PGM Fantastic Four 5 GRADE IS IN

[Red84]

I did end up buying the notes to make sure I didn't miss anything on the interior.

 

No surprises.

[Readymade Breakup]

Ah you couldn't resist...I don't blame you. I'm curious what they mean by "full top". Is that referring to the stain that goes all the way from the front cover to the back? I just submitted a handful of books to CGC myself and a couple of them have stains. I've heard the stories of how CGC downgrades pretty severely for stains and it made me reluctant to send them in...but I did anyway and I'm about to experience it first hand. Guess I'll cross my fingers. I didn't say this before, but great book regardless of the grade!

[Red84]

Stain didn't go through to the pages.

[Vision75]

I did end up buying the notes to make sure I didn't miss anything on the interior.

 

No surprises.

 

Just to reiterate what some other folks said, this is a heck of a good looking 2.0. CGC does slam stains. That's what probably brought it down from 3ish territory to 2.0. Nevertheless, if I lined up 10 2.0s, this one would likely look the best.

[divad]

CGC does slam stains. That's what probably brought it down from 3ish territory to 2.0.

 

It's the spine, get it? IT'S THE SPINE. Jeez, you guys kill me.

[divad]

Looking at these scans again and reviewing the spine I can't imagine that there are any spine splits.

 

You mean except for the ones he told us about?

 

There are 2 spine splits (3/4in on top, 1/2in on bottom).

 

Yes, I was referring to the following enquiry:

 

Besides the top and bottom splits, isn't the spine also missing a sliver in the black between Dr. Doom's and Reed's word balloons?

 

My guess is that if you hold this book open, and look at the spine, light shines through . . .

 

That would be my concern, especially with the look of the middle spine. If it were just the stains and splits at the top and bottom, I could see it being a 3.0, but books with fragile spines are lucky to get a 2.0 IMHO. Does present well for the grade though.

 

From one of the best graders on the boards.

[timfinz]

I don't buy it! I think someone had poor hand writing and their 3 looked like a 2 and the guy typed it up that way!

 

I demand a recount!!!

[jsilverjanet]

How you feeling, btw?

Well the meds have taken most of the pain away but I still have not gained full use of my left hand. The specialist determined the cause of the problem to be CDDD (Cervical Degenerative Disc Disease) not really a disease, just the signs of aging or sudden impact damage. Mine may have been the latter as I just moved from BC back to Alberta.

 

Drugs and physiotherapy are recommended unless, as in my case there is a disability that prevents me from living/working normally. In this case surgery is recommended and so the next course of action is a Neurological Surgeon consultation and possibly a nerve conduction test, depending on the surgeons review.

 

All in all as I said I am certainly not suffering as I was in the early onset, but it's weird not having the use of a hand that you normally had. Makes you appreciate being healthy and gives you a humbling experience for those that are physically challenged.

 

Peace,

Tim

 

Take care of yourself Tim, wish nothing but the best for you.

 

as for the grade. I know it might be upsetting to receive the score you did and while you can compare it to the ASM1 you have to keep in mind several different factors that went into both grades.

 

While there are some inconsistencies in CGCs grading, the defects in each book are completely different, and you are definitely not comparing apples to apples.

 

you mention spine splits, water damage to this book, while the main defect on the ASM1 was just water damage (and chipping).

 

I'm not sure why you would think it would grade as high as it would.

 

That being said, it's a FF5 you can't go wrong with this book in any condition.

 

 

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

CGC does slam stains. That's what probably brought it down from 3ish territory to 2.0.

 

It's the spine, get it? IT'S THE SPINE. Jeez, you guys kill me.

 

it's so weird how I keep agreeing with you. I guess I now understand grading books better.

 

While CGC does slam water damage, based on the scores that I'm seeing, spine damage is more critical than a few wet spots

[jsilverjanet]

just saw that you purchased the notes. Based on that info, I would not recommend a resubmit but that's your decision.

[rjpb]

Looking at these scans again and reviewing the spine I can't imagine that there are any spine splits.

 

You mean except for the ones he told us about?

 

There are 2 spine splits (3/4in on top, 1/2in on bottom).

 

Yes, I was referring to the following enquiry:

 

Besides the top and bottom splits, isn't the spine also missing a sliver in the black between Dr. Doom's and Reed's word balloons?

 

My guess is that if you hold this book open, and look at the spine, light shines through . . .

 

That would be my concern, especially with the look of the middle spine. If it were just the stains and splits at the top and bottom, I could see it being a 3.0, but books with fragile spines are lucky to get a 2.0 IMHO. Does present well for the grade though.

 

From one of the best graders on the boards.

 

You just say that because I usually agree with you.

[Red84]

How you feeling, btw?

Well the meds have taken most of the pain away but I still have not gained full use of my left hand. The specialist determined the cause of the problem to be CDDD (Cervical Degenerative Disc Disease) not really a disease, just the signs of aging or sudden impact damage. Mine may have been the latter as I just moved from BC back to Alberta.

 

Drugs and physiotherapy are recommended unless, as in my case there is a disability that prevents me from living/working normally. In this case surgery is recommended and so the next course of action is a Neurological Surgeon consultation and possibly a nerve conduction test, depending on the surgeons review.

