Reasonable Price for ASM 361 0

[ThothAmon]

18 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

It's funny when people see 50 copies of a book and think that has any bearing whatsoever on how many are out there. Print run was 100,000k + correct.

50 would be 0.05%

I believe that Mr. Highgrade said he bought 200 not 50.  (His photo shows about 160) So far CGC has graded approx 4000 from 9.2-9.8.  So his 200 is actually 5% not .05%.  Certainly of statistical significance.  Plus a cursory review of what's available on eBay shows no shortage there either. Sorry Yanni but when it comes to ASM 361 hi grade bar code copies are anything but scarce and that's no guess. 

[ygogolak]

40 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

I believe that Mr. Highgrade said he bought 200 not 50.  (His photo shows about 160) So far CGC has graded approx 4000 from 9.2-9.8.  So his 200 is actually 5% not .05%.  Certainly of statistical significance.  Plus a cursory review of what's available on eBay shows no shortage there either. Sorry Yanni but when it comes to ASM 361 hi grade bar code copies are anything but scarce and that's no guess. 

Um, when did I say high grade ASM 361 "barcode" (newsstand) were "scarce"?
How are those 5% of graded copies when they are raw?

[ThothAmon]

On 6/24/2017 at 1:21 PM, ygogolak said:

he simple logic is that people buying them at 7-11 or the grocery store were not taking as good of care of them as people buying them at a comic store where they also sell comic supplies. Are there deviations like Mr. Pine above? Of course.

Are you saying that Mr. HIGHGRADE's books wouldn't all be in the 9.2 to 9.8 range?   Can you at least admit the above quoted statement is incorrect?

[ygogolak]

3 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

Are you saying that Mr. HIGHGRADE's books wouldn't all be in the 9.2 to 9.8 range?   Can you at least admit the above quoted statement is incorrect?

I have no clue what you are talking about.

Edited June 27, 2017 by ygogolak

[ft88]

From a large collection of Copper to Modern mostly.  There were 15 unread copies (A few were not separated out for the pic until later)

They graded out:

Two I didn't submit

1 - 9.0

1 - 9.2

2 - 9.4

5 - 9.6

5 - 9.8

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

15 hours ago, Broke as a Joke said:

There are people that swear that 361 was not a hoarded book when it came out.  Looking back it seems comical now.

It wasn't, for reasons explained already.

I'm happy to go over them at some length again if you'd like.

Summarized version: instantly hot books...like this was....and books that sustain a reasonable aftermarket value for some time (6 months or more)...like this did...do NOT end hoarded. They end up being sold/traded/dispersed relatively quickly.

The vast majority...90% plus...of people who would have bought multiple copies of this book in February/March of 1992 would have sold/traded those multiples by the summer of that year. 

In this case, ygogolak is correct. 50 copies is hardly "hoarded." It only seems comical if one lacks perspective.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

7 hours ago, ThothAmon said:

I believe that Mr. Highgrade said he bought 200 not 50.  (His photo shows about 160) So far CGC has graded approx 4000 from 9.2-9.8.  So his 200 is actually 5% not .05%.  Certainly of statistical significance.  Plus a cursory review of what's available on eBay shows no shortage there either. Sorry Yanni but when it comes to ASM 361 hi grade bar code copies are anything but scarce and that's no guess. 

It's important, in discussions like these, to identify what one means when using qualitative, rather than quantitative, terms like "scarce" or "rare."

What are we comparing it to?

Relative to #363, #361 has a print run of perhaps 50%, right out of the gate. Relative to #365, #361 is downright scarce. But that's relative.

#361 is about as common as #360 and #359 as Direct copies, and substantially more common as newsstands, for the reasons stated above. But compared to other books of the era, #361 isn't a particularly special book in terms of overabundance of extant copies. 

X-Men from the same month, for example, would have had a print run perhaps 5 times greater than #361.

[RockMyAmadeus]

14 hours ago, divad said:

You forget that the people who post here are not representative of the world-at-large. Yes, three professional collectors hoarded the book (or attempted to) when it came out. I'm sure other dealers did as well.  But the vast number of the comic-buying public did not.  And I would venture that most of the dealers dumped their inventory below $20 each . . . Why wouldn't they? A quick $15-18 an issue in 1992? Hello???

