Silver Pedigree Hierarchy?

[The-Collector]

.... you left Northland off the list.... and they are terribly fantastic. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

P.S. Western Penn's and Curators are the two that usually seem to rise to the top in these types of discussions..... but I've never seen either in the flesh.

 

This is as good a place to ask as any - I've always been wondering, what exactly are the Curators?

 

...... the most bizarre (arguably) of all the Pedigrees..... supposedly amassed by a museum curator and kept in the museum's climate controlled environment.... finally to be sold offf to fund the gentleman's sex change operation.... this is NOT a joke. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Not a joke but the way you put it made me chuckle.

[tth2]

Check out the Vancouver collection, pristine pages.

 

No doubt. Too bad there weren't more comic collectors in the Klondike in the 40s.

Back in 1993, I was passing through White Horse of all places, and happened to see a comic store which was run by a deaf mute guy (his young son did the talking for him) and ended up picking up some really nice mid-1960s DCs that came from a collection that had been accumulated there. Very fresh books with unbelievably white pages.

 

Unfortunately I had just graduated from law school and could barely scrape together the money for even my meager purchase. I so wish I had had the money to clean the guy out.

[tth2]

Thanks for the info...I have 3 Boston's, all very sharp books as you've stated. (thumbs u

Very fresh books, with LOTS of duplicates.

 

But like the Rocky Mountains and Suschas, which are all very nice books, it`s just silly to call a collection that is mostly post-1965 books a "pedigree".

[tth2]

Here's mine...... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

P.S. At one time I owned 3 copies..... the 8.0 Toronto, the 7.5 Jerry Weist, and a low to mid grade autographed by Jack AND Roz Kirby...... but I decided not to be greedy.

 

Beautiful book, Jimbo!

 

John Severin!

[rob_react]

Thanks for the info...I have 3 Boston's, all very sharp books as you've stated. (thumbs u

Very fresh books, with LOTS of duplicates.

 

In the raw box I saw there were maybe 3-5 of each book.

[Johnny545]

There are Northford SA books also.

 

In terms of hierarchy I would say:

 

Bethlehem

White Mountain

Northford

Big Apple

 

Top 4 for me.

 

[bronze johnny]

In terms of genres, I've yet to see SA war comics nicer than those coming out of the Boston Pedigree collection.

 

Savannah seems to have the best SA Romance books despite any issues collectors may have with pq.

 

 

 

[Icculus308win]

The Bethlehem Ped. from what I own, have seen, or bid on - consist of some great multiple copies of Gold Key/Dell "Movie Classics," & "One Shots."

 

The Slobodian collection is one I feel should have been "officially" recognized as a Pedigree.

I'm bias because I have gotten to know Calvin well and consider him a friend and mentor when it comes to my Gold Key and F.C/Dell books. I have purchased close to fifty books from him over the past few years.

He is such a neat individual. A dedicated family man who is so sincere, extremely knowledgeable and passionate about his books and comics in general. So very generous and a strict grader in all my dealings - just pleasure to deal with. I'm very grateful for the friendship that has come from our communications of funny books. He's good people IMHO.

 

Over 50% of my Ben Bowie and Smokey Bear books in my sets are from his collection. And 40% of my Movie Classics (Dell & Gold Key) and my Gold Key One Shots are from Calvin.

And mind you, I collect 9.4 ow/w or better SA books - he has truly amassed some butes from when he originally purchased them off the newsstands and stored and cared for them properly.

 

I'm very indebted to Calvin - wish his collection would have been given it's rightful place as Pedigree.

[adamstrange]

In terms of genres, I've yet to see SA war comics nicer than those coming out of the Boston Pedigree collection.

 

They are nice but post '65 war comics are reasonably available in high grade.

 

For war books, the Salida and Newsboy collection offer some of the best copies from the most difficult time period -- the 50s.

