Follow up response from Steve Borock

[sborock]

First let me say that I know this has taken longer than most of you had wanted, but, truth be told, it takes time to make sure you have actual facts before making a public statement. Premature statements and accusations hurt everybody and help no one. That said, I will now go into as much detail as I can about what has happened in the last two months, many questions and concerns that have been brought up on the boards lately, what is being done about it as them and the changes CGC will be implanting in the up coming weeks and months.

 

Let’s deal with the Ewert situation first.

 

The first time the comics found to have been trimmed sold and/or consigned by Jason Ewert by board members, we did the best we could to control the situation by talking to all parties involved, trying to get the comic books back, and learning about that specfic kind of trim so that we would be able to detect it better in the future. There was no clear evidence that Jason did the trimming and because he had been a long standing member of our hobby, he was told not to do any more business with “shady” people so that he could cut down his chances of getting trimmed books. I had also heard from Marc Schrueder, who said he did not trim the books or sell books to Jason. The problem with that is that Marc has had a bad history with CGC and because he lied to us in the past and has been banned from CGC (I asked him to leave the hobby and, as far as I know, he did), how could we believe him now. In hindsight, we should have asked Jason for more proof, but when you are dealing with someone you have had a very good business relationship for years and never had problems with them before, you tend to believe them. I have personally known Jason for about 16 years and really wanted to believe him. This is a guy I have had many meals with, for the last two years I considered a friend, and he was also friends with many of my friends.

 

The minute I read on the boards that the next book (Strange Tales) was found to have been trimmed on that Saturday morning. I got on the phone to Jason and asked him what was going on. Jason told me he did not trim the book. He said that he got it from someone else and also did not buy it from Heritage. I told him I did not care. I told him if that’s true, to bad, it’s the boy who cried wolf, now the wolf is here and nobody will believe him anyway. I told him to get out of the hobby and do not look back. I told him that if I find out he has ever sold another book from that day on, I would do everything in my power, as president of CGC as well as a hobbyist, to make sure he regrets it for the rest of his life. Jason said he would leave the hobby.

 

Jason is now gone for good. If he returns CGC will contemplate taking legal action, though we are contemplating taking it now anyway.

 

I have stated this before: CGC will look at any comic book that was bought from Jason in the last year even though I do not believe that the problem started more than seven months ago and the problem is not as widespread as many here believe. I truly believe that the boards are being fueled by paranoia, so the amount of books people are worried about that are in blue labels are much less then people believe. Tom Brulato, who has backed Jason as well as other comic book sellers, has already stated he would buy back any book CGC has found to be trimmed as long as it was a book he co-owned with Jason. He also stated that if he did not co-own the book with Jason, he would try to help that person get their money back from Jason.

 

If Tom cannot get the money back from Jason, CGC will buy the book back at what the person paid for it or its fair market value, whichever we choose.

 

As to the certification numbers; we do not release confidential information without a subpoena. That is company policy and the bottom line.

 

As to CGC’s restoration detection ability; I know that we are the best team in the hobby, bar none. This is not a statement I make lightly but, it is a fact that I am very proud of. We probably have found more hard to detect restoration on books in the last 5 years then the people and experts in our hobby have found in the last thirty years. How many of you have bought comics before CGC opened that you believed to be unrestored, that came back from us in a purple restored label? Some of you remember what it was like before CGC and the internet. Honest collectors and dealers alike were unknowingly buying and selling restored books. Dishonest collectors and dealers were making money hand over fist. Undeclared restored books were being bought even from Sotheby’s and Christie’s auction house. Just ask Jerry Weist how many books now come back from CGC restored that were “inspected” and given a “clean bill of health” before the auctions. We are not perfect, we are human, and once in awhile something is going to get past us. Even with that, we are the best and safest insurance policy this hobby has ever seen. The graders are a group of hobbyists working very hard to make our hobby better for the reader, collector, seller, and investor. The trimming that was missed was near impossible to tell without a scan and as I have said before, if it was done seven years ago, no one would ever have caught it.