 

All in all as I said I am certainly not suffering as I was in the early onset, but it's weird not having the use of a hand that you normally had. Makes you appreciate being healthy and gives you a humbling experience for those that are physically challenged.

 

Peace,

Tim

 

Take care of yourself Tim, wish nothing but the best for you.

 

as for the grade. I know it might be upsetting to receive the score you did and while you can compare it to the ASM1 you have to keep in mind several different factors that went into both grades.

 

While there are some inconsistencies in CGCs grading, the defects in each book are completely different, and you are definitely not comparing apples to apples.

 

you mention spine splits, water damage to this book, while the main defect on the ASM1 was just water damage (and chipping).

 

I'm not sure why you would think it would grade as high as it would.

 

That being said, it's a FF5 you can't go wrong with this book in any condition.

 

 

 

 

 

The ASM1 has a full 1 inch spine split at the top. So the ASM1 has the same defects, but worse.

 

[rjpb]

How you feeling, btw?

Well the meds have taken most of the pain away but I still have not gained full use of my left hand. The specialist determined the cause of the problem to be CDDD (Cervical Degenerative Disc Disease) not really a disease, just the signs of aging or sudden impact damage. Mine may have been the latter as I just moved from BC back to Alberta.

 

Drugs and physiotherapy are recommended unless, as in my case there is a disability that prevents me from living/working normally. In this case surgery is recommended and so the next course of action is a Neurological Surgeon consultation and possibly a nerve conduction test, depending on the surgeons review.

 

All in all as I said I am certainly not suffering as I was in the early onset, but it's weird not having the use of a hand that you normally had. Makes you appreciate being healthy and gives you a humbling experience for those that are physically challenged.

 

Peace,

Tim

 

Take care of yourself Tim, wish nothing but the best for you.

 

as for the grade. I know it might be upsetting to receive the score you did and while you can compare it to the ASM1 you have to keep in mind several different factors that went into both grades.

 

While there are some inconsistencies in CGCs grading, the defects in each book are completely different, and you are definitely not comparing apples to apples.

 

you mention spine splits, water damage to this book, while the main defect on the ASM1 was just water damage (and chipping).

 

I'm not sure why you would think it would grade as high as it would.

 

That being said, it's a FF5 you can't go wrong with this book in any condition.

 

 

 

 

 

The ASM1 has a full 1 inch spine split at the top. So the ASM1 has the same defects, but worse.

 

That looks like bug chew instead of spine weakness. If it's isolated to that area, the overall spine may be in much better shape than one in danger of separating completely.

[jsilverjanet]

+1

 

I was going to say the same thing. Split means that split. No longer together. That spine does not look split.

[jsilverjanet]

Back scan and Interior pic of the ASM1 - I'm not seeing the split

 

 

 

 

[Comicdey]

I think you've got a sweet FF 5.....it's a premium 2.0 as most people like the presentation.

 

I do wonder how many times a fat finger has raised or reduced a grade in the CGC slabbing process

[Vision75]

CGC does slam stains. That's what probably brought it down from 3ish territory to 2.0.

It's the spine, get it? IT'S THE SPINE. Jeez, you guys kill me.

 

- red color added to previous post

 

Implied in my statement was that, of course, it's the cumulative defects that bring down the grade. Clearly I could see that two of the notes were about the spine damage

And, I did quote the full grader notes in my post.

 

My argument is that the book would have been in 3ish territory without the stain.

 

Sans staining, what grade do you think the book would have received?

[Dick Pontoon]

A 2.0.

[timfinz]

I'm still having difficulty accepting the 2.0 grade that CGC has assigned Josh's book. If there was more going on with this book I would accept this grade and move on. But there doesn't appear to be any tears, creases, folds, chips (other than what is present on the spine), missing pieces, tape, excessive general wear anywhere, moderate to heavy soiling/staining, detached cover, detached centre fold, spine roll or impact damage.

 

Overstreet CBGG has a note for grades 1.5 to 8.5 that allows certain defects when other defects are not present. I think this book is a strong candidate for this exception. I think CGC ought to implement this ruling or adopt something of a similar approach. I would equate their grade of this book to penalizing an entire hockey team for the mistakes of a couple of players. Does that make sense?

 

The graders notes are vague and if they are charging extra for this then don't you think there should be a little more accountability? I mean after all Josh's description was far better than the notes provided by the grader.

 

CGC is a service that we/you are paying for and just like having some work done on your home you should be satisfied with the work. If you are not then you obviously take a course of action to offset your dissatisfaction. With CGC what recourse do we/you have when you feel the grade and the accompanying notes are unjustifiable?

 

I know that a lot of you will be thinking, that every Tom, and Harry will be questioning the grades they get and that I'm just opening a can of worms. But in some instances, such as this, I believe that Josh should be able to resubmit this book for a second (or fourth, fifth and sixth) opinion at a reduced cost. And CGC should be able to provide better grader notes than what was provided here.

 

I've said my piece so go ahead and cast the first stone.

[jsilverjanet]

Since Joey received this book and had it in hand, I would love to hear his take on it.