Yup. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

8 hours ago, ygogolak said:

It's funny when people see 50 copies of a book and think that has any bearing whatsoever on how many are out there. Print run was 100,000k + correct.

50 would be 0.05%

Print run would have been perhaps 300-450k copies, which includes the newsstand copies, most of which have likely survived.

[ygogolak]

2 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Print run would have been perhaps 300-450k copies, which includes the newsstand copies, most of which have likely survived.

Damn.

[kimik]

On June 27, 2017 at 7:32 AM, divad said:

You forget that the people who post here are not representative of the world-at-large. Yes, three professional collectors hoarded the book (or attempted to) when it came out. I'm sure other dealers did as well.  But the vast number of the comic-buying public did not.  And I would venture that most of the dealers dumped their inventory below $20 each . . . Why wouldn't they? A quick $15-18 an issue in 1992? Hello???

I had a chat a year or two ago with two back issue LCS owners that are still around from way back when in the early/mid 80s. They used to order one to two extra cases of hot titles (ASM, Batman, Ghost Rider, McFarlane books, Leifeld New Mutants, but also a lot of Image titles) sometimes more, in the late 80s through 1995. They would pay $0.50 or less per copy in the mid to late 80s and start to sell off half of the overstock at $2-$3 within a month. The rest, they kept. Both of the stores had their share of misses with what they did/did not order, but now they are reaping the benefits of their approach of hanging on to some for a later date. One has mistimed things a bit on some books as they started selling their extra case of NM 98s in the $50-$100 range and two cases of Infinity Gauntlet at $5 apiece three years back (he still has more somehow - must have really gone big on that one  ) but the other one is now slowly leaking out their Copper overstock at full market.

That being said, I know that the second store did hit a cash crunch in the early 00s where they unloaded 10,000 books on another LCS. Included in that was close to a long box of NM 98s. They were a great buy at $10 apiece when they were blowing them out at a local show a month after the purchase. I remember that they were getting as much for the newest issue of Hulk/Wolverine battle issue at their booth (whichever title/number it was) as they were for the slower moving NM 98s  

Edited July 2, 2017 by kimik

[jsilverjanet]

So I sent in 2 copies a couple weeks ago to CGC. One came back 9.8 the other 9.6

the notes on the 9.6 say "Miscut"

ive subbed this book at least 20 times. I've never had this as a note let alone a drop in grade as a result. Anyone else ever see this?

[Bomber-Bob]

9 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

So I sent in 2 copies a couple weeks ago to CGC. One came back 9.8 the other 9.6

the notes on the 9.6 say "Miscut"

ive subbed this book at least 20 times. I've never had this as a note let alone a drop in grade as a result. Anyone else ever see this?

Interesting. I've never seen this either but I've heard they take a miscut into consideration on the high grades. Perhaps they are simply putting more info into the notes lately.

[Broke as a Joke]

While it may be unfortunate for you, that is good news if they are going to start keeping miscut books (especially modern/copper) from receiving 9.8's.   

[jsilverjanet]

2 minutes ago, Broke as a Joke said:

While it may be unfortunate for you, that is good news if they are going to start keeping miscut books (especially modern/copper) from receiving 9.8's.   

they should have done it from the start. I would hate to be an owner of an existing 9.8 that is miscut cause if it gets regraded (due to a signature) then it's going to become a 9.6 (the original 9.8 was false)

[fastballspecial]

I think 344 and 361 are the most miscut ASM books I have run across. Over the year I have bought quite a few and a non-miscut is pretty tough to find.

 

[divad]

Yep.

[lou_fine]

On 6/25/2017 at 4:55 PM, Wolverinex said:

On 6/25/2017 at 9:54 AM, mr_highgrade said:

 

 

Ill pay 50 bucks

Wow, now you are almost down into Chuck's buy price range since he likes to pay only pennies on the dollar for his books. 

I am willing to double that and go $100 for the whole lot because that one picture proves that this book must be almost as as common as dirt.

And as further proof of that, even I already have a pristine copy in my personal collection for just a bit over cover price. 

Edited July 23, 2017 by lou_fine

[MyThreeSons]

Just sent these into Cgc. Tried to pick the best wraps out of supply I had 

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

18 hours ago, minisink warrior said:

Just sent these into Cgc. Tried to pick the best wraps out of supply I had 

Nice.  Don't forget to send in a batch of ASM 360 and Web Of Spiderman 18 while you're at it