Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[CBT]

Questions for Spider-Dan:

1. If the new owner sells to CGC at $3500, are they making a profit?

2. How does this make you feel?

3. Has CGC reached out to compensate for the difference between your sale price and $3500?

 

1 - The sale was private, so the sale price must be too

 

2 - I sold the book for what I thought was fair, so I have no feeling one way or the other. My only feeling is I would hope is that the buyer is happy with his purchase

 

3 - While CGC is in talks with the buyer, the only response I got from CGC was on Sunday - " Wow, that is very disappointing if it's the same book. I will look

into it further on Tuesday as I will be out of the office tomorrow"

 

Like I said before, I sold the book and washed my hands to the whole thing. When the buyer contacted me with this info, I felt obligated to update anyone who was involved in the original thread.

 

I believe the book is UN-TRIMMED and NO WAY would I sell it to CGC for $3500.

 

I wish I could buy the book back ,and resub it in 6 months or so and see what happens

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

I'm no English teacher, but isn't this the quintessential straw man's fallacy?

 

I don't know, is it?

 

I typed it out pretty fast and it's a poor analogy, I'll admit.

 

His point is that the hobby has jumped the shark because of grading inconsistencies.

 

My point is that there is less grading inconsistency than there was when 2000 dealers across the country were grading 3 Million books than when an independent 3rd party is grading 3 Million books.

 

That really is what is at the center of the discussion.

 

EDIT: Wait, I thought you were an English teacher??

 

Yea I was joking. I think you are in the clear. It wasn't a great analogy but I think you're all right.

[COI]

The label changed color; the number on the label did a little two step; the page quality is schizophrenic.

 

No consistency in grade, page quality, or the results of the resto check. Mistakes happen, the graders are human, yadda, yadda, yadda; I get it. The problem is, when you consider these inconsistencies in the context of a market that values one grade increment over another to such a degree that the time, expense and risk involved in resubmitting books is more often than not worthwhile, and thus profitable, it becomes clear that this entire segment of the hobby has jumped the shark.

 

You are taking isolated incidents and extrapolating them like it's common place. It isn't.

 

I made a living fixing Benz's for the last 11 years of that career and yet they are regarded as awesome cars. Why? Because they're perfect? If they were perfect they wouldn't have 10 or 15 dealerships in Southern Ontario to repair them.

 

Inconsistency is absolutely commonplace. People do straight resubs all the time for PQ or grade bumps; that's inconsistency. And that's fine. That doesn't make CGC horrible or the books worthless, but it seems highly irrational to pay multiples across single grade increments when these inconsistencies are a reality. I'm suggesting that the prices paid for small grade jumps, in light of everything we know now, are not commensurate with the consistency of CGC's opinions.

 

And nice red herring there with the Mercedes analogy.

[Jimmy Linguini]

This is too much but its also great to watch

 

[CBT]

The

 

*** You are ignoring this user ***

Toggle the display of this post

 

are coming out of the word work. While I'd love to open it and bask in its wisdom, pass

[GACollectibles]

If you quote a post and can type your reply under it(like I am doing now) but while you are doing so the original post is *poofed* by mods the quote and your reply will still be posted.

 

the post was there for less than ten seconds, was not quoted, and he wasnt in the thread during the entire event, didnt post, wasnt lurking.

 

additionally there were also things from PMs, as I said, not going dig it all up, this a digression from my point.

 

 

Everything thing he has said and done in this thread is attacking people raising legitimate concerns about CGC.

 

Company Man/Mod,

 

clear bias.

 

1) It doesn't matter how long the post was there, if he hit "Quote" in the "10 seconds" the post was on the boards then it would copy the html from your post and then be there when he submitted his post- no matter how long after your post had been deleted.

 

2) You said above he quoted you. If he quoted your exact words then he had access to the original post, which is entirely possible if it existed on the boards.

 

3) How do know he wasn't lurking/reading the thread? Do you have him lojacked?

 

 

[CBT]

I personally think the book is NOT TRIMMED as well. Twice it was found to be blue, only once was it found purple.

 

That was likely the REAL error that CGC made, and because of their lack of accountability, could feed Dan the "Everyone looked at it" line which is spruious and completely unproveable.

 

Leaving him with no recourse but to sell it purple.

 

Also, KUDOS to him for being an upstanding business man in doing so.

 

SHAME on all the people who try to attack the buyer for resubbing it as if there is something unusual or untoward with taking an obvious and logical action

[Jimmy Linguini]

Word work

[kav]

No matter what you say about CGC they are selling confidence in the condition of a book vs the wild wild west days when you didn't know what you were getting. Everyone would still prefer a slabbed book to a raw book of the same apparent condition. This is what you are paying for, not perfection of results. That is impossible.

[CBT]

 

CBT's other post

 

 

if you want a debate about it, make a new thread, and when I have them time, I'll dig all the old PM's about it.

