Comic Book Spine Realignment Therapy, turn your 8.5's into 9.2's!

[NewWorldOrder]

Isn't Mark Zaid supposed to be doing that?

 

Why aren't you ripping him a new hole?

 

 

I never trust a guy who tucks in Polo type shirts into jeans.

 

 

[comix4fun]

Isn't Mark Zaid supposed to be doing that?

 

Why aren't you ripping him a new hole?

 

 

I never trust a guy who tucks in Polo type shirts into jeans.

 

 

 

I am the same with guys who wear shirts with no sleeves and aren't involved in any sort of manual labor at the time.

 

Also socks with sandals.

 

Sometimes visors indoors.

[VintageComics]

It's quite possible that the majority of the wear has been positioned on the apex of the spine and not on the back cover...

 

Have you even looked at the picture of the spine of the 8.5? The "apex of the spine" might be 1/32" (although theoretically it has 0" width), this beast has numerous 1/8 - 1/4" spine stresses.

 

Well, Instead of going around in circles, I happen to have a raw Avenger #1 sitting right here.

 

I just measured the distance from the apex on the old book to the apex on the new book - the distance between the apex on a perfect centred copy to half way through Thor's helmet wing is about 1/8" (sorry Bob, not quite 1/4"). So the cover/book was shifted back about 1/8"

 

Now I don't have a micrometre handy (mine is packaged away) but the apex of the spine seems to be roughly about 1/8" tall as well (front cover to back cover). Maybe a hair less on my mid grade copy, might be slightly more on a higher grade copy if it has a decent spine with some bounce.

 

So yes, while there may be stresses, moving the majority of them onto the apex (which is what I said in my earlier posts on the subject) is probably what happened if I had to guess making them less noticeable and definitely less distracting.

[oakman29]

Check this one out.

 

wow when you see the back cover, you can see the old spine ticks just staring at you...

Wow! Did Showcase New England change their name? That is the exact graphics they have,just a thought.

[zzutak]

I want him to say, "we will re-evaluate how we grade."

 

Paul and The CGC have commented in this thread because they realize that in this instance of pressing the ultimate cause of the problem is The CGC. They missed the defects. And if it is so easy to hide defects simply by moving them to the back cover then that says there is a problem with the grading process.

 

Many of you are comparing this with the Ewert situation. And it is comparable, but not for the reasons you are thinking. What Ewert did was not illegal, immoral, or necessarily wrong. We don't like it. The hobby does not accept it. But Ewert can do what ever he wants with his books. But by exposing that Ewert was trimming what we all really were really exposed to was that The CGC was missing trimming. This situation is the same. Spine roll removal, or spine roll creation...the same process causing two different results. One great, one disputed. But what spine creation has exposed is that The CGC can be duped by "hiding" defects. The defects are still there, but they are moved to the back cover. Why does The CGC now miss those defects simply because they are on the back cover? That is the question The CGC needs to answer because that is the trick that exposes a flaw in their grading system.

A clear, concise, and thorough description of both the problem and the solution. Nice. (thumbs u

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I'll state this again. What the do you want him to say or do?

 

We are stopping all grading until this gets resolved.

 

Nothing goes out until we come to the bottom of this.

 

All CGC graders will be "retrained" and "yelled at" for failing to catch this new "pressing manipulation".

 

Tape will no longer be tolerated because the CGC forum has spoken. Doesn't matter if I need to talk to my boss about this.

 

I want him to say, "we will re-evaluate how we grade."

 

While I haven't seen a close up of what the new back cover looks like, I'm not so sure it's spine stresses on the back cover that are causing the problem.

 

It's quite possible that the majority of the wear has been positioned on the apex of the spine and not on the back cover...

 

If that is the case, then CGC has actually been grading consistently because to my knowledge they do grade both front and rear covers and I am not sure that the theory that the front cover carries all the weight and back cover doesn't is true - at least on books that I have submitted. CGC does allow more wear right on the apex of the spine than it does on either the front or back covers. This seems more consistent with what I have been seeing.

 

What I didn't understand was how a book could fetch a high grade with the pages fanned.

The reason why the books are grading higher is likely because both covers are graded equally. However, flaws are not graded equally. For example:

An 1/8" CBC is 1 point

a 1/4" CBC is 2 points

a 1/2" CBC is 3 points

The 1/4" CBC that extends from the front cover to 1/4" on the rear is counted as 2 + 2 = 4 points.

Once the book is manipulated and the entire 1/2" crease is on the back cover it only deducts 3 points.

[MrBedrock]

I'll state this again. What the do you want him to say or do?

 

We are stopping all grading until this gets resolved.

 

Nothing goes out until we come to the bottom of this.

 

All CGC graders will be "retrained" and "yelled at" for failing to catch this new "pressing manipulation".

 

Tape will no longer be tolerated because the CGC forum has spoken. Doesn't matter if I need to talk to my boss about this.

 

I want him to say, "we will re-evaluate how we grade."

