CGC Issue Resolved

[Walt_Flanagan-migration]

it makes you wonder how many have been burned in the past by books going from unres to restored.

 

lots of people make their living playing the bump up game. big time money riding on such a quick change of condition without being able to actually see the insides of the comic at the time of purchase.

[Walt_Flanagan-migration]

so are ALL the Ewert books officially off the market. Could this be another one?

 

Did the FBI subpoena all of he and his partners submissions to CGC? Is there a complete list of titles?

Im not sure how confident I can be in CGC graded books anymore. I resubbed 2 books for walkthrough grading, and got results today.

 

Both books were Universal Blue labels

 

Journey into Mystery CGC 6.0 - book was killer, and I thought it was much better. Came back a 7.0

 

Both books came back RESTORED.

and the JIM is top cover trimmed!!

 

[shadroch]

To play devils advocate. If you crack the book out, you now have a raw book that was once a Universal 6.0. That is a statement of fact.

Its also true it was once a Restored 7.0.

This is why I don't care what a book once was when it was slabbed.

Sellers say it was once this grade, and I'll send along the label to prove it.

Its a fools game.

[chromium]

One of the books from ebay could have the old label where someone switch out the copy with a different restored copy.

 

I bought a ASM 129 book off eBay in old label CGC 9.4 and the book was a 9.0. Graders notes did not match the 9.0 book in the case and I could see the glue residue on the old label. So that could be a possibility on one of the books that Dan had, who knows though.

 

This.

One of the dirty secrets of the slabbed comics world. I remember Hammer (Danny Dupcak) posting how this can be done back in 2003...thread was yanked within the hour.

[fastballspecial]

This is why you don't buy books hoping to resub for higher grades.

 

Gotta agree with that statement, though most wont listen to it.

 

[chrisco37]

One of the books from ebay could have the old label where someone switch out the copy with a different restored copy.

 

I bought a ASM 129 book off eBay in old label CGC 9.4 and the book was a 9.0. Graders notes did not match the 9.0 book in the case and I could see the glue residue on the old label. So that could be a possibility on one of the books that Dan had, who knows though.

 

This.

One of the dirty secrets of the slabbed comics world. I remember Hammer (Danny Dupcak) posting how this can be done back in 2003...thread was yanked within the hour.

 

Yep. They jumped on that one with lightning speed.

[passion4comics]

One of the books from ebay could have the old label where someone switch out the copy with a different restored copy.

 

I bought a ASM 129 book off eBay in old label CGC 9.4 and the book was a 9.0. Graders notes did not match the 9.0 book in the case and I could see the glue residue on the old label. So that could be a possibility on one of the books that Dan had, who knows though.

 

This.

One of the dirty secrets of the slabbed comics world. I remember Hammer (Danny Dupcak) posting how this can be done back in 2003...thread was yanked within the hour.

 

Yep. They jumped on that one with lightning speed.

 

I know it's a conflict, but couldn't they leave it up so buyers could tell if their books were tampered with? A thief would get this information anyway or a sophisticated thief would just have a slab sent out to China and have them mass reproduced identical to a CGC slab and not even have to worry about glue and sliding a book out. There are plenty of overseas plastic companies that would be more than happy to produce 10,000 CGC cases for shipment. Information should never be suppressed. That shows the system is flawed.

 

What's with the grader turnaround? I'm always hearing there are new graders. Is the place so miserable to work at that they can't keep their employees? Each employee brings in information and after working there leaves with a lot more.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

So CGC got better at resto (trimming) detection ... how is that bad ?

 

How would you feel if one of your hi grade books you paid top dollar for turned out to have resto on it??

I would feel like I lost a gamble. Did you check the old labels numbers against the lists that CGC has supplied of books that have possibly been trimmed? This is crucial. And I do feel bad about you getting the hose, but I also believe you have had these threads before. You already know the CPR game is dangerous.

[GAMBIT]

So CGC got better at resto (trimming) detection ... how is that bad ?

 

How would you feel if one of your hi grade books you paid top dollar for turned out to have resto on it??

I would feel like I lost a gamble. Did you check the old labels numbers against the lists that CGC has supplied of books that have possibly been trimmed? This is crucial. And I do feel bad about you getting the hose, but I also believe you have had these threads before. You already know the CPR game is dangerous.

 

+1

[Jaydogrules]

So CGC got better at resto (trimming) detection ... how is that bad ?

 

How would you feel if one of your hi grade books you paid top dollar for turned out to have resto on it??

I would feel like I lost a gamble. Did you check the old labels numbers against the lists that CGC has supplied of books that have possibly been trimmed? This is crucial. And I do feel bad about you getting the hose, but I also believe you have had these threads before. You already know the CPR game is dangerous.

 

Where might one find this list that cgc keeps? Also, am I the only one that finds it strange that a book with horrific marvel chipping can get a 7.0 grade, but if that same book is "trimmed" to cut away the rot of the book and make it look 100% better, that it is considered "restored"? I thought the general defining rule of restoration is that you are adding something new to the book. Trimming, especially when done professionally is doing the exact opposite.

