first appearance of adamantium/cgc label question

[Dale Roberts]

I think Ultron 5 was not made of adamantium. The next generation of Ultron may have been the first with adamantium. But I could be wrong.

[dupont2005]

Consider first appearances of a character, a cameo on the last page does not make that issue the first appearance.

 

Incorrect.

 

Thats why Hulk 181 is the valuable book and 180 by comparison is nothing.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

Please elaborate.

 

According to CGC a cameo does not a first appearance make.

Sometimes tape is resto, sometimes it isn't.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Hey Fellas.

 

Avengers 66 is the first time the alloy adamantium was mentioned by name in a marvel book, and CGC has been labeling this on their Avengers 66 books as "first appearance of adamantium" or something like that.

 

This is wrong. Yeah here it is first mentioned in a book by name, but it is actually in reference to the adamantium material used in Ultron's armor. That said, the first appearance of adamantium is really Avengers 55 (ultron's first appearance), and thus should be labeled appropriately on a CGC slabbed book. Right?

 

I guess it's similar to Secret Wars 8. CGC slabs these books labeled with something along the lines of "first appearance of symbiote which eventually becomes

venom". Kind of. Same ballpark. I think.

 

Any ideas? I've got both an Avengers 55 and 66 to slab and would be cool to get this on both labels just for fun.

 

 

 

Ultron 5 is not made of adamantium.

 

He uses the Vision to secure the adamantium from the SHIELD carrier in Avengers #66 so that Ultron 6 can be made of adamantium.

 

Therefore, adamantium - described as such or otherwise - does not appear before Avengers #66.

[Lost]

Nerd fight!

 

[joe_collector]

It's my understanding that Ultron-5 as seen in the Avengers #55 was not made of adamantium. He appropriated this material from SHIELD via latent subliminal instructions through the Vision and remade himself with it as Ultron-6 in Avengers #66 (as described in Avengers #67 & #68). Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I was just going to post this - Ultron stole the Adamantium from Avengers 66 to use in his armor..

 

Does no one actually *read* these things anymore?

[joe_collector]

How is a cameo that is the first time a character is seen, not a first appearance?

 

Agsin, because back in the days before running water and electricity, people used to actually READ comics, so they wanted the one with their favorite character throughout the story, not the one-panel cameo.

[gaz973]

It's my understanding that Ultron-5 as seen in the Avengers #55 was not made of adamantium. He appropriated this material from SHIELD via latent subliminal instructions through the Vision and remade himself with it as Ultron-6 in Avengers #66 (as described in Avengers #67 & #68). Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I was just going to post this - Ultron stole the Adamantium from Avengers 66 to use in his armor..

 

Does no one actually *read* these things anymore?

 

Apparently not, must be hard for the next generation of collectors to read the stories through the slabs.

[slym2none]

How is a cameo that is the first time a character is seen, not a first appearance?

 

Agsin, because back in the days before running water and electricity, people used to actually READ comics, so they wanted the one with their favorite character throughout the story, not the one-panel cameo.

 

No one said anything about popularity.

 

Say Heroman #6 has a last-page cameo of a new viillain, Deathmaw, who is shown in full, is named, and interacts with Heroman. Deathmaw goes on to have a full story in #7. #6 is still the first appearance of Deathmaw. No amount of "first full story" can take away the fact that #6 is Deathmaw's 1st appearance.

 

Surely one as intelligent as you can grasp that.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Westy Steve]

Cool...I have stuff to say on the thread, and the thread hijacking:

 

1. Captain America's round shield was considered to be at least part Adamantium. So Avengers #4? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_America%27s_shield

 

2. Nextly, the neat thing about Hulk 180 is that Wolverine is actually talking in two panels...not just one. He's saying some stuff out of view in the second to last panel...and then (of course) the last panel. Also, he tells us his name and you get a flavor for his personality. So it's the most comprehensive "cameo" in comicbook history, right? I mean...how many cameo appearances have the character talking in two panels, saying their name, and revealing their personality and appearance? (FWIW, I have a 180 and a 181).

[wtbvcjmoctt-migration]

The shield in avengers 4 is vibranium. The adamantium shield was built later on for the US Agent capt

[Flaming_Telepath]

Cap's shield was actually vibranium, although the inventor of his shield also invented adamantium at a later date.

[joe_collector]

Surely one as intelligent as you can grasp that.

 

But there are degrees of "first appearances" from 1-panel to ending splash page to multiple pages within the same comic.

 

And since people used to actually *read* these comics, the "brief/cameo" appearances were clearly noted to ensure readers understood it was just a one-panel/page appearance, while the "full" appearance was where the real meat was.

 

So in the case of Wolverine, there is no true "first appearance" that includes all criteria, there is a "first brief/cameo" and "first full" appearance in Hulk 180 and 181, respectively.

 

 

[joe_collector]

Nextly, the neat thing about Hulk 180 is that Wolverine is actually talking in two panels...not just one. He's saying some stuff out of view in the second to last panel...and then (of course) the last panel. Also, he tells us his name and you get a flavor for his personality. So it's the most comprehensive "cameo" in comicbook history, right? I mean...how many cameo appearances have the character talking in two panels, saying their name, and revealing their personality and appearance?

