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how much $ have you made/lost on your comic collection?

Started by johnnycoolxx,

89 posts in this topic

BassGMan

BassGMan

Posted
Posted
Cap. Of Industry was a bit steamed here about a month ago regarding the first app. of Captain Marvel I believe. Jason Ewert had purchased the book or sniped it after COI had put in a very agressive bid for the slabbed 9.8. No he wasnt upset at losing out on the book - though I'm sure thats part of it. He was upset to a large degree because he knew that Ewert didn't purchase it for his collection, he purchased for a customer, or to flip it

 

You summed up my aggrivation nicely, but Ewert was the seller and Comiclink(Josh) was the buyer.

 

Welcome to the world of business. To be upset you lost a book that you wanted is understandable. We've all lost out on some books before. But the reasons someone else has in outbidding you, for whatever purposes (to read, to fill a gap, to flip or to use as wallpaper) what in the hell does it matter? Obviously if someone else outbids you for the reason of flipping, then there is someone out there willing to pay alot more for it than you. Welcome to the world of business. Don't forget, dealing in collectibles is dealing in business. -----Sid

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FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted

 

sign-offtopic.gif I am still looking for those frustrated.gif hidden messages. Anyone find them all?

 

Dan

 

The only one I can remember offhand was from the Groo Graphic Novel. If you put together the names of all of the towns that Groo visited, they went something like this: "Dishus Dahid Denmess Edgefort Hissish Yu-Yu Haffloke Aytedd."

 

acclaim.gif

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jbud73

jbud73

Posted
Posted
Cap. Of Industry was a bit steamed here about a month ago regarding the first app. of Captain Marvel I believe. Jason Ewert had purchased the book or sniped it after COI had put in a very agressive bid for the slabbed 9.8. No he wasnt upset at losing out on the book - though I'm sure thats part of it. He was upset to a large degree because he knew that Ewert didn't purchase it for his collection, he purchased for a customer, or to flip it

 

You summed up my aggrivation nicely, but Ewert was the seller and Comiclink(Josh) was the buyer.

 

Welcome to the world of business. To be upset you lost a book that you wanted is understandable. We've all lost out on some books before. But the reasons someone else has in outbidding you, for whatever purposes (to read, to fill a gap, to flip or to use as wallpaper) what in the hell does it matter? Obviously if someone else outbids you for the reason of flipping, then there is someone out there willing to pay alot more for it than you. Welcome to the world of business. Don't forget, dealing in collectibles is dealing in business. -----Sid

 

See Sid here I have a problem with your quote even though I understand where you are coming from it serves to illustrate the nature of the beast and why there is a measure of angst in this hobby. The dealers make money not off of a business but off of a medium. That is to say there would be very little business if all the people purchasing comics did so for purely monetary reasons. I cant think of too many auctions were sellers quoted "Its a business thats why you have to pay X $$ for a book." A collectables based industry such as comic books is predicated to a large extent on grass roots collector base and an appeal to the artform. You can only push the pragmatic argument so far before it becomes self serving, if we are all in it to make money as a prime reason then really why are we in it at all. There has to be a differentiation, there has to be someone to sell to and in the comics medium that person is usually a collector with an appreciation of something other than the profit potential.

 

The thing that I think irks me more that anything else is the double faced nature of "its a business arguements" I'm NOT denying that comics is an industry, but vendors do not appeal to the industry to sell, NO they appeal to the nostalgia interwoven with the artistry of the medium. And I buy that appeal. To be frank I think we all understand that its a sellers market RIGHT NOW, but I for one would appreciate a little more candour from the sellers, because thats NOT always going to be the case.

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shrunkenhead

shrunkenhead

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Have to echo Jbud's sentiments here....speaking from personal experience, when comics are hot, you're likely to get a lot of brash cockiness from dealers along the lines of bass' sentiments (i.e. "don't like me? tough sh**, it's a business"). However, when the cycle changes and things are running cold, dealers suddenly want to put their arm around you, be your pal, "buy from me because I care about comics," blah blah blah, etc., etc.

