not get enough respect, though in your list they are #2, and the WM DCs are awesome too.

 

Leaving the Winnipeg's off that list is I know that contravenes rule #2 but the Winnipeg's are better than the Green Rivers (and I own about 50 GRs), Bethlehem's and Boston's (I mean who knows how many were or actually were not in that Pedigree - some ppl believe a certain dealer is still making certificates )

 

Oakland's again I might be biased because I bought a bunch of of Vinnie back in the day but they have great BA DCs, of course their SA Marvel's are not as goos as others and that hurts.

 

TCs or Rocky Mountains? Talk amongst yourselves.

 

The Savannah's get a bad rap but the DC's, lots of Top census by a mile and I hear the Pre-Heros are great too.

 

I've thought about Ped's this way from time to Time, if you could make a Frankenstein Pedigree what would it be in each category?

 

SA Marvels

SA DCs

Late Atomic Age (Here the Bethlem Peg would make up points)

Maybe throw in

BA DCs

BA Marvel's

 

And other Somewhat lesser known Pedigrees that don't get as much discussion.

 

Bowling Green

Cleveland

 

[jbud73]

The thing about the Curators is that the full extent of the collection's quality will probably never be known--it's possible it would be king over Pacific Coast if the original owner hadn't sold different parts of the collection to different dealers. The original owner is still around as far as I know, and several dealers know more about the books that were in it, so interviews could yield a fuller count. Brulato got only a few of the Marvel runs via John Hauser, Jurgens bought FF 2 through 100, someone else bought FF #1--but the odds are good it's in a slab but nobody knows it's a Curator, my guess is the 9.4 that sold in the 2002 Jay Parrino auction--but the rest got spread to the wind before Hauser and Brulato got to them. Hauser thinks that Harley Yee got a bunch of them and sold them before Brulato ever saw them, possibly some or all of the DC titles--someone could ask Harley sometime if they're up for it. The original owner told Hauser that he had a full run of DC and Marvel from the stands starting in the late 1950s. He also collected back and bought an extensive Golden Age collection as well. He actively attended cons for decades as well, which is where Hauser found him trying to sell to dealers some of the Curators which he managed to get himself.

 

Hauser told me all of this in 2003 or 2004--I interviewed him about the collection intending to write a series of articles for CBG about Silver Age pedigrees. He told me at that time about Jurgens but asked that I not release his name publicly; he said he had told Brulato about Jurgens and regretted it because Brulato apparently made an attempt to get the books directly from Jurgens, and Jurgens was pissed about it. I regret not finishing those articles, but I gave up after talking to Matt Nelson about his pedigree book--I abandoned my project to let him take it over. I didn't guess back then that a decade later Matt still wouldn't have finished his Golden Age pedigree book, much less the Silver Age version he planned to release after the Golden Age version was done.

 

 

DC Curators

[jbud73]

Another shameless plug for the Post Your Peds thread in General started by my old buddy Steve Filosa.

 

How about getting a chance to see this book (owned by joeypost), along with some of the best Pedigree copies from the GA, SA and BA ever.

 

[jbud73]

I have probably as many Pedigree books as just about anyone on here and can tell you for sure there is NO heirarchy. Each Ped has their good and bad. I have SA Pacific Coasts that look worse than a SA Savannah. If I had to pick a favorite though, it would probably be Curators. Curator is probably the only Ped that every single copy I have is outstanding. I'm sure there are probably some out there but I've yet to see a Curator book that I wasnt impressed with (thumbs u

 

That Avengers 2 or yours will always be a fav of mine, its awesome.

[jbud73]

 

I for one, know I jump on the band wagon accusing CGC of slapping Pedigrees on any old collection as of late - but I must say they were thorough on their homework with these two collections. Because again the amount of books and QUALITY of some of the key runs were insane - but even so CGC would not authorize these to get Pedigree credentials.

CGC was very industrious and or there is more scuttlebutt to these collections than we know.

 

I'm commenting on existing pedigrees here.....

When Mark Haspel was there, every individual book submitted as a Pedigree, was reviewed by Mark. If you submitted a Ped for grading and Mark was on vacation, you waited.

I'm not sure if the verification process is as thorough today. I would like to see the process improved. You should not get a pedigree on the label simply because you put it on the submission form. It seems like that's all it takes lately. I question the integrity of a lot of pedigree books = are they genuine or not.

 

Thanks for bringing this up. I too came to understand that Haspel and Borock were the only ones who could give a Ped on the label the Green Light. I was also asked for more information back in the mid-2000s, Invoices dealer corroboration etc etc. than has been the case lately.

 

Now that Matt is there, or in house maybe its him? I mean I hope so, or others were Pedigree trained?

[MatterEaterLad]

No love for the Circle 8 ped?

 

[tth2]

No love for the Circle 8 ped?

 

Too sporadic and inconsistent a collection.

[Azkaban]

I love the White Mountain's but I've picked up some Bowling Green's lately and they're not bad at all but that's probably because I work there.

[MatterEaterLad]

No love for the Circle 8 ped?

 

Too sporadic and inconsistent a collection.

 

The collection was 90,000 books. Makes me wonder if the sheer volume diluted the quality. Maybe if the collection was just presented as the best 15,000 or somesuch, instead of 10 copies of everything.

 

[MatterEaterLad]

Hmmm...just checked the list of CGC recognized peds and Circle 8 is gone. I know the Diamond Run had its status revoked, any others come to mind?

 

 

[southerncross]

Cannot see on the list from the link 'from the estate of Lee Falk'

pedigree, maybe that was issued as all the books were graded by them and there are no other raw copies that exist.