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Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

Started by namisgr,

4,963 posts in this topic

originalisbest

originalisbest

Posted
Posted
The right edge on that FF looks slightly curved to me.

 

:shrug:

 

-slym

 

Yeah, I don't think there's a 90-degree angle or straight edge left anywhere on that book. :(

Um, don't let your paranoia drive you too far over the edge on this one -- the curvature you see is due to the picture taken, not the book itself. :)

Sure, it's probably just a coincidence that all his books look like this, given his pedigree and all... :whistle:

 

My friend, I don't doubt that every one of these books has enjoyed(?) a spinal shift. HOWEVER, noting JUST the "curved" nature of the FF's open edge that was called into question, that is pretty clearly due to the nature of the fisheyeing from the photo taken, not the book itself.

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Bookery

Bookery

Posted
Posted

This book is a perfect example of why this thread is mostly about speculation run rampant.

 

Quite clearly, something happened to a couple of the early books that Bob posted, something that altered the way the pages lay. However, to assume that every book is like this because of a bad pressing job is just ridiculous.

 

If this book which obviously has not been pressed exhibits this same type of perceived defect, then why shouldn't thousands of other books. I have bought original owner collections that many, many, many of the books exhibit this same amount of paper showing on the right edge. These books had never been pressed and were simply purchased and placed in a box for years and years.

 

Lets get a little perspective. These books were mass produced to sell to children. The printing process was far from perfect and trying to make a "square" book was probably the farthest through from their minds, unless is actually saved them a little money on paper. Cheap paper, cheap printing processes and cheap paper cutting tools all contribute to the things we are seeing.

 

 

Likely none of us is in favor of damaging a book for profit. And clearly there have been some instances of attempts of abuse of the system, but I don't think it is nearly as rampant as many on here believe. I think the boards does a great job of showing where problems lie, but I think people go over board many times. I also believe people see what they want to see in many cases.

 

Excellent post, Dale! Not 10 minutes ago, because of this thread, I grabbed a random box of silver/bronze from storage and flipped through the contents. There were at least 5-10 (or more) comics in that box (stored away for a decade or more) that looked EXACTLY like some of these samples. Several of the books that looked this way (late '60s Marvels) were in a run, leading me to believe how they were stored at some point has a lot to do with this... so yes, a run or a small collection of books stored in the same place under the same conditions might all exhibit the effect. It is NOT RARE. From this very limited survey, and partially from memory, it seems it occurs more with Marvel than other companies (DC, Gold Key), but that's not conclusive.

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Bookery

Bookery

Posted
Posted
What is he doing to those books??

 

:facepalm:

 

 

 

-slym

 

Peeling out on the books with a car hm

And then "fixing" them! lol

 

SteamRoller.gif

 

A few years back in our town, the local health inspector discovered that the Chinese restaurant down the road was using an old Buick in their back parking lot to roll over and shred their cabbage. True story.

 

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drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted
The upshot of witch-hunting threads like this, no matter how well-intentioned, is now, perfectly legit books with this appearance will be called into question. So be it, with proper back-cover scans or in-hand inspection, that's good enough for my purposes. Others' mileage may vary. :)

That's exactly right. (thumbs u

 

I will personally avoid books that look like this moving forward...and moving backwards for that matter as I wouldn't have bought them in the pre-CGC days either, they're just plain fugly regardless of the number on the label. :screwy:

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Boba

Boba

Posted
Posted
What is he doing to those books??

 

:facepalm:

 

 

 

-slym

 

Peeling out on the books with a car hm

And then "fixing" them! lol

 

SteamRoller.gif

 

A few years back in our town, the local health inspector discovered that the Chinese restaurant down the road was using an old Buick in their back parking lot to roll over and shred their cabbage. True story.