 

No matter how good we get, someone will always try new ways to get things past us, that’s what dishonest people do. But like a friend told me, “When you build your first mouse trap, someone is going to try and eventually figure out how to get past that trap, so you need to build a better trap.” That is what we are going to do. With the help of some people we know, it looks as if we are going to have a special scanning process that will allow us to match up comics to a scan within seconds. This will be costly and hurt our re-submissions, but it will protect the buyer and seller and help CGC “build a better mousetrap”.

 

Speaking of restoration and the people who work at CGC, and I want to make this very clear, we are part of and from the hobby as well as some fellow board members. People such as Mark Haspel, Paul Litch, John Slater, Jerry Stephan, Michael McFadden, West Stephen (Timely), Scott Talmadge, Josh Hanin (Newtsamson), and now Bradley Bradley (BradleyX2). When great people from our hobby get to CGC they do not change and all of a sudden become part of the “darkside”. We come to work every day and do the best job we can because we love this hobby and we would expect the same of the people here if we were not CGC employees and just submitters. I have always treated every book that comes in here as if it were my own and I know that the other graders do the same. We do not give out “better” grades to friends or larger submitters, nor do we ignore any restoration found when submitted by them either. Many of you have told me that you have gotten better grades than you have expected at times, it is only because we felt, in our opinion, it was deserving of that grade.

 

This also leads to the Jim Halperin issue that keeps coming up. Jim has no say whatsoever about the day to day workings at CGC, or with the other businesses under the CCG umbrella. If Mark Haspel, Paul Litch, or I were ever told or asked to change a grade for anyone, not just Jim Halperin, we would decline immediately. Not only that, but we would quit if we were ever asked a second time. This is how the CCG operates and the reason the CCG hired us. Our reputations and love for this hobby are more important to us than money. Once again, we love our jobs and know that it protects the hobby, it’s why the three of us believe in CGC. Jim Halperin has NEVER called us up asking for a better grade. Jim has actually helped the hobby by keeping scans of the heritage auction books up. Also, for the record, we have never asked Jim to take the scans down.

 

As to turn times, some are saying that submissions are way down, this is not true. We now have 12 people in the grading room (Pre-graders and Finalizers) and 2 people doing QC, as opposed to the 8 people in the grading room and 1 QC person we were working with 8 months ago. Mark Haspel and I have handed the finalizing of all Moderns over to Paul Litch and Shawn Caffrey, so Mark and I now have more time to spend on Economy’s and the other vintage tiers.

 

I also want to talk about Chris Friesen and PCS. There have been many aspersions cast on these boards. Some about Chris trimming books. I will say this again; this is absolute nonsense. Period. Chris has always been and is still one of the most ethical people in our hobby. PCS is a separate entity from CGC. That said, just like we use other experts in our hobby to help us at times and I have always used the opinions and ideas of the experts at NGC for the first few years I was leaning about certification, we will also use Chris’s expertise for when we need to help protect the collecting community and better CGC. We may also contract Chris as a restoration detection expert if we do all tier on-site grading to make sure nothing gets past us during those long days of high volume. Some people will say that this is a conflict of interest. It is not. It can only be a conflict of interest if we abuse our relationship, which, as long as Chris is the head of PCS, and Mark Haspel and I run CGC, we will not. The only way to prove this is to show everyone this is not so by holding ourselves to the same high standards we always have. Time will always tell, we all know it will.

 

We are starting to put together a CGC advisory board and many forum members have asked to be on it. It will be made up of some forum members, some hobbyists from outside our boards, and a few dealers. This will help us continue to make policy as new things come up as well as having input from them during times like the Ewert situation. The forum members on the advisory board will also act as a liaison at times so the forum and the collecting community will be kept up to speed as to what is going on, while waiting for a situation to be resolved or while changes are being made to our certification process.

 

We are also in the midst of changing the way we label and rate restoration, conservation, and tape. We are very excited about these changes, we believe it will be better, not only for sellers and collectors, but these changes will also help to preserve the integrity of the comic books themselves. Packets will be going out to most major dealers and many collectors as well as forum members to solicit opinions before we set these new changes in stone.