 

You can't have it both ways. if BassG is fine with current practices because "it's a business," he and other flippers won't have any right to complain when collectors opt to shun his wares during the cycle's downtime. As a semi-closeknit group of fellow collectors/dealers, I think it's tantamount that we show respect for each other, and treat each other with courtesy and kindness (sounds hokey I know). There are more important things than being the highest bidder or the biggest seller, especially where true longevity of the hobby is concerned. For lack of a better word, humanity is what keeps the "business" going, not a longbox full of CGC 9.8s. Who do you want to buy your comics from, some or a dude who'll talk your ear off without an agenda, a guy who obviously loves the hobby and respects your love for the hobby as well?

 

Call me naive, but the day that comics become solely about "business", I'm going to cash out forever (I know, I know, some of you have said it's all about business already and I still refuse to believe you!). If thats the sentiment of dealers and collectors, why not just put on a three-piece suit, get an MBA, and get it over with?

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BassGMan

BassGMan

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Posted

Hi guys, I appreciate the intelligent debate here about this.

 

I don't think ANYONE has stated that comics has become solely ABOUT business as Shrunk just closed with. It is about business and an art form. Everyone involved sways somewhere in the middle between business and art (entertainment) although there are many (if not most) that are closer to one side or the other. I may be chatting up flipping here on this thread, but I actually consider myself right in the middle of the art side and the flipping side. I don't read my books, but I love my books nonetheless. I also like to try out new varieties as my tastes change over the years. Flipping makes this a fun and profitable way to do this.

 

I am very aware of all the small to large comic book transactions that I am involved in, and I give it thought, but certainly not every transaction is with the intention of profiting.

 

Regarding brash cockiness or a dealer wanting to be your buddy, I think each dealer (flipper) needs to be judged individually on that one. I do not think I have ever demonstrated either of those traits ever, in any deal, regardless of market sentiment at the time, whether online or at cons. I also disagree that this is a seller's market. Oh yes, some books have done very well, and of course we have the CGC effect to help out. But there are a majority of books that all dealers have that will never make it out of the dollar, or even quarter boxes. Depending on what you are looking at, it is equally a buyer's or a seller's market. Want Silver or Bronze 9.6's or 9.8s? Seller's market. Want Silver or Bronze non-key 5.0 to 7.0s? It's a buyer's market. Not to mention the raw books selling for less than guide due to overgrading seller concerns.

 

Ragarding complaining when the cycle turns down? Hey, I sure didn't like it when the stock market tanked, and if I buy a $100 book tomorrow and can't sell it in a year for more than $50? Oh well, that's the markets for ya'. Comes with the territory. Accept the fact that no investment is a sure thing or don't invest, in anything. "True fans" just in it for the love of the art form do realize that when they are buying an original book that is worth alot of money that they are indeed buying into a collectible with a notated market value. I mean geez, there are always trade paperbacks that come really cheap if you just want to read and peruse the art.

 

I understand that some collectors with no or little concern of reselling for a profit may look at flippers as a little sleazy or as not true comic enthusiests. They are entitled, but they are wrong. Name one flipper that is not a huge comic fan himself? confused-smiley-013.gif893scratchchin-thumb.gif -----------Sid

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read_em-migration

read_em-migration

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Posted

lol! Only on this Board could someone who advocates the actual reading of comics be called a "snob" or an "elitist"! Does the irony of that elude you guys? (Some of you, anyway - I see some guys get it thumbsup2.gif). Well, in the context of this discussion, I will wear those labels like a badge of honor.

 

I am guessing that if someone did not have a great interest in the comics themselves, he would have no interest in flipping them.

 

Jay Parrino anyone?

 

I don't like it when people act as if my collecting/buying/selling style is "not worthy" of a true comics fan.

Sorry you don't like it - but I'll say it flat out - you're style is not worthy of a true (wait, let's not overuse "true" - how about "total"? "Well-rounded"?) comics fan. Comics are the perfect combo of Art and Literature - so by avoiding the Lit part, the most you can be (by definiton of a comic's intended use) is 50% total (true) fan. Tell me now if you have a reading problem or dyslexia or something, and I'll lighten the hell up. If not, then...

 

But it really bugs me when others doubt my love of comics just because I also like to make money off of them.

 

No, actually I doubt your love of comics because you don't read them! makepoint.gif In fact, I think you're actually proud that you don't read them (didn't you start an entire thread based on this?) You can take the whole CGC/speculator thing out of my argument (see Murph) and it still stays the same. I can't respect anyone who claims to love comics but never reads them. In musical terms, that person would be a Poser. Even if I don't like some of the bigger Speculators, I can respect them because they're not posers - they read comics at least.