 

While I haven't seen a close up of what the new back cover looks like, I'm not so sure it's spine stresses on the back cover that are causing the problem.

 

The color breaking stresses are still there. They aren't on the front cover so they must be somewhere. The point is that right now if you simply move them from the front cover you effectively "hide" them from The CGC. That should not happen.

[ARWilson-migration]

With this repair it is gonna inflate the number of high grade copies and ruin the investment potential

 

You mean since the census numbers are going to artificially inflate prices will decline due to simple supply-and-demand numbers, but to make matters worse, the price declines will be exasperated b/c people don't want to buy over-graded books?

 

 

This is just like pressing ....everybody was a crybaby and they are doing it....now everybody is upset because they have to regrade.... Don't be a big fat sucker....we have to do it now.....

Not everyone is doing it. Are you always this much of a ?

 

He's usually worse, give it time...

[TupennyConan]

Isn't Mark Zaid supposed to be doing that?

 

Why aren't you ripping him a new hole?

 

 

I never trust a guy who tucks in Polo type shirts into jeans.

 

 

 

I am the same with guys who wear shirts with no sleeves and aren't involved in any sort of manual labor at the time.

 

Also socks with sandals.

 

Sometimes visors indoors.

 

I'll add no white after labor day.

[VintageComics]

I'll state this again. What the do you want him to say or do?

 

We are stopping all grading until this gets resolved.

 

Nothing goes out until we come to the bottom of this.

 

All CGC graders will be "retrained" and "yelled at" for failing to catch this new "pressing manipulation".

 

Tape will no longer be tolerated because the CGC forum has spoken. Doesn't matter if I need to talk to my boss about this.

 

I want him to say, "we will re-evaluate how we grade."

 

While I haven't seen a close up of what the new back cover looks like, I'm not so sure it's spine stresses on the back cover that are causing the problem.

 

The color breaking stresses are still there. They aren't on the front cover so they must be somewhere. The point is that right now if you simply move them from the front cover you effectively "hide" them from The CGC. That should not happen.

 

If the majority of the wear is moved to the apex of the spine they may not deduct for them as greatly as they would if they were on either front or rear covers.

 

[blazingbob]

The Avengers #1 thread started on Friday and this thread started yesterday. How exactly is CGC "ducking on this" over the weekend? I emailed Paul yesterday and he responded twice which frankly he didn't have to do since technically it is the weekend.

 

What chain of accountability has been fudged?

 

Ok, it's your book.

 

You upgraded it from a 8.5 to the 9.2.

 

$15K to $80K. This thread starts.

 

CGC tells you to send it back, do you?

 

What is CGC looking at financially on their end? CGC has the potential to absorb a $65K hit if they regrade the book lower. It's already in the 9.2 holder. Sound like something Paul should do on his own or maybe you have to talk to the boss about that.

 

There are credibility issues with this so maybe your take the financial hit. But ask yourself would you be as "willing" if it were your money.

 

That's the reality of this thread. This is not something to be addressed IMMEDIATELY.

[TupennyConan]

The point is that right now if you simply move them from the front cover you effectively "hide" them from The CGC. That should not happen.

 

That's worth just about $100K to me!

[Calamerica]

CAL's here?

 

 

CAL has been here from the get-go. Get over it.

 

CAL does things he wants to so when he wants to...

[comix4fun]

Isn't Mark Zaid supposed to be doing that?

 

Why aren't you ripping him a new hole?

 

 

I never trust a guy who tucks in Polo type shirts into jeans.

 

 

 

I am the same with guys who wear shirts with no sleeves and aren't involved in any sort of manual labor at the time.

 

Also socks with sandals.

 

Sometimes visors indoors.

 

I'll add no white after labor day.

 

 

I've always heard that "no white after labor day" but nothing else. If that were strictly followed the last time anyone would have worn white would have been after the FIRST Labor Day, since there's no instruction as to when it's then OK to start wearing it again.

 

I am a slave to fashion, as everyone well knows, and I am paralyzed with fear over this.

[VintageComics]

I agree with Bob, plenty of armchair advice in the thread. Some patience is needed. Not everything travels at the speed of light.

 

That's why I started the "how would you run your grading company" thread a few months ago.

 

Even if Stu and Davenport started their own grading company from the ground up, eventually there would be an uproar about something and witch hunts for heads.

 

There's always something to argue over.

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

It's quite possible that the majority of the wear has been positioned on the apex of the spine and not on the back cover...

 

Have you even looked at the picture of the spine of the 8.5? The "apex of the spine" might be 1/32" (although theoretically it has 0" width), this beast has numerous 1/8 - 1/4" spine stresses.

 

Well, Instead of going around in circles, I happen to have a raw Avenger #1 sitting right here.

 

I just measured the distance from the apex on the old book to the apex on the new book - the distance between the apex on a perfect centred copy to half way through Thor's helmet wing is about 1/8" (sorry Bob, not quite 1/4").