 

People keep asking me when is it that we are going to close down this chatboard. I keep saying that I do not think it would be a good idea. The board has not only helped catch things like the trimmed books, but the board has helped do many, many good things for the hobby such as charity for many causes (and even some board members), got the word out about Dupcek and other ebay scammers, sharing information about comics whether it was grading, restoration, history, pedigree and other information to help learn more about our hobby. Most of us have made many friends and met honest people to trade, sell, and buy comic books with. The Forum dinners have become a highlight of the conventions for many of us (me included!) and the guests we have had (Bob & Carol Overstreet, Larmont Larson and family, Maggie Thompson, Michael Bair, Gary Colabuono, Michelle Nolan, Jim McLaughlin, Buzz, Tom Gordon, Rich Koslowski, J.C. Vaughn, among others) are really special. Just because there are many on here with shill id’s with there own anti-CGC agenda, I truly believe that the level headed people that truly love the hobby on our forum can pick them out and ignore them. But, because of this we might make it so that when you sign up, you need to use a real name that can be verified. It sounds silly that we would have to do this, but we want to keep the boards free from some of the nonsense that these people cause. Most people on here have no problem using their real name, if they have nothing to hide, why should they mind.

 

I hope I have answered many questions that people here have, though I am sure that some will not be happy with any answer or answers they get from us. The bottom line is that I have answered honestly and that is all I can do.

[Red Hook]

Steve,

 

Was a pre-screening service for pressing candidates ever offered to anyone over the last several years, and did Chris Freisen ever do pressing for customers while serving as CGC's restoration expert?

 

Brad

[Sal]

No matter how good we get, someone will always try new ways to get things past us, that’s what dishonest people do. But like a friend told me, “When you build your first mouse trap, someone is going to try and eventually figure out how to get past that trap, so you need to build a better trap.” That is what we are going to do. With the help of some people we know, it looks as if we are going to have a special scanning process that will allow us to match up comics to a scan within seconds. This will be costly and hurt our re-submissions, but it will protect the buyer and seller and help CGC “build a better mousetrap”.

 

eeeexxxceeelllent.

[chrisco37]

No matter how good we get, someone will always try new ways to get things past us, that’s what dishonest people do. But like a friend told me, “When you build your first mouse trap, someone is going to try and eventually figure out how to get past that trap, so you need to build a better trap.” That is what we are going to do. With the help of some people we know, it looks as if we are going to have a special scanning process that will allow us to match up comics to a scan within seconds. This will be costly and hurt our re-submissions, but it will protect the buyer and seller and help CGC “build a better mousetrap”.

 

eeeexxxceeelllent.

 

[Sal]

No matter how good we get, someone will always try new ways to get things past us, that’s what dishonest people do. But like a friend told me, “When you build your first mouse trap, someone is going to try and eventually figure out how to get past that trap, so you need to build a better trap.” That is what we are going to do. With the help of some people we know, it looks as if we are going to have a special scanning process that will allow us to match up comics to a scan within seconds. This will be costly and hurt our re-submissions, but it will protect the buyer and seller and help CGC “build a better mousetrap”.

 

eeeexxxceeelllent.

 

 

if we really wanted CGC to go broke - and cripple turnaround times - we would demand that CGC let us send in old slabs for reholdering and scanning. since, of course, old books that have been resubbed after clandestine resto wouldn't be in the scan database otherwise...

 

the thought of it makes me tingle

[Aman619]

nicely done, Steve, and whomever at CGC wrote the more legalesed sections. I felt good reading your letter. I wish for your sake it could eliminate ALL our doubts and fears, not only about CGC itself, but about the sharks in our hobby who seek to take advantage of you. But, honestly, try as you might, we now know that no system will ever be perfect.... which was, you have to admit, the marketing premise behind CGC all along.