 

In this thread I'm sticking to what so many people keep getting away from.

 

What CGC did, how they failed, and ways to improve

[BlowUpTheMoon]

3) How do know he wasn't lurking/reading the thread? Do you have him lojacked?

 

 

[VintageComics]

Inconsistency is absolutely commonplace. People do straight resubs all the time for PQ or grade bumps; that's inconsistency. And that's fine. That doesn't make CGC horrible or the books worthless, but it seems highly irrational to pay multiples across single grade increments when these inconsistencies are a reality. I'm suggesting that the prices paid for small grade jumps, in light of everything we know now, are not commensurate with the consistency of CGC's opinions.

 

And nice red herring there with the Mercedes analogy.

 

I don't think it was a red herring. It was meant to show that

 

a) perception is important

b) nobody is perfect

 

and yet people continue to pay large sums of money for expensive cars just like they do for books.

 

Commonplace is relative to what is NOT common.

 

Out of 3 Million books, what is common? To find inconsistency or consistency? I would venture to say that consistency is more common based on my experiences.

 

As has been mentioned in another thread, until there is a statistical audit and the results are published nobody knows for sure what percentage those discrepancies make but I'd bank on the fact that they are relatively small.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1904 Comics]

this is really influencing my decision on certain books. definitely not acceptable to any standard.

 

What they should also do is make their encapsulation process measured to the exact degree of the book. If a book is trimmed and purple labeled, the encasement should reflect that amount. whether there is a ruler built into the encasement, or some form of measurement to distinguish the short length/width of a purple label, it has to be done.

[kav]

this is really influencing my decision on certain books. definitely not acceptable to any standard.

 

What they should also do is make their encapsulation process measured to the exact degree of the book. If a book is trimmed and purple labeled, the encasement should reflect that amount. whether there is a ruler built into the encasement, or some form of measurement to distinguish the short length/width of a purple label, it has to be done.

Measurement is an inaccurate guide due to variances in printing. I'm thinking they're calling trim due to some observable aspect of the edge-what I don't know.

[COI]

Inconsistency is absolutely commonplace. People do straight resubs all the time for PQ or grade bumps; that's inconsistency. And that's fine. That doesn't make CGC horrible or the books worthless, but it seems highly irrational to pay multiples across single grade increments when these inconsistencies are a reality. I'm suggesting that the prices paid for small grade jumps, in light of everything we know now, are not commensurate with the consistency of CGC's opinions.

 

And nice red herring there with the Mercedes analogy.

 

I don't think it was a red herring. It was meant to show that

 

a) perception is important

b) nobody is perfect

 

and yet people continue to pay large sums of money for expensive cars just like they do for books.

 

Commonplace is relative to what is NOT common.

 

Out of 3 Million books, what is common? To find inconsistency or consistency? I would venture to say that consistency is more common based on my experiences.

 

As has been mentioned in another thread, until there is a statistical audit and the results are published nobody knows for sure what percentage those discrepancies make but I'd bank on the fact that they are relatively small.

 

 

Let's hug it out.

[ianh]

I'm probably missing something here or maybe it was discussed but isn't $3500 for a blue label JIM83 a bout 1.5k off FMV?? Unless CGC is basing pricing on Overstreet which is laughable or the Purple Label price maybe?

 

Seems to me that if they buy the book back it should be enough $$ to buy another blue label JIM83 in the same grade.

 

What a royal screw up and on a major key book no doubt which makes it 100x worse.

[Prince Namor]

By the way....what Steve Borock says is absolutely true:

 

For any of you who did not buy and sell comics prior to CGC, especially in the 90's when prices had risen to the 4 and 5 digits for most high grade, key books, it really, really, REALLY was the bad old days.

 

I shudder to think how many people paid $10,000+ for high grade, key Gold and Silver books in the 90's, and STILL haven't recovered what they paid (and much, much worse) after finding out, sometimes decades later, that the book had been restored. It was just heartbreaking.

 

For all its faults, CGC has provided a much SAFER trading environment, and for that, the market should always be very, very grateful.

 

Point taken there, I don't know what it was like since in the early 90s I was a kid buying comics off the spinner rack at the gas station.

 

Looking back on it, it was a complete mess.

Add to that there was no eBay, which meant there were a lot more 'rare and hard to find' comics at the time, which today we know aren't.

Ugh.

[GACollectibles]

 

CBT's other post

 

 

if you want a debate about it, make a new thread, and when I have them time, I'll dig all the old PM's about it.

 

In this thread I'm sticking to what so many people keep getting away from.

 

What CGC did, how they failed, and ways to improve

 

Nothing to debate, it is possible to show a quote of deleted post if you hit the quote button before a post is removed by the mods, even if the reply is posted after the OP's post is removed.

[Gotham Kid]

So ... CGC have the book in hand yet ?

[VintageComics]

Let's hug it out.

 

After Park tried to lay a big wet one on me yesterday I'm not so sure I trust you.