 

Now I don't have a micrometre handy (mine is packaged away) but the apex of the spine seems to be roughly about 1/8" tall as well (front cover to back cover). Maybe a hair less on my mid grade copy, might be slightly more on a higher grade copy if it has a decent spine with some bounce.

 

So yes, while there may be stresses, moving the majority of them onto the apex (which is what I said in my earlier posts on the subject) is probably what happened if I had to guess making them less noticeable and definitely less distracting.

 

I took your Apex and ran with this. After subbing in all the appropriate variables into the Avengers #1 equation this is what I found.

 

 

Pie 3.14 = 7.5\8.0 Avengers 1 sitting in a 9.2 holder.

[sl4ppy]

Ok, it's your book.

 

You upgraded it from a 8.5 to the 9.2.

 

$15K to $80K. This thread starts.

 

CGC tells you to send it back, do you?

 

What is CGC looking at financially on their end? CGC has the potential to absorb a $65K hit if they regrade the book lower. It's already in the 9.2 holder. Sound like something Paul should do on his own or maybe you have to talk to the boss about that.

 

There are credibility issues with this so maybe your take the financial hit. But ask yourself would you be as "willing" if it were your money.

 

That's the reality of this thread. This is not something to be addressed IMMEDIATELY.

 

Isn't this basically true of *any* resubmitted book that gets a better label due to mis-grading?

 

It seems to me that the real issue here is about grading inconsistencies in general (and who's responsible/to blame for then) and not about this book in particular? This Avengers #1 is just a glaringly obvious example that results in someone, either CGC, the owner, or the hobby as a whole eating the cost of the mis-grading...

[MrBedrock]

I'll state this again. What the do you want him to say or do?

 

We are stopping all grading until this gets resolved.

 

Nothing goes out until we come to the bottom of this.

 

All CGC graders will be "retrained" and "yelled at" for failing to catch this new "pressing manipulation".

 

Tape will no longer be tolerated because the CGC forum has spoken. Doesn't matter if I need to talk to my boss about this.

 

I want him to say, "we will re-evaluate how we grade."

 

While I haven't seen a close up of what the new back cover looks like, I'm not so sure it's spine stresses on the back cover that are causing the problem.

 

The color breaking stresses are still there. They aren't on the front cover so they must be somewhere. The point is that right now if you simply move them from the front cover you effectively "hide" them from The CGC. That should not happen.

 

If the majority of the wear is moved to the apex of the spine they may not deduct for them as greatly as they would if they were on either front or rear covers.

Well that's my point Roy. Listen to me..."IF THE CGC DOESN"T SEE THEM THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE CGC"

[originalisbest]

Good of you to respond, Paul. (thumbs u

 

However, regarding...

 

'We'd like to thank the boards for pointing out these concerns. You watch the Watchmen and it is appreciated. More to come. Thanks.'

 

...could I ask why previous, extremely educational threads related to similar activity have been deleted from the boards?

 

I'm thinking of the Ewert-related threads and the 'Manufactured Gold' thread and a few others?

 

You know what they say about learning from history, but if that history isn't available to our new boards members...?

Watchmen?

 

Spiderphill adds his name to very long list of diligent boardies that have brought "The Game" into the light for the rest of us. Some of who have made tremendous amounts of dataminig and presentation efforts.

 

Someone post a link to ONE thread where a fee-based "professional expert" brought something to light. Just ONE thread over the decade. And not just this chatboard, ANY board.

 

I don't think anyone can. If there is one, unlike the books being discussed, it WOULD be an anomaly.

 

As far as I've seen it's ALWAYS a boardie.

 

Which begs another question: How many times do boardies have to drag 'The Game' before your eyes before understanding takes place? How many?

 

 

Don't forget the instance where a shill summarized a yawn. (thumbs u

 

And the agreement - when two pennies aren't enough:

 

Pressing in the hands of the people is a good thing.

 

Pressing in the hands of the people, as encouraged by CGC's grading standards, which includes non-disclosure of pressing on CGC labels, is not comparable to what DupDummy has had a career of.

 

It isn't the same game getting gamed by gamers in a rigged gaming system.

 

 

Oh tee-hee... how cute! You still think I'm a shill (for what or whom, I'm not sure.) Care to guess what I think you are, cw?

[TupennyConan]

Isn't Mark Zaid supposed to be doing that?

 

Why aren't you ripping him a new hole?

 

 

I never trust a guy who tucks in Polo type shirts into jeans.

 

 

 

I am the same with guys who wear shirts with no sleeves and aren't involved in any sort of manual labor at the time.

 

Also socks with sandals.

 

Sometimes visors indoors.

 

I'll add no white after labor day.

 

 

I've always heard that "no white after labor day" but nothing else. If that were strictly followed the last time anyone would have worn white would have been after the FIRST Labor Day, since there's no instruction as to when it's then OK to start wearing it again.

 

I am a slave to fashion, as everyone well knows, and I am paralyzed with fear over this.

 

I too am a fashioinista, as has been thoroughly documented on these Boards for years. This is an irrefutable Tupenny character trait.

 

Your post has altered my day for the worse.