Follow up response from Steve Borock

[BassGMan]

 

Steve;

 

Thanks for your response even though it still leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

 

One of the questions I have revolves around this so-called PCS company now headed by Chris. The entire collecting community has been kept completely in the dark about this company and this is the first time I even knew they had a name . What is the mission statement of this company, what kind of services does it provide for their customers, who are their customers, how many employees do they have, what are the qualifications of their employees, etc, etc???

 

If everything was above board with this new company, should we not have all of this information? In addition, should everybody not be entitled to benefit from their "positive" services, instead of a few selected unnamed BSD clients? Is this company only involved in restoration detection (very doubtful here), removing restoration (possible), or is it also invloved in taking some of the icon books in our hobby and unnaturally juicing them up just enough to squeeze some extra points out of them and have the work still remain undetected as it passes through the CGC graders (also very possible)?

 

If this company is providing a beneficial service to the collecting community, why is nobody admitting to using their services? Are the type of services provided by this company cause for us to avoid the books worked on by this company? Should the collecting community not have access to all information on a particular book in order to make a fully informed purchasing decision? Should the collecting community and Steve Borock (the hobbyist) be demanding that PCS and their customers "to get out of the hobby and do not look back"? Or do we have to wait for board members to out a particular book from this company before we realize this could probably be nothing more than just another Jason Ewert collector's nightmare in the making.

 

Bottom-line: Why all the secrecy and total lack of disclosure with anything to do with respect to this company? Nothing less than CCG's own conduct and total lack of information here has placed this new company squarely on the "darkside" and makes me wonder if PCS really stands for nothing more than Professional Comic Scams.

 

I'm just wondering if Borock is even authorized to talk about this company. He is the president of CGC but is not part of PCS. Maybe he has been advised NOT to say anything about this company by the president of PCS. It may be a sister company to CGC, but that does not mean Borock can speak in their behalf. I'd say if you want to find out about it, start bugging Friesen, NOT Borock.

[arexcrooke]

I'd say if you want to find out about it, start bugging Friesen, NOT Borock

Sid, the whole point is (and I think you would agree) is that we should NOT HAVE TO BUG ANYBODY about PCS.

[lou_fine]

 

Steve;

 

Thanks for your response even though it still leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

 

One of the questions I have revolves around this so-called PCS company now headed by Chris. The entire collecting community has been kept completely in the dark about this company and this is the first time I even knew they had a name . What is the mission statement of this company, what kind of services does it provide for their customers, who are their customers, how many employees do they have, what are the qualifications of their employees, etc, etc???

 

If everything was above board with this new company, should we not have all of this information? In addition, should everybody not be entitled to benefit from their "positive" services, instead of a few selected unnamed BSD clients? Is this company only involved in restoration detection (very doubtful here), removing restoration (possible), or is it also invloved in taking some of the icon books in our hobby and unnaturally juicing them up just enough to squeeze some extra points out of them and have the work still remain undetected as it passes through the CGC graders (also very possible)?

 

If this company is providing a beneficial service to the collecting community, why is nobody admitting to using their services? Are the type of services provided by this company cause for us to avoid the books worked on by this company? Should the collecting community not have access to all information on a particular book in order to make a fully informed purchasing decision? Should the collecting community and Steve Borock (the hobbyist) be demanding that PCS and their customers "to get out of the hobby and do not look back"? Or do we have to wait for board members to out a particular book from this company before we realize this could probably be nothing more than just another Jason Ewert collector's nightmare in the making.

 

Bottom-line: Why all the secrecy and total lack of disclosure with anything to do with respect to this company? Nothing less than CCG's own conduct and total lack of information here has placed this new company squarely on the "darkside" and makes me wonder if PCS really stands for nothing more than Professional Comic Scams.

 

I'm just wondering if Borock is even authorized to talk about this company. He is the president of CGC but is not part of PCS. Maybe he has been advised NOT to say anything about this company by the president of PCS. It may be a sister company to CGC, but that does not mean Borock can speak in their behalf. I'd say if you want to find out about it, start bugging Friesen, NOT Borock.

 

BGM;

 

I would normally agree with you here, except that Steve seems to pull Chris and this new company out of his hat whenever it seems to suit his purposes.

 

In addition, since we are not privy to their services, how can we really bug Chris to speak up on this topic. I don't believe they have a public website or chat board that we can log onto. Or do you realistically expect their current top secret customers to question their business activities?

 

You should also note that in my last statment, I was referring more to CGC's parent company's (CCG) conduct and approach to everything to do with this new company. If their services are above board and kocher, why is there a need for them to operate only in the shadows?

[arexcrooke]

In addition, since we are not privy to their services, how can we really bug Chris to speak up on this topic. I don't believe they have a public website or chat board that we can log onto. Or do you realistically expect their current top secret customers to question their business activities?

