Reasonable Price for ASM 361 0

[Hey Kids, Comics!]

I sold a 9.6 yesterday in half an hour for $199. Sold another a few hours later for $229. I wanted to get ahead o the flood as I expect a TON to be coming!

[kimik]

Looks like a 9.8 hit $500 yesterday......

[ygogolak]

12 hours ago, kimik said:

Looks like a 9.8 hit $500 yesterday......

Yup, a newsstand. And another newsstand for $470 + $13.50 shipping.

Where you at @valiantman ?

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, ygogolak said:

Yup, a newsstand. And another newsstand for $470 + $13.50 shipping.

Where you at @valiantman ?

Direct copies also sold for that.

-J.

[ygogolak]

13 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Direct copies also sold for that.

-J.

Yes, one direct sold for $430 & one for $475 both w/free shipping. So a few bucks less than the newsstand.

 

[Jaydogrules]

2 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

Yes, one direct sold for $430 & one for $475 both w/free shipping. So a few bucks less than the newsstand.

 

Right now it looks more like a book that bell curved and just so happened to peak with a bar code sale.  

Same thing happened with ASM 300, except with that one it just so happened to peak with a couple direct copy sales.  

I noticed no one said anything about that.

Either way, it is well within the typical price fluctuations of any typical heavy printed copper book, so it means nothing at the end of the day.  

-J.

[ygogolak]

48 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Right now it looks more like a book that bell curved and just so happened to peak with a bar code sale.  

Same thing happened with ASM 300, except with that one it just so happened to peak with a couple direct copy sales.  

I noticed no one said anything about that.

Either way, it is well within the typical price fluctuations of any typical heavy printed copper book, so it means nothing at the end of the day.  

-J.

Now you're speculating on why people buy certain books. Never a good idea.

[Jaydogrules]

2 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

Now you're speculating on why people buy certain books. Never a good idea.

Not speculating at all.  Just pointing out that there is no consistent, quantifiable, or real difference in pricing, either way.  Rightfully so.  

-J.

[valiantman]

2 hours ago, ygogolak said:

Yup, a newsstand. And another newsstand for $470 + $13.50 shipping.

Where you at @valiantman ?

The only thing keeping newsstand books from clearly separating themselves in the marketplace is the fact that CGC doesn't note the difference.  When CGC starts clearly noting the difference, the market will clearly show the difference.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Newsstand copies from 1992...despite what misinformation Chuck Rozanski believes...are not rare in any way, especially in high grade, and especially for books that were "instantly hot", like this one. This was a book that, due to the distribution of the newsstand at the time, was scooped up the day it came out, as it was already a $5-$10 book for Direct market copies. That "scooping up" meant those books didn't have time to be mangled on magazine racks.

Those who try to hype newsstand copies as "rare!" or "rare in high grade!" are usually trying to sell you something.

ASM #361 has a lot of 9.8s, true...but it isn't anywhere near as common as #362, or #363, or #375, or #365 (which was the only issue of ASM to ever break the 1,000,000 copy print run barrier.) And while this was in the era of "let's print a bazillion of everything!!", it wasn't quite at that point for everything just yet. That would come with #365. ASM #361 had highER print numbers than immediately preceding issues, but not MUCH higher.

I don't have my Krause handy at the moment, but the number for #361 from Cap City were, I think, in the neighborhood of 60,000..maybe 61k? Not substantially more than #359 or #360 (in fact, I think #353, the first issue of the Punisher crossover...remember when THOSE meant something...?...was substantially higher than #361.)

#362 had much higher orders, and #363 had orders topping 102k. 102,000 copies JUST for Capital City. #363 had orders, and an extrapolated print run, almost 60% higher than #363.

And newsstand copies of ASM #361 are probably rareR than Direct copies by perhaps a factor of 1:1.05. In other words, for every 1,000 newsstand copies, there are, perhaps, 1,050 Direct copies.

Not rare.

At all.

No, I'm not currently selling any.

[porcupine48]

I bought a dozen from my local 7-11 the day it came out.

[RockMyAmadeus]

17 minutes ago, valiantman said:

The only thing keeping newsstand books from clearly separating themselves in the marketplace is the fact that CGC doesn't note the difference.  When CGC starts clearly noting the difference, the market will clearly show the difference.

...with the implicit understanding that that "difference" may be "nothing", as it will be for most books printed from 1980-1994-ish.

[ygogolak]

3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Newsstand copies from 1992...despite what misinformation Chuck Rozanski believes...are not rare in any way, especially in high grade, and especially for books that were "instantly hot", like this one. This was a book that, due to the distribution of the newsstand at the time, was scooped up the day it came out, as it was already a $5-$10 book for Direct market copies. That "scooping up" meant those books didn't have time to be mangled on magazine racks.

Those who try to hype newsstand copies as "rare!" or "rare in high grade!" are usually trying to sell you something.

ASM #361 has a lot of 9.8s, true...but it isn't anywhere near as common as #362, or #363, or #375, or #365 (which was the only issue of ASM to ever break the 1,000,000 copy print run barrier.) And while this was in the era of "let's print a bazillion of everything!!", it wasn't quite at that point for everything just yet. That would come with #365. ASM #361 had highER print numbers than immediately preceding issues, but not MUCH higher.

I don't have my Krause handy at the moment, but the number for #361 from Cap City were, I think, in the neighborhood of 60,000..maybe 61k? Not substantially more than #359 or #360 (in fact, I think #353, the first issue of the Punisher crossover...remember when THOSE meant something...?...was substantially higher than #361.)

#362 had much higher orders, and #363 had orders topping 102k. 102,000 copies JUST for Capital City. #363 had orders, and an extrapolated print run, almost 60% higher than #363.