I hope they were vegetarians :P

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originalisbest

originalisbest

Posted
Posted
The upshot of witch-hunting threads like this, no matter how well-intentioned, is now, perfectly legit books with this appearance will be called into question. So be it, with proper back-cover scans or in-hand inspection, that's good enough for my purposes. Others' mileage may vary. :)

That's exactly right. (thumbs u

 

I will personally avoid books that look like this moving forward...and moving backwards for that matter as I wouldn't have bought them in the pre-CGC days either, they're just plain fugly regardless of the number on the label. :screwy:

 

More power to you, that should make otherwise nice books, that aren't fudged with, cheaper for me. Not to mention, books that were innocently pictured via a camera, making them appear to be "curved", and sending some less-informed buyers running for the hills. I can work with that!

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Rip

Rip

Posted
Posted

I agree with you that this defect happens. I am recently working on a large collection myself with some books that look like this as well. It happens.

It does make one worry, now is every book with this defect going to be now tossed into the fire.

 

HOWEVER, when you look and certain sellers inventory, it looks like a plague has swept through. The rate is much much higher. And when you look where its happening, and combine that with the previous examples of the same book looking far different, well it makes for quite an interesting case. No one can really say how many books have been manipulated, but it's certainly is worth raising an eye at don't you think.

 

It would be worth figuring out who was doing these poor pressing jobs at the very least

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slym2none

slym2none

Posted
Posted

 

That book looks curved, too - and the slab is straight.

 

 

 

-slym

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originalisbest

originalisbest

Posted
Posted

 

That particular book, while may possibly have had a facejobbed spine (normal wear shifted around to the back) I have zero problem with its open edge. On the back scan you can see that that open edge is straight and true. If you have access to a paper cutter, do up a few signature folds on a piece of notebook paper, lay 'er into the cutter and have at it -- with even a slightly loose grip, you'll see how the paper will shift and produce a natural curve, just like the original factory trimming here. That's the cause of that particular front cover open edge appearance, as manufactured, nothing nefarious. Possible facejob spine shift is a separate issue on that one. :)

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InvstmntComcSuply

InvstmntComcSuply

Posted
Posted
I wonder if I have any books printed by the Arvel Omics Roup hm

 

It happens in nature quite a bit. Not every spine that is a 2 cent variant has been face-jobbed.

 

Yes, but didn't we decide that the fanning of the pages along the edge was the giveaway for the Reverse Spine Roll pressing?

 

Apparently the Cole Schave books were not pressed using that technique, as the spine doesn't appear to have shifted, yet, the pages are still fanned out from their previous state.

 

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Sqeggs

Sqeggs

Posted
Posted
If this is so, and it's a defect, shouldn't the graders be grading those books with defects lower? I'm referring to the earlier slabbed books that were shown.

 

That is what I don't understand.,these were supposed to be recent submissions and I believe we were told that they were going to grade the "facejobs" differently.

 

To me, this is the most bothersome aspect. The fanning of the pages clearly detracts from the appearance of a book in the view of most collectors. However those books may have been technically improved according to CGC's grading standards, it's disappointing that they ended up with higher grades when to most collectors they are less appealing than they were before whatever work was done on them.

 

Seems like a flaw in CGC's grading criteria for this to be possible.

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drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted
If this is so, and it's a defect, shouldn't the graders be grading those books with defects lower? I'm referring to the earlier slabbed books that were shown.

 

That is what I don't understand.,these were supposed to be recent submissions and I believe we were told that they were going to grade the "facejobs" differently.

To me, this is the most bothersome aspect. The fanning of the pages clearly detracts from the appearance of a book in the view of most collectors. However those books may have been technically improved according to CGC's grading standards, it's disappointing that they ended up with higher grades when to most collectors they are less appealing than they were before whatever work was done on them.

 

Seems like a flaw in CGC's grading criteria for this to be possible.

(thumbs u

 

Flaw...loophole...whatever you want to call it, it's a big hot mess. But when you're the one doing the work and also evaluating the quality of your work, you get to make up the rules. :screwy:

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GACollectibles

GACollectibles

Posted
Posted
What is he doing to those books??

 

:facepalm:

 

 

 

-slym

 

Peeling out on the books with a car hm

And then "fixing" them! lol

 

SteamRoller.gif

 

A few years back in our town, the local health inspector discovered that the Chinese restaurant down the road was using an old Buick in their back parking lot to roll over and shred their cabbage. True story.

 

How did they prepare cat?

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