This Thread Has Two Questions

[Collect0r]

+1 on Crisis; changed the entire landscape for DC (I wonder if Marvel Now and the New 52 will have similar reactions 30 years from now)

 

Somewhat embarrassed about Jimmy Olsen (stories aren't very good but the covers are great)

[conditionfreak]

I have never understood the "Gwen Stacy" death was so important crowd. Meant little to nothing to me back then. So, some second rate, non-super powered, character died at the hands of a villain. Big deal. The entire planet of Kryptonians (well, almost the entire planet), died.

 

It's not like it was M. J. biting the dust.

 

How come no one has mentioned the death of the entire Doom Patrol? That is huge when compared to the death of Gwen. Even Nick Fury was killed by Bulls Eye.

[Chaseman210]

I have never understood the "Gwen Stacy" death was so important crowd. Meant little to nothing to me back then. So, some second rate, non-super powered, character died at the hands of a villain. Big deal. The entire planet of Kryptonians (well, almost the entire planet), died.

 

It's not like it was M. J. biting the dust.

 

How come no one has mentioned the death of the entire Doom Patrol? That is huge when compared to the death of Gwen. Even Nick Fury was killed by Bulls Eye.

 

I think it's more about the impact her death had on the character of Peter Parker.

[jsilverjanet]

I think the appeal of the Gwen story is that from the moment when he begins to date her, she's everything to Pete. There are a lot of iconic images from that 2 book story, the covers, but the epilogue always got me.

 

[conditionfreak]

Yea, I get that. But how come people aren't talking about how impactful the death of Uncle Ben was? How about the death of Captain Marvel, to the Marvel Universe?

 

Oh well. That's why there is vanilla, chocolate and strawberry ice cream. We all don't like the same things.

[kav]

Yea, I get that. But how come people aren't talking about how impactful the death of Uncle Ben was? How about the death of Captain Marvel, to the Marvel Universe?

 

Oh well. That's why there is vanilla, chocolate and strawberry ice cream. We all don't like the same things.

Because Uncle Ben wasn't in like a hundred issues with a fully developed character. Same thing with the Kryptonians.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think the appeal of the Gwen story is that from the moment when he begins to date her, she's everything to Pete. There are a lot of iconic images from that 2 book story, the covers, but the epilogue always got me.

 

 

Best Spiderman page of all time.

 

Best MJ characterization of all time. The page where, for the first time, she either reveals the strength of character she had all along, or she finally makes a decision to be an adult for the first time in her life.

 

The quintessential development in the history of Peter & MJ, and nails both those characters perfectly. It's the page that made MJ a far superior choice for marriage than Gwen, and what makes the events of "One More Day" so infuriating.

 

It is, in my mind, the most exquisitely crafted comics page that exists, for all these reasons and so many more. I do not think it is possible to overstate the qualities of this page.

 

These two issues are the best books Gerry Conway ever wrote.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Panel layout, timing, expression, all flawless. I could talk about that page for days.

[Buzzetta]

I think the appeal of the Gwen story is that from the moment when he begins to date her, she's everything to Pete. There are a lot of iconic images from that 2 book story, the covers, but the epilogue always got me.

 

 

Best Spiderman page of all time.

 

Best MJ characterization of all time. The page where, for the first time, she either reveals the strength of character she had all along, or she finally makes a decision to be an adult for the first time in her life.

 

The quintessential development in the history of Peter & MJ, and nails both those characters perfectly. It's the page that made MJ a far superior choice for marriage than Gwen, and what makes the events of "One More Day" so infuriating.

 

It is, in my mind, the most exquisitely crafted comics page that exists, for all these reasons and so many more. I do not think it is possible to overstate the qualities of this page.

 

These two issues are the best books Gerry Conway ever wrote.

 

I think the two of you brought up and presented this page better than anyone else ever has when talking about 121 and 122.

[Buzzetta]

Yea, I get that. But how come people aren't talking about how impactful the death of Uncle Ben was? How about the death of Captain Marvel, to the Marvel Universe?

 

Oh well. That's why there is vanilla, chocolate and strawberry ice cream. We all don't like the same things.

