Answer from CGC.........

[BassGMan]

All of read_em's sig lines contain one of these CGC ads that we are talking about. He changes them too so that we all get a good variety of them.

[awe4one]

We are hearing all the time how various companies pizz people off by certain controversial decisions they make. Can we expect CGC to be any different kind of business than any other out there? Or should the comic book industry have to follow some kind of moral guidelines that other businesses do not have to follow?

 

CGC's business is providing a service built on the absolute trust of it's clientele and reputation within the hobby. As well as having a virtual monopoly in the hobby. There aren't many companies anywhere out there with a similar business model. If that trust is lost, the company is in dire trouble. CGC is coming very close to the edge in this situation. They've already lost my trust...and once a company's trust and reputation is lost, it's near impossible to ever regain fully. The suspicion will ALWAYS be there.

 

That's the difference. CGC can't act like any 'ol corporation. They are dealing with a niche specialty market. Alienate that market and they're doomed.

 

Jim

[Foolkiller]

Y'know, the only Farkus I can think of is "Sid Farkus" the bra salesman that George Costanza goes to when he's looking for a job.

 

Then he feels Farkus's boss's material.

 

Later on Farkus is pitched the "bro" in a later episode.

 

"You felt her material?! Whatever happened to my that's a lovely dress, may I have this dance?!" -- Frank Costanza

[Foolkiller]

"Alienate that market and they're doomed."

 

Jim, I totally agree with a great deal of the sentiment that you've put forth in this whole thread. I still am on the side of it's a little too early to react, and I don't treat this as a big deal. I'm not minimizing how you feel about it, but I just don't view it as an important issue, or I should say, as the preeminent issue it's being made out to.

 

The problem is, they're not alienating enough of the market. Too many people are still buying CGC books, there's still demand. I really, really wonder how much of the collecting community cares about this issue. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the sense that the vocal minority on the boards does not represent how most people feel. For better or worse.

[garthgantu]

If wet cleaning in water is restoration, then why isn't pressing with humidity restoration? Just because the staples are removed during wet cleaning, but not during NDP pressing with humidity?

Because wet cleaning can be detected, while pressing with a little humidity cannot.

 

If that's the case, then why do books with replaced/cleaned staples get a green label and not a purple label?

I believe that sometimes books with replaced staples get PLODs...cleaned staples I'm not so sure about.

 

If a duck eats and then goes for a swim five minutes later, will he get a cramp?

Only if he's been eating pate.

[awe4one]

The problem is, they're not alienating enough of the market. Too many people are still buying CGC books, there's still demand. I really, really wonder how much of the collecting community cares about this issue. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the sense that the vocal minority on the boards does not represent how most people feel. For better or worse.

 

We won't know for certain until CGC makes the decision public...and if CGC doesn't make it known, I sure as hell will be writing some letters to all the comic mags and websites I can to make it known.

 

I don't expect everyone to follow my lead...everyone's different. I personally think this issue will resonate with collectors far more than CGC, or some here, anticipate. Steve and Co. should very carefully gauge their next moves and hope they don't choose the wrong avenue...

 

Jim

[qualitycomix]

"Alienate that market and they're doomed."

 

Jim, I totally agree with a great deal of the sentiment that you've put forth in this whole thread. I still am on the side of it's a little too early to react, and I don't treat this as a big deal. I'm not minimizing how you feel about it, but I just don't view it as an important issue, or I should say, as the preeminent issue it's being made out to.

 

The problem is, they're not alienating enough of the market. Too many people are still buying CGC books, there's still demand. I really, really wonder how much of the collecting community cares about this issue. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the sense that the vocal minority on the boards does not represent how most people feel. For better or worse.

 

There are a great number of people who don't know and don't care. But I've been hearing from a lot of pissed off BSDs lately. Those are the guys that drive the $$$ into this market. There will always be a demand for certified books, but at what price point?

[Farkus-migration]

Okay, you are obviously a CGC shill who was sent in here to get all riled up and get us off the "pressing for dollars" angle.

 

In answer to your original question, I am not sure how long you have been here, but the CGC ads in Wizard have been ridiculed multiple times and are currently (?) in some sig-lines as well. These are the "joke ads" we refer to from time to time, and include only overpriced and overhyped Moderns in CGC 9.8 cases.