 

-J.

[lizards2]

it makes you wonder how many have been burned in the past by books going from unres to restored.

 

I've been burned several times just by cracking out blue label 9.4s that were really 9.0s. And there was a 7.5 that was about 6.0.

 

But then again, I've been pleasantly surprised when I've cracked out some 9.0s and 9.2s...., :think:

[thunsicker]

People keep saying this is just a risk of the CPR game but it's not for me. I've never done a CPR but I have a couple hundred slabs. If even 5% are restored in a blue label then it's alarming to me. What if I sell one and someone resubs it? Am I on the hook for selling a restored book? Do we place all the 'blame' on the person doing the resub? It's hard for me to think if this was brought to my attention I wouldn't feel the need to 'make it right'.

[HaydenTO]

 

Dan aka Flipper tried to squeeze more out of a book and came up dry.

Collectors should be happy, this might stop some of these sellers from

pressing books. It will never stop the big guns like Comic Link & Sparkle City

they will continue to press away.

 

WOW

 

Wendy O Williams

 

 

Reminds me I need more electrical tape

[Jaydogrules]

People keep saying this is just a risk of the CPR game but it's not for me. I've never done a CPR but I have a couple hundred slabs. If even 5% are restored in a blue label then it's alarming to me. What if I sell one and someone resubs it? Am I on the hook for selling a restored book? Do we place all the 'blame' on the person doing the resub? It's hard for me to think if this was brought to my attention I wouldn't feel the need to 'make it right'.

 

The implication is that people who attempt a CPR are "greedy", and they should just be happy with the grade that's on the label already. The implication is that if you CPR and it comes back "restored", or even a lower grade that you played the game, gambled, and lost. Too bad for you.

 

But a lot of people buy comics as long term investments, and yes, some books are plainly under graded, or have very superficial defects that can be cured with a simple press, and should probably be re considered by CGC. It's only natural for someone to want to maximize their investment. As an owner of the book, you have a right to do that if you are willing to pay their fees. And if the book wasn't in a "restored" slab before, at the very least, you should expect it to still be in a blue label again. It's the randomness of it all that is turning a lot of people off. Either the book was restored or it wasn't. So now two versions of the same book on the census? An unrestored and a restored one? That's just silly.

 

An experienced collector, and/or an presser should be able to determine whether or not it makes sense to crack a book out and go for the upgrade. I for one know that I have just as many books that seem over graded as I do books that are under graded. I have yet to do a CPR on one of those, but I often get tempted. As for the ones that don't look as good to me as the assigned grade, I just leave those alone.

 

-J.

[slym2none]

 

BTW all books look better after being pressed. (except spine roll shadiness)

 

It amazes me how so many threads turn into a discussion about pressing but I suspect John is just having some fun. Anyway, I don't think Dan said he had the books pressed. If all books look better after being pressed then why

do we have... warping, flaring, reverse spine roll, staining,cover shrinkage, spine indents, cockling and pebbling

 

You forgot Costanza'ing.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Davenport]

Just buy restored books in the first place and you won't have to worry about this.

 

Pretty much is anyway, just the 'non-additive' blue variants.

[joe_collector]

So CGC got better at resto (trimming) detection ... how is that bad ?

 

Really? Did you actually type this?

 

It's like paying top dollar for a painting, verified as authentic by a host of experts, then trying to sell the painting years later, and those *same* experts now tell you it's a forgery.

 

At some point in this process, there has to be some accountability.

[paul747]

So CGC got better at resto (trimming) detection ... how is that bad ?

 

Really? Did you actually type this?

 

It's like paying top dollar for a painting, verified as authentic by a host of experts, then trying to sell the painting years later, and those *same* experts now tell you it's a forgery.

 

At some point in this process, there has to be some accountability.

Agreed. I think the safest bet is let them crack them for a possible bump. They have no clue what happened to the book.

 

Lets say you send a slab -uncracked to Matt or Joey would this be the same thing as sending one in naked? or would you have a more represented case?

 

Either way this is a crime for the OP and I would be sick !

[pickycollector]

Dan, were these two books "straight" resubs or were they pressed before being resubmitted ?

 

And if they were pressed, by whom ?

[Electron]

People keep saying this is just a risk of the CPR game but it's not for me. I've never done a CPR but I have a couple hundred slabs. If even 5% are restored in a blue label then it's alarming to me. What if I sell one and someone resubs it? Am I on the hook for selling a restored book? Do we place all the 'blame' on the person doing the resub? It's hard for me to think if this was brought to my attention I wouldn't feel the need to 'make it right'.

 

I think it's important not to overreact based on 2 submissions.

 

I highly doubt CGC misses 5% of restoration,nearly all resto is easily detectable,especially by the leaders in the field. They are however not infallible. Mistakes do happen,and that is what more than likely happened here. Micro trimming of a cover edge only is very difficult to detect. They missed it the first time around. Also a very small amount of professional color touch can be difficult to find,and may have slipped by. Now if they start missing piece replacement or amateur color touch then it's time to get out the pitchforks!