 

I am a big Spiderman fan (I think obviously) and I don't see the death of Uncle Ben to be that important as I feel it is derivative of the deaths of Thomas and Martha Wayne. The death of Bruce's parents seem more eventful to me because it occurred first. Sure, there are differences but essentially they are the same in that the protagonists' father figures died through violent means while each protagonist carries some kind of guilt and responsibility toward making amends for their depths. Both Peter Parker and Bruce Wayne carry on with their costumed careers through a sense of responsibility from those events.

 

I give the nod to the death of the Waynes as being more important than Uncle Ben as that occurred first.

[kav]

Well Superman's parents died before that

[mob_medina7]

1.Most important arc:hard one either ASM 121&122 death of Gwen Stacey or Daredevil Born Again hard to choose

2.Embarassed to like:the 1990's Todd Mcfarlane "Spiderman" Drek title which I still happen to think is cool just the writing sucks .

[Buzzetta]

Well Superman's parents died before that

 

Not in a way that evokes a sense of responsibility toward honoring his parents. Superman's sense of responsibility (at least my interpretation of the character) stems from the idea of literally honoring the values set forth by his parents on Earth and doing as much good with the powers he has. Superman never truly knew his Kryptonian parents.

 

Besides Superman's real driving story is being a god with limited scope in so far as not being able to be everywhere at once and being able to save everyone but trying to be the best he can.

 

Batman and Spiderman are driven by parental loss.

[Buzzetta]

Anyway, instead of just critiquing I will weigh in.

 

The Death of Gwen was important not because of Gwen's death but because it sets a tone for the character that resonates even through to Superior Spiderman 31.

 

No matter how often Spiderman wins, Peter Parker will ultimately lose. It is the tragedy inherent to the character.

 

90's stuff that I still think is awesome?

 

I actually liked the Clone saga but thought that Batman was the best thing at the time.

[kav]

Good point. Superman is more akin to Moses, set adrift and never really knew his parents.

[dupont2005]

I would think something that was the "most important" storyline in comics would have somehow had an impact on the medium and industry as a whole. Not just that title, not just that character, not just that publisher, but the art form in general.

[slym2none]

I have never understood the "Gwen Stacy" death was so important crowd. Meant little to nothing to me back then. So, some second rate, non-super powered, character died at the hands of a villain. Big deal. The entire planet of Kryptonians (well, almost the entire planet), died.

 

It's not like it was M. J. biting the dust.

 

How come no one has mentioned the death of the entire Doom Patrol? That is huge when compared to the death of Gwen. Even Nick Fury was killed by Bulls Eye.

 

I think it's more about the impact her death had on the character of Peter Parker.

 

He went from a boo-hoo, whiny little boy to a boo-hoo, whiny little man?

 

 

 

 

-slym

[RockMyAmadeus]

I would think something that was the "most important" storyline in comics would have somehow had an impact on the medium and industry as a whole. Not just that title, not just that character, not just that publisher, but the art form in general.

 

I agree. I think a lot of people posting in this thread are thinking in terms of "personal favorite" (demonstrated by the lack of explanation) rather than objectively looking at it from an impact on the artform.

 

I still think COIE had much more of a direct impact on the artform (for example...it was the maxi-series done right. It succeeded brilliantly where Secret Wars failed badly.)

 

But, I can see the argument for Maus. I think Maus would have more of an impact on writers than anything else.

 

But yes, I wish more folks would look at it objectively.

[Rip]

The most important, most far reaching story arc in all of comics is Crisis on Infinite Earths. It changed everything at DC, and its ramifications are still being felt (even if we are down to hackneyed retreads of it by now.)

 

Marvel has no analog, though it could have used it. Marvel arrived in 2011 essentially at where DC was in 1985.

 

It may not be the most popular, but it certainly changed and affected everything at DC.

 

Wow we agree for once.

 

As for the second question, likely something in the late 80's or 90's. Maybe Warriors of Plasm, Image garbage or maybe New Universe Marvel.

[Waylander]

Q1 - Byrne / Claremont run on X-Men including the Hellfire Club, Dark Phoenix Saga and concluding with Days of Future Past

 

 

Q2 - I am not embarrassed with any book in my collection - they each have their place.