 

And geez Read_em, so I'm a cover and art guy, not a reader, so what?

Exactly. You have no idea why I would feel this way. I feel sorry for you. Sad, really. Maybe some day your tastes will mature...

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted
Cap. Of Industry was a bit steamed here about a month ago regarding the first app. of Captain Marvel I believe. Jason Ewert had purchased the book or sniped it after COI had put in a very agressive bid for the slabbed 9.8. No he wasnt upset at losing out on the book - though I'm sure thats part of it. He was upset to a large degree because he knew that Ewert didn't purchase it for his collection, he purchased for a customer, or to flip it

 

You summed up my aggrivation nicely, but Ewert was the seller and Comiclink(Josh) was the buyer.

 

Welcome to the world of business. To be upset you lost a book that you wanted is understandable. We've all lost out on some books before. But the reasons someone else has in outbidding you, for whatever purposes (to read, to fill a gap, to flip or to use as wallpaper) what in the hell does it matter? Obviously if someone else outbids you for the reason of flipping, then there is someone out there willing to pay alot more for it than you. Welcome to the world of business. Don't forget, dealing in collectibles is dealing in business. -----Sid

 

Hey Sid, thanks for teaching me about business. I've been self-employed since I was 19, but again, thanks for introducing me to the world of business.

 

I don't enjoy losing out on top-census SA keys by a matter of a few dollars. I would have been pi$$ed regardless, but it was just adding insult to injury that it was that particular dealer. Jbud used the example because he felt it added to his point. But I didn't say anything about flipping, and I could care less what someone does with their comics, whether it's read, flip, or wipe their arse. I get outbid all the time, but there were a lot of factors that made losing that particular auction a little painful. So if you want to get defensive about your buying/selling, focus your argument on the person who's giving you the criticism, because I couldn't care less about what you do with this hobby.

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BassGMan

BassGMan

Posted
Posted
Deja' vu here for me. I'm an atheist and I've had very similar debates with religous people about the existance of God. They feel sorry for me too. foreheadslap.gif

 

I guess I'm just not worthy. sorry.gif

 

Bad analogy. Comics are tangible. I can prove there are words between the covers.

 

sign-funnypost.gif Good one. I'll give ya' credit for that one thumbsup2.gif

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BassGMan

BassGMan

Posted
Posted
Cap. Of Industry was a bit steamed here about a month ago regarding the first app. of Captain Marvel I believe. Jason Ewert had purchased the book or sniped it after COI had put in a very agressive bid for the slabbed 9.8. No he wasnt upset at losing out on the book - though I'm sure thats part of it. He was upset to a large degree because he knew that Ewert didn't purchase it for his collection, he purchased for a customer, or to flip it

 

You summed up my aggrivation nicely, but Ewert was the seller and Comiclink(Josh) was the buyer.

 

Welcome to the world of business. To be upset you lost a book that you wanted is understandable. We've all lost out on some books before. But the reasons someone else has in outbidding you, for whatever purposes (to read, to fill a gap, to flip or to use as wallpaper) what in the hell does it matter? Obviously if someone else outbids you for the reason of flipping, then there is someone out there willing to pay alot more for it than you. Welcome to the world of business. Don't forget, dealing in collectibles is dealing in business. -----Sid

 

Hey Sid, thanks for teaching me about business. I've been self-employed since I was 19, but again, thanks for introducing me to the world of business.

 

I don't enjoy losing out on top-census SA keys by a matter of a few dollars. I would have been pi$$ed regardless, but it was just adding insult to injury that it was that particular dealer. Jbud used the example because he felt it added to his point. But I didn't say anything about flipping, and I could care less what someone does with their comics, whether it's read, flip, or wipe their arse. I get outbid all the time, but there were a lot of factors that made losing that particular auction a little painful. So if you want to get defensive about your buying/selling, focus your argument on the person who's giving you the criticism, because I couldn't care less about what you do with this hobby.

 

COI, well said and point taken. I didn't mean to drag your story into this and I didn't bring it up nor intend to lecture you about it. But the little story did bring out my reaction as stated above. I wasn't writing to you directly with my comment but moreso the idea of caring about what an outbidder does with his purchase in general.