 

Hardly, and just off the top of my head, go read the end of Avengers 195 - the Taskmaster reveal is far superior to Wolverine's, and he literally explains everything about himself and his operation in 1 panel and a big splash page.

[Boboset]

Nextly, the neat thing about Hulk 180 is that Wolverine is actually talking in two panels...not just one. He's saying some stuff out of view in the second to last panel...and then (of course) the last panel. Also, he tells us his name and you get a flavor for his personality. So it's the most comprehensive "cameo" in comicbook history, right? I mean...how many cameo appearances have the character talking in two panels, saying their name, and revealing their personality and appearance?

 

Hardly, and just off the top of my head, go read the end of Avengers 195 - the Taskmaster reveal is far superior to Wolverine's, and he literally explains everything about himself and his operation in 1 panel and a big splash page.

 

I was just about to bring up the Taskmaster appearance to one of your previous posts. How #195 is only a cameo is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Here's the "cameo".

 

[miraclemet]

the key thing about adamantium is it's naming and it's explanation... in essence it's origin.

 

Who's to say there's not a hunk of adamantium sitting in Hany Pyms lab in scenes before Ultron's first appearance.

 

Adamantium is not visually distinct (in the comic), so it requires its naming (at least) to "appear"

 

sweet sassafras only on a comic message board could we have a 4 page argument/discussion about the accurately labeled first appearance of a hunk of metal.

[wtbvcjmoctt-migration]

I'd like to quote from my good friend Miriam Webster:

first

adjective \ˈfərst\

: coming before all others in time, order, or importance

 

ap·pear·ance

noun \ə-ˈpir-ən(t)s\

: the action of appearing : the fact that something or someone arrives or begins to be seen

 

i will now present to my fellow board members two images, displayed in sequential order based on the numbers shown on the top left of them, ordered from the lowest to the highest number:

 

next, i will reveal, by the definitions from the top of my post, an image that appears within the first book of the sequence I have just presented to you:

 

the bottom line? wolverine's first appearance is in hulk 180. you guys can't rewrite history.

 

let's play again - the following shows two more images, in sequential order based on the numbers displayed on the top left of the images:

 

the following image appears within the first book of the sequence above:

 

looks like mr ultron's first appearance is in avengers 54.

[Davenport]

sweet sassafras only on a comic message board could we have a 4 page argument/discussion about the accurately labeled first appearance of a hunk of metal.

Clicking on this thread I was stunned they label it AT ALL. Unbelievable.

Completely ignore for decades the 1st appearance of Arkham Asylum, significant across pop culture, movies, books, animation, video games and nexus of characters like Harley Quinn...

 

But by all means, label the 1st appearance of adamantium.

Frikkin' hobby.

[akaSteveRogers]

The shield in avengers 4 is vibranium. The adamantium shield was built later on for the US Agent capt

 

Cap's shield was actually vibranium

 

The only pure vibranium shield Cap owned was after he returned the pure Adamantium shield that Tony Stark gave him as the Captain. That was the red, black, white shield given to him by the Black Panther He had 2 shield under The Captain persona.

 

 

Avengers 4 shield was vibranium-iron alloy or something like that. If I rememeber correctly, there was a time when it was considered Vibranium-Adamantium. But I think this was reconned.

[Jaylam]

The first appearance of Adamantium in Avengers #66 is truly a first (and full) appearance; no cameo in a prior issue, no look back and here it is in some other place months or years before. It truly first appears and is first named in this issue. I believe Ultron even mentions he is now made of this new, indestructible metal that he wasn't made of before in this Avengers #66-68 story arc.

[Crimebuster]

The first appearance of Adamantium in Avengers #66 is truly a first (and full) appearance; no cameo in a prior issue, no look back and here it is in some other place months or years before. It truly first appears and is first named in this issue. I believe Ultron even mentions he is now made of this new, indestructible metal that he wasn't made of before in this Avengers #66-68 story arc.

 

This is correct. The whole plot of Avengers #66 is the invention of adamantium and Ultron's attempts to steal it. The issue starts with SHIELD calling in the Avengers to test the strength of adamantium. Thor and Iron Man and the others try to damage it and cannot.

 

Ultron then takes control of Vision - who, of course, he created just a few issues earlier - and forces Vision to steal the adamantium so Ultron can use it to make himself indestructible.

 

This is Ultron-6, and this issue is the origin of both the metal and how Ultron uses it to become the indestructible menace we know and love as opposed to the very destructible regular old robot guy that Ultron-5 was in his previous appearances.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, for what it's worth, Avengers #54 is indeed Ultron's first appearance. His iconic robot face is only shown in a couple panels (including the one previously cited) but he is active, in the guise of Crimson Cowl, on several pages in the story. The only thing Avengers #54 does not have is the name Ultron. He's called either Crimson Cowl or "the robot" in #54.