 

That is why the $15 was used in the description, the 9.8 in the grade, and the $100 as a sale price, which is a long way from an Action #1. If these ads were Silver/Gold based (CBC may have some like this), then no one would have a problem with them, although the prices would nearly be equal for NM copies and not hype up the young 'uns.

 

Go buy a Wizard, or better yet look up some previous threads on Wizard ads or postings, and then come back a bit more informed. Thanks.

You can always tell when someone's losing an arguement. They start making wild accusations and just ignore the points someone has made that makes them look foolish.

 

So, are you going to continue to ignore the questions I've asked you? Would you like me to repeat them?

 

Your weak arguement ealier implied that CGC's grading costs were 100% stable, while the examples I gave weren't. If you think CGC's prices...or any companies prices...are 100% stable, then I still feel you need to seriously rethink how smart you feel you really are. And yes, that includes prices for their modern grading tier. Seriously...how long have you even been aware of the graded comic market? Because if you think CGC's prices have been 100 percent stable...then you're already about 2 steps behind what most of the other people in this forum know.

 

And sure, people have ridiculed those adds in here before. Like I said, it seems like some of you are in here just to gritch for gritchings sake.

 

Now...begone...and come back when you're worthy.

[FFB]

If wet cleaning in water is restoration, then why isn't pressing with humidity restoration? Just because the staples are removed during wet cleaning, but not during NDP pressing with humidity?

Because wet cleaning can be detected, while pressing with a little humidity cannot.

 

Says who? CGC? You'll have to excuse me, but their stance on the matter seems a little convenient at this point.

 

If that's the case, then why do books with replaced/cleaned staples get a green label and not a purple label?

I believe that sometimes books with replaced staples get PLODs...cleaned staples I'm not so sure about.

 

Nope. Cleaned and replaced staples get green labels, not PLODs, unless some other work was done to the book.

[Foolkiller]

"There will always be a demand for certified books, but at what price point? "

 

I agree. But the thing is, there's going to be a drop in prices, but I'm not sure it's all related to consumer confidence.

 

Look, to me, 9.4 and 9.6 and 9.8 books have gotten waaaaay too high. And if you've bought in the last year or two, I think those books were bought at the peak of prices. Now, I think we'll see a drop in prices and we're on the way down. this is the beginning. Are books suddenly going to sell for nothing? No. But if I had a stockpile of 9.4s, 9.6s and 9.8s, I'd sure be looking to sell right now. It might be a long, long time to get back to those peak prices.

 

And the pressing controversey doesn't help either. It does lessen the perception, and that's what counts, even if it's not 100% true and accurate. People think it is the case.

[Farkus-migration]

Y'know, the only Farkus I can think of is "Sid Farkus" the bra salesman that George Costanza goes to when he's looking for a job.

 

Then he feels Farkus's boss's material.

 

Later on Farkus is pitched the "bro" in a later episode.

 

"You felt her material?! Whatever happened to my that's a lovely dress, may I have this dance?!" -- Frank Costanza

 

Red Ryder would be very dissappointed.

[garthgantu]

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go get a drink out of the toilet (since there's not a sign telling me not to).

 

Actually, there IS a sign... but it's in English.

[mrwoogieman]

Y'know, the only Farkus I can think of is "Sid Farkus" the bra salesman that George Costanza goes to when he's looking for a job.

 

Then he feels Farkus's boss's material.

 

Later on Farkus is pitched the "bro" in a later episode.

 

"You felt her material?! Whatever happened to my that's a lovely dress, may I have this dance?!" -- Frank Costanza

 

Red Ryder would be very dissappointed.

 

 

HE HAD YELLOW EYES!!

 

Scott Farkus -- run for your lives!

[garthgantu]

Chris, isn't this really just the world we live in? Isn't most business in general more interested in their own financial well being than how SOME people view them as doing something unethical? ... Can we expect CGC to be any different kind of business than any other out there? Or should the comic book industry have to follow some kind of moral guidelines that other businesses do not have to follow?

 

Sid, your point is a reasonable one. Does Crest toothpaste ever feature stained, yellowing teeth in its ads? No. That's not a tacit guarantee on Crest's part that you're teeth will be perfect after x number of brushings with Crest.