And newsstand copies of ASM #361 are probably rareR than Direct copies by perhaps a factor of 1:1.05. In other words, for every 1,000 newsstand copies, there are, perhaps, 1,050 Direct copies.

Not rare.

At all.

No, I'm not currently selling any.

Rarity is a dangerous word to use in an instance.

the simple logic is that people buying them at 7-11 or the grocery store were not taking as good of care of them as people buying them at a comic store where they also sell comic supplies. Are there deviations like Mr. Pine above? Of course.

Dont make it harder equation than that. Is it true? nobody knows now and they will never know for certain.

[valiantman]

Just now, RockMyAmadeus said:

...with the implicit understanding that that "difference" may be "nothing", as it will be for most books printed from 1980-1994-ish.

Right, or even the difference may be that newsstand is less desirable for 1980 to 1982.  For "keys" (if we can claim that there are enough keys to call them "keys") from 1986 to present, I would expect a slight (to moderate) premium for newsstand books worth slabbing in the first place.

[ygogolak]

22 minutes ago, valiantman said:

The only thing keeping newsstand books from clearly separating themselves in the marketplace is the fact that CGC doesn't note the difference.  When CGC starts clearly noting the difference, the market will clearly show the difference.

It would have to be retroactive for it to have any real meaning.

[valiantman]

Just now, ygogolak said:

It would have to be retroactive for it to have any real meaning.

Yes, but not completely.

If Book X sells for $100 in CGC 9.8 and it sells for $120 in CGC 9.8 Newsstand, then the GPA average would be $120 for the Newsstand (once CGC starts noting them).  The CGC 9.8 would be a combination of Direct and Newsstand editions, but even if it was 50/50, there would be a $110 average for "Direct".

[Jaydogrules]

11 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Newsstand copies from 1992...despite what misinformation Chuck Rozanski believes...are not rare in any way, especially in high grade, and especially for books that were "instantly hot", like this one. This was a book that, due to the distribution of the newsstand at the time, was scooped up the day it came out, as it was already a $5-$10 book for Direct market copies. That "scooping up" meant those books didn't have time to be mangled on magazine racks.

Those who try to hype newsstand copies as "rare!" or "rare in high grade!" are usually trying to sell you something.

ASM #361 has a lot of 9.8s, true...but it isn't anywhere near as common as #362, or #363, or #375, or #365 (which was the only issue of ASM to ever break the 1,000,000 copy print run barrier.) And while this was in the era of "let's print a bazillion of everything!!", it wasn't quite at that point for everything just yet. That would come with #365. ASM #361 had highER print numbers than immediately preceding issues, but not MUCH higher.

I don't have my Krause handy at the moment, but the number for #361 from Cap City were, I think, in the neighborhood of 60,000..maybe 61k? Not substantially more than #359 or #360 (in fact, I think #353, the first issue of the Punisher crossover...remember when THOSE meant something...?...was substantially higher than #361.)

#362 had much higher orders, and #363 had orders topping 102k. 102,000 copies JUST for Capital City. #363 had orders, and an extrapolated print run, almost 60% higher than #363.

And newsstand copies of ASM #361 are probably rareR than Direct copies by perhaps a factor of 1:1.05. In other words, for every 1,000 newsstand copies, there are, perhaps, 1,050 Direct copies.

Not rare.

At all.

No, I'm not currently selling any.

+1

This.

-J.

[ygogolak]

3 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Yes, but not completely.

If Book X sells for $100 in CGC 9.8 and it sells for $120 in CGC 9.8 Newsstand, then the GPA average would be $120 for the Newsstand (once CGC starts noting them).  The CGC 9.8 would be a combination of Direct and Newsstand editions, but even if it was 50/50, there would be a $110 average for "Direct".

All were taking is numbers on the census. Not sales prices. There are hundreds of ASM 361 newsstands that may have never been recorded. So, unless it's retroactive the numbers will be inaccurately skewed.

[valiantman]

2 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

All were taking is numbers on the census. Not sales prices. There are hundreds of ASM 361 newsstands that may have never been recorded. So, unless it's retroactive the numbers will be inaccurately skewed.

OK, I thought you were quoting my "difference in the marketplace" statement.

Yes, we'll have a very hard time estimating direct vs. newsstand for CGC graded copies, but we've always had that problem since they don't note them in the first place.  For ASM #300, I've looked at all copies for sale on Ebay at different times for years, and the ratio of direct edition to newsstand for CGC graded books has been 12-to-1 consistently.  

Despite RMA's assertion that we're looking at 1:1.05 ratios, when it comes to slabs, it's clearly not.  By no means do I believe that 12-to-1 is the ratio of direct to newsstand for ASM #300, but I do believe that could be an accurate reflection of the ratio for "CGC worthy (that is, already slabbed)" copies of ASM #300, which speaks to the condition of the books, the likelihood of many non-collectors keeping their newsstands 25+ years, and the likelihood that those copies (not returned/destroyed) will end up in a CGC slab.  12-to-1 for direct vs. newsstand for ASM #300... consistently, for a decade.

Could it change?  Sure.  Will it switch from 12:1 to 1.05:1?  No way.

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

the simple logic is that people buying them at 7-11 or the grocery store were not taking as good of care of them as people buying them at a comic store where they also sell comic supplies. Are there deviations like Mr. Pine above? Of course.

 

Sure, and that's why it's simple logic.

In this case, however, this is an exception that makes the rule. Books like Superman #50, ASM #252, Thor #337, Batman #457, and other "hot the day they came out" books weren't subject to the usual conditions.

And, for the most part in this era, there is going to be a much higher survival rate in high grade for newsstands, because even casual buyers were taking better care of them than in the past.