 

Salida

Salida

Salida

 

Newsboy

Newsboy

 

 

 

[bronze johnny]

Agreed as to the difficulty of the period these pedigrees represent but the easier to locate Bostons, particularly the OAAW DCs have some amazing 9.6 copies with incredible pq. I have never seen books with such gloss. Moreover, if my memory serves me correctly, I don't recall seeing the post '65 Bostons with any markings and/or date stamps on the front cover. Let me also point out that the more difficult black cover Boston above the 9.4 grades are extremely difficult to find and imho, especially where the pq is better than ow-w. The best example of this is the Boston Copy of OAAW 168. I have yet to see a better pedigree war book, especially one with a black cover. And a "black cover" war book in a grade exceeding 9.4 is quite rare. Love the Salida and Newsboy books you posted -simply beautiful.

[adamstrange]

I like Bostons, but there are Mass copies of the war books that are nice even if their pq is not as good. There are Curators which will match up for gloss/pq. I think there are Green Rivers and Don Rosas but would want someone else to confirm. Basically, even if Boston is the best, it is possible to obtain a pedigree copy that is substantially similar.

 

Even the difference in quality between Boston and the best non-peds are not near so great as there are many beautifully preserved collections that don't get the pedigree label but are at a similar quality level as Bostons. By 1966 it was far more common for there to be collectors like the Twin Cities/PC/Oakland guys who carefully selected and stored the books. It seems likely that more copies will be added to the census over time.

 

I looked up the census on OAAW 168 and there are 13 copies of OAAW 168 above 8.0, including a 9.4, a 9.6 and a 9.8. By comparison there is one copy above 8.0 for all 5 issues that I posted: a 9.2 of OFF 21. One. And that's after several years of heated demand and high prices for books of that era.

 

P.S. I would like to point out that according to the latest posts in the War thread that DC War prices have collapsed, the books suck and owners of high grade copies only hope is to sell cheaply before they become mere bird cage liner.

[comick1]

I like Bostons, but there are Mass copies of the war books that are nice even if their pq is not as good.

 

I looked up the census on OAAW 168 and there are 13 copies of OAAW 168 above 8.0, including a 9.4, a 9.6 and a 9.8. By comparison there is one copy above 8.0 for all 5 issues that I posted: a 9.2 of OFF 21. One. And that's after several years of heated demand and high prices for books of that era.

 

Mass. copy

 

That hasn't been out of the mylite since I bought it from Marnin 22 years ago to look at the pages & read the story, seems like as good a time as any to break it out, scan it, and see how the pages'd rate. I'm going with ow-w. . .possibly white. I don't anticipate this one joining its census brethren any time soon. . .what with the bottom dropping out of the DC war market and all. :wishluck: :wishluck:

 

Here are a few more Salidas and Newsboys.

 

Newsboy (Motor City)

 

 

Newsboy (Motor City)

 

 

Newsboy (Motor City)

 

 

Salida

 

 

Salida

 

 

Salida

[bronze johnny]

No issue as to the rarity of war pedigrees from the early SA. If the original post's question should include the scarcity of the type of books a pedigree has as a factor in determining where that collection should rank on the "hierarchy list" then there's no question the pedigrees you mention would rank higher than the post '65ers. Technically speaking, the Bostons have some of the best war copies with incredible pq that I've seen.

As for substantially similar pedigree war books, the Mass books are beauties and I've yet to see any Green Rivers or Curators. The Don Rosas war books that I have seen are BA and are incredible.

You'll get no disagreement from me about the possibility of private war collections out there being as nice or better than the Bostons, but are we not discussing and comparing pedigrees to one another in the context of the Silver Age?

And if or when war copies from other pedigree collections surface (assuming they exist?) and turn out to be nicer than the Bostons, I'll be one of the first to appreciate and admire these books.

Not sure what the "DC War books sux" reference is for- I have them in my collection and don't plan on selling them no matter what the state of the market is. I love the Kubert covers and consider some of his post 65 stuff to be the best ever done in the war genre (guess that makes me bias towards this period).

 

One question as it pertains to pedigree war books since early SA war books are scarcer in higher grades than those issued in the later stages. So is it really correct to say that pedigrees covering the early SA where high grade and top census books could be a 9.0 are superior to collections covering later years where the technical grades reach the 9.6 - 9.8 levels? Is it fair to even compare war pedigrees from different periods of an Age?