 

So we can all go back into the water, wading at first of course, but I dont think we can ever look at CGC or the hobby the same way we have for the past 5 years. Youre born alone, you live alone, and you die alone. Watch your back. etc etc .

 

Good Night. And Good Luck.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

Steve,

 

Was a pre-screening service for pressing candidates ever offered to anyone over the last several years, and did Chris Freisen ever do pressing for customers while serving as CGC's restoration expert?

 

Brad

 

Don't hold your breath waiting for a reply.....

[Alex DeLarge-migration]

It's taken me a while to read & digest this very long & comprehensive response.

While it may be an on the surface honest appraisal and update of the situation, I feel it may still not satisfy everyone here...me included.

 

I feel, and I speak only for myself, that many of us will wait & see just how effective these measures & safeguards turn out to be.

 

Many people here also wish to see some form of justice, and not just financial recompense.

[UnDeadChihuahua-migration]

If Tom cannot get the money back from Jason, CGC will buy the book back at what the person paid for it or its fair market value, whichever we choose.

 

Suppose a customer paid $1000 for a book that is found to be trimmed, and the value in restored / trimmed condition is $100. Would CGC reimburse them $1000 or $100?

[sportcomics]

Well Steve have trust and I still will continue to get my books graded.

[skybolt]

No matter how good we get, someone will always try new ways to get things past us, that’s what dishonest people do. But like a friend told me, “When you build your first mouse trap, someone is going to try and eventually figure out how to get past that trap, so you need to build a better trap.” That is what we are going to do. With the help of some people we know, it looks as if we are going to have a special scanning process that will allow us to match up comics to a scan within seconds. This will be costly and hurt our re-submissions, but it will protect the buyer and seller and help CGC “build a better mousetrap”.

 

eeeexxxceeelllent.

 

 

if we really wanted CGC to go broke - and cripple turnaround times - we would demand that CGC let us send in old slabs for reholdering and scanning. since, of course, old books that have been resubbed after clandestine resto wouldn't be in the scan database otherwise...

 

the thought of it makes me tingle

 

Would CGC accept CD's with scanned books from our graded collections to include in their database?

[chrisco37]

nicely done, Steve, and whomever at CGC wrote the more legalesed sections. I felt good reading your letter. I wish for your sake it could eliminate ALL our doubts and fears, not only about CGC itself, but about the sharks in our hobby who seek to take advantage of you. But, honestly, try as you might, we now know that no system will ever be perfect.... which was, you have to admit, the marketing premise behind CGC all along.

 

So we can all go back into the water, wading at first of course, but I dont think we can ever look at CGC or the hobby the same way we have for the past 5 years. Youre born alone, you live alone, and you die alone. Watch your back. etc etc .

 

Good Night. And Good Luck.

 

Good post aman. Better said than what I would have come up with.

 

It was a decent response, and you could tell that Steve wrote some of this one himself unlike the last one which was the spin-doctors.

[ArAich]

Nice to hear from you Steve...

[goldust40]

Where's JBud? I want his appraisal. To be honest I felt there was a modicum of candour there, but there are still more questions than answers. It wasn't that different to the previous announcement in terms of overall content, although I'm glad Steve, rather than a committee, spoke up.

[mica]

8 minutes after the post is written, Red Hook asks a simple yet important question.

 

But there is no response. Do we type up this long posts then jump in the car and take the rest of the day off into the weekend?

[Alex DeLarge-migration]

Maybe 'His work is done...', and that's all we're gonna get!

 

If so, thats disappointing.

Surely a statement of such length provides some room for a 2 way discourse?

[drbanner]

Good stuff Steve, thanks!

 

One question - what's PCS? I can't seem to find anything about them anywhere on the web, or on the Certified Collectibles Group homepage...

[mica]

One question - what's PCS? I can't seem to find anything about them anywhere on the web, or on the Certified Collectibles Group homepage...

Please Continue Submitting

[nik]

[sfilosa]

Good Post.

 

I've always trusted the integrity of the CGC, and with the help of many board members, I believe the actual damage that JE did to the hobby has been mitigated.