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jimm94

jimm94

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Posted

Although I try to find the nicest raw copies I can at my LCS, I consider all of my modern purchases to be disposable entertainment with no future value. The problem is, most moderns are $2.50-$3.00 and take 15 minutes or less to read, so they don't provide that great of a value in terms of bang for your buck. The other big problem is that I buy far more moderns than I have time to read. As a result, I'm currently sitting on nearly 3 short boxes of unread books that I have bought within the last year. I'm also generally unsatisfied with the state of things at Marvel right now, so I'm cutting WAYYY back on those purchases effective immediately.

 

For my other collecting habit, Marvel Silver and Bronze, it is my hope and expectation that any book I buy for more than about $20 will have some future increase or at least retain a significant percentage of its' value. Even a "reader copy" at this price or higher should have some sort of worth and desirability beyond the amount of time it takes to read. Otherwise, I feel that's just too much money to spend on something you only get X minutes of enjoyment out of. It reminds of the times I have gone gambling in Reno or Vegas and have burnt through over $100 in less than an hour. I always regret doing that, because I sure didn't get that much fun out of it! Of course, this is small potatoes to some people. Everyone's threshold is different based on their incomes.

 

I try very hard to spend within the means of my disposable income, though I openly admit to having put a few books on the good ole Visa in times when I didn't have cash on hand. I don't use comics as a substitute for traditional long-term investments, but I would be uncomfortable with seeing what adds up to hundreds and eventually thousands of dollars have no eventual return should I have a desire to "cash out" of those books in order to fund another comic or non-comic purchase. I think the key is getting your collection to a point where it can sustain itself as it grows. I’m still working on that.

 

I truly believe that collecting is an addiction of sorts. Getting a new comic can be a very temporary high and there's always another book to get. It is up to us as individuals to manage the way and the extent to which we participate in the hobby so that we can control whether our addiction is a positive or negative experience.

 

One last thought - I believe that comics should be read touched, looked at and smelled, but there's nothing wrong with the way people collect if they choose to not do all of these things. It does not make them any more or less of a fan.

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arexcrooke

arexcrooke

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Posted

Sorry you don't like it - but I'll say it flat out - you're style is not worthy of a true (wait, let's not overuse "true" - how about "total"? "Well-rounded"?) comics fan. Comics are the perfect combo of Art and Literature - so by avoiding the Lit part, the most you can be (by definiton of a comic's intended use) is 50% total (true) fan. Tell me now if you have a reading problem or dyslexia or something, and I'll lighten the hell up. If not, then...

 

 

Read em, let me translate the above sentence:

"If you dont collect and view comics like I do, you are not a collector".

It is ideas like this that create intolerance and bad feelings in any hobby or other endevor in life (where I live it is especially so in religious beliefs). Collect the way you want, let others collect the way they want. You seem to worry about how someone collects, not whether they collect or not. And yes you can collect and not read the books. You think Im going to read my 9.2 Avengers 15 and take a chance on lowering the condition? Do you think that Ill buy a reader, yes. Does this make me any less of a collector than you? Dont think so, even if I dont read a single book, if that is the way that I choose to collect, then so be it.

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tilleycs

tilleycs

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Posted

Even though I generally only buy and trade for reader copies (I just want to have the comics and read the stories), it wouldn't surprise me if I lost money if I sold my entire collection. I don't sell comics on ebay (yet), so I haven't made or lost any money that way. I just donate what I don't want to Comics4Kids and enjoy the tax write-off.

 

I'll say this, though - even if I gave away my entire comic collection, it would be hard pressed the equal the losses of my "smart" investments (401k and IRA mutual funds) over the last few years. I'm a pretty conservative investor (index funds, etc.), and I've still lost a ton since the economy started its downhill slide in '99/'00.

 

In hindsight, if I'd had all the money in my hands at once, a major high-grade key would have been a much better investment. Not that I would have gone that route, but it would have been a better investment, hindsight being 20/20. So go figure. smile.gif

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12c_Comic

12c_Comic

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Posted

Zero...What I bought I wanted and will not sell for a long time to come.My silverage graded comics I bought over the pass few years were at market value at their grades.I'am happy of the collection I was able to gather and now can appreciate for years to come.... cloud9.gif

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