The question as to the superiority of SA war pedigree is not a simple one to answer if possible at all. The discussion and exploration of this issue is interesting and the opinions like yours, adamstrange, are always sought and well respected.

[bronze johnny]

Amazing books- especially the 168!

[Sqeggs]

In terms of genres, I've yet to see SA war comics nicer than those coming out of the Boston Pedigree collection.

 

They are nice but post '65 war comics are reasonably available in high grade.

 

For war books, the Salida and Newsboy collection offer some of the best copies from the most difficult time period -- the 50s.

 

Salida

Salida

Salida

 

Newsboy

Newsboy

 

 

 

Really nice group of books!

[adamstrange]

Not sure what the "DC War books sux" reference is for- I have them in my collection and don't plan on selling them no matter what the state of the market is. I love the Kubert covers and consider some of his post 65 stuff to be the best ever done in the war genre (guess that makes me bias towards this period).

I was joking.

 

[adamstrange]

No issue as to the rarity of war pedigrees from the early SA. If the original post's question should include the scarcity of the type of books a pedigree has as a factor in determining where that collection should rank on the "hierarchy list" then there's no question the pedigrees you mention would rank higher than the post '65ers.

You are probably not aware that I've long advocated that a pedigree designation for a post 1965 book is of far more limited value than for books of earlier vintage.

 

Different people can define "best" in different ways and have done so in this thread. For example, WMs rank high for some because it includes all the Marvel keys in high grade. Its set of keys are far superior to the keys of any other pedigree.

 

When I discuss "best" war pedigrees, I always mention Salida and Newsboy as they include keys like Salida OAAW 83, GIC 56, SSWS 45 and Newsboy GIC 44 and SSWS 45. Their copies are obviously superior to the other copies of 1950s issues that I have seen, ped or non-ped. I think that both of these facts can be potential considerations when defining "best" and therefore offered some background in this thread.

[Ghost Town]

The Curator FF run that came on Heritage (which the Boards were actually instrumental in identifying as being the Curators) were a revelation in that they clearly established that the collection goes earlier than the mythical 1963 cut-off and those pre-1963 books are spectacular--I almost fell off my chair when the scan of FF 5 was posted.

I think I was the guy who initially tipped off Steve B. and Heritage about the Curator FFs. It was an an act of pure comic book altruism. Man, that was dumb.

[namisgr]

The Curator FF run that came on Heritage (which the Boards were actually instrumental in identifying as being the Curators) were a revelation in that they clearly established that the collection goes earlier than the mythical 1963 cut-off and those pre-1963 books are spectacular--I almost fell off my chair when the scan of FF 5 was posted.

I think I was the guy who initially tipped off Steve B. and Heritage about the Curator FFs. It was an an act of pure comic book altruism. Man, that was dumb.

 

It's true, it's Barton's fault that we aren't wondering today why the Northstar pedigree consisted solely of spectacular looking Fantastic Four comics.

 

I went to the NYC Heritage auction to get a first hand look at the Curator FF books, and came away thinking that they were the finest looking early SA Marvels that I had ever seen in over 40 years of collecting, with white cover stock and brilliant inks appearing nearly brand new. They were a treat to behold.

[bronze johnny]

No doubt the "content" of the Salidas and Newsboy books contain some of the most significant keys in the history of the SA war genre. I think it's safe to say that any pedigrees focusing on the earlier SA where the most important keys are found will almost always trump later collections.

 

The points you make about post '65 pedigree designation brings me back to the question of comparing earlier SA pedigree collections to those focused on the latter part of the SA. The technical grades for the post '65 war books are, on average, higher than those of the late 50s. Among the most significant "qualities" of the pedigree war collections of the later SA are the technical grades these books have achieved, which is historically unusual for this genre. Older pedigrees will have the better content of key books while the newer collections will, in most cases, rank higher when it comes to the average technical grade.

 

Agreed as to the value of post '65 war books in relation to their predecessors.