 

Does every slabbed book bring a financial bonanza to the slabber? Of course not. Would you expect CGC to feature a 4.5 copy of X-men 94 in its ads? I didn't think so.

 

All of that said, I still wince when I see those ads, because slabbing comics is still a relatively arcane practice/subject, and I'm sure there are kids and suckers of all ages who have been influenced by these ads in ways that have NOT ended up with financial gains.

 

CGC isn't doing anything in those ads that hasn't been done in other collectibles markets, including Beanie Babies, sportscards, etc. However, I'm not sure that's the category CGC wants to be in, or wants comic books to be in...on the other hand...

[Farkus-migration]

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go get a drink out of the toilet (since there's not a sign telling me not to).

 

Actually, there IS a sign... but it's in English.

No...that sign says "Don't eat the big white mint".

 

Which means, after you quietly relieve yourself, you probably help yourself to the big yellow mint instead.

[RS]

CGC has every right to market their product in any way they choose, and in this case, their ads are NOT misleading. They are a reflection of what's happening in the hobby, not what they have invented in their heads.

 

My only problem is that the CGC ads do not accurately reflect the true costs involved. These show a comic in NM condition compared to a CGC 9.8 copy, but fail to mention that CGC charges $15 to grade a single Modern book, there are significant S&H costs both ways and that the chances of receiving a 9.8 grade are not guaranteed.

 

That why the want you to buy your 9.8 Modern form on one the eBay big two ( PLATINUMCOMICS ALLCOMIXS ) and not send your new books in to get slabbed thats why the cost is so high.

 

and in the adds they never show any old comics just modern [#@$%!!!].

[Tango 'n Cash]

Your weak arguement ealier implied that CGC's grading costs were 100% stable, while the examples I gave weren't.

 

That's why I recommended you BUY a Wizard mag, LOOK OVER the ads that the adults have been talking about, and then COME BACK when you know a thing or two about the conversation at hand.

[Tango 'n Cash]

and in the adds they never show any old comics just modern [#@$%!!!].

 

That's not what Farkus said, and he uses Action #1 as an example of a CGC before and after ad.

[BassGMan]

Chris, isn't this really just the world we live in? Isn't most business in general more interested in their own financial well being than how SOME people view them as doing something unethical? ... Can we expect CGC to be any different kind of business than any other out there? Or should the comic book industry have to follow some kind of moral guidelines that other businesses do not have to follow?

 

Sid, your point is a reasonable one. Does Crest toothpaste ever feature stained, yellowing teeth in its ads? No. That's not a tacit guarantee on Crest's part that you're teeth will be perfect after x number of brushings with Crest.

 

Does every slabbed book bring a financial bonanza to the slabber? Of course not. Would you expect CGC to feature a 4.5 copy of X-men 94 in its ads? I didn't think so.

 

All of that said, I still wince when I see those ads, because slabbing comics is still a relatively arcane practice/subject, and I'm sure there are kids and suckers of all ages who have been influenced by these ads in ways that have NOT ended up with financial gains.

 

CGC isn't doing anything in those ads that hasn't been done in other collectibles markets, including Beanie Babies, sportscards, etc. However, I'm not sure that's the category CGC wants to be in, or wants comic books to be in...on the other hand...

 

Garth, I am in total agreement on that one. I cannot stand advertisements that cater to the naive. Marketing fast food to fat people, tight jeans to young kids, cigarettes and alcohol as a way to "live it up". There is irresponsible and deceptive advertising everywhere. I do not like those CGC ads. They are entitled to print them sure, but personally I think they are catering to the gullable as well. BUT, with all that said, I also believe that we consumers have a responsibility to ourselves to not be susceptable to that. I don't like McDonalds selling their unhealthy food to kids, but I blame the kid's parents for taking them to eat there. I have always held more weight on the side of personal responsibility than I do with the techniques businesses use to market their products. If I fall victim to some misleading marketing campaign due to the fact that I did not check out the product or services more thoroughly before jumping in, then I blame myself and not the company. I may not like the company after that, but ultimately it would be more my fault than theirs.

[awe4one]

 

Jim