Lou, i just checked and there is no mention of PCS on either CGC's site (no surprise) or CCG's site. , thats a little odd dontcha think Not really considering the lack of disclosure that plagues both CGC and now PCS. And Steve wonders why people "cast aspersions" about the credibility and trustworthyness of CGC.

[burntboy]

Fair question. In my case, there are three reasons:

 

1. I, like many of the serious collectors that I know, have an influential position (lawyer, doctor, manager, professor, ...). While some people prefer to be open about their hobby (more power to them!), many of us find that it simplifies things professionally to remain anonymous. In some circles, buying valuable comics would be perceived as a weakness that your enemies would try to explore to their advantage.

 

2. I've found that keeping a low profile opens the door to doing business with people from category 1. I've landed some of my best deals because my contacts know I can be trusted and can keep my mouth shut.

 

3. To protect my collection against theft.

 

Thanks for the reasonable answer, it makes sense. It is unfortunate though to have a penchant for valuable and rare comic books be used as a weakness against you. I guess if you were running for political office, or some important office in a large company your competitors may try to use it against you. But spending large amounts of money on comics doesn't quite look as bad as being arrested for drunken driving or being caught "inhaling". It is also unfortunate that some outside this hobby still look at us as some kind of group of misfits, but I realize that attitude still does exist sometimes. Either way, if being "exposed" means possible embarassment among your peers, I can understand wanting to remain anonymous.

 

interesting thoughts here.............

 

i was having an early dinner last night with a bunch of members of a college fund-raising group. there were more than a few current or ex CEO's there. i was singularly surprised and pleased to see how many folks seemed genuinely interested in my Hobby. so i don't necessarily agree that there is an automatic negative/condescending reaction to the hobby..............

 

i do understand and respect members desire for privacy, however. i would be perfectly fine with an internal sign-in which required one's verifiable real name.

 

as for the Steve note - more to follow................

[Aman619]

Id like to say, now, 24 hours later, and after reading other replies to the Borock: Pt Two response, that I no longer as satisfied as I did initially. I replied more out of a "what did we expect" mode, that while realistic and a good approach generally in life, falls short of what CAN and should be done in this situation. I like Steve and sense he is limited in what he can say and do. (OBVIOUSLY really) But that should NOT be cause enough for us to lay down. Serious issues have been pointed out that remain unanswered... and I now cannot any longer escape the feeling that CGC CCG and all their various acronymed entities are playing us for their own gain. Again DUH, but they are doing it willfully, gleefully, with impunity and condescendingly.

[BassGMan]

 

In addition, since we are not privy to their services, how can we really bug Chris to speak up on this topic. I don't believe they have a public website or chat board that we can log onto. Or do you realistically expect their current top secret customers to question their business activities?

 

You should also note that in my last statment, I was referring more to CGC's parent company's (CCG) conduct and approach to everything to do with this new company. If their services are above board and kocher, why is there a need for them to operate only in the shadows?

 

Does anybody here know Chris Friesen personally? Someone must as he has been well known in the hobby for many years. Or does anybody here know anybody else who is good friends with Chris? Let's just go right to the source. Even if Borock was to make a statement, it is doubtful that it would include all the answers to all the questions about this new company. Somebody just call Chris personally, go to the source. And then ask if you can relay the information found to us here. I mean seriously, does Chris live in the shadows? Why can't someone just call the guy?

[burntboy]

I had also heard from Marc Schrueder, who said he did not trim the books or sell books to Jason. The problem with that is that Marc has had a bad history with CGC and because he lied to us in the past and has been banned from CGC (I asked him to leave the hobby and, as far as I know, he did), how could we believe him now.

 

So then he is the one that trimmed the Batman 11 eh?

 

a logical potential conclusion, but as FFB said - not the case.............

 

Still, kinda odd that Jason picked the only person ever banned from CGC as the alleged seller of the FF#3. could he have known the Schrueder/CGC deal and simply gone for the one person that CGC might believe to be the culprit???

 

do we know why Schrueder was banned???

 

after reading FFB's last post, i'm now confused as there does appear to have been 3 prior folks banned before Jason. yet, i'm pretty sure steve alluded to a singular banning before Jason???

[Mephisto]

I had also heard from Marc Schrueder, who said he did not trim the books or sell books to Jason. The problem with that is that Marc has had a bad history with CGC and because he lied to us in the past and has been banned from CGC (I asked him to leave the hobby and, as far as I know, he did), how could we believe him now.

 

So then he is the one that trimmed the Batman 11 eh?

 

Not unless he lives in England he isn't. The Batman #11 trimmer wasn't banned AFAIK.

 

I'm pretty sure Steve posted that the submitter of the Bats 11 was banned from submitting to CGC.

 

If he did, that would mean that four people have been banned from submitting instead of the "two" people (Jason E. and that "notorious" dealer) that Steve has said had been banned.

 

That's why I assumed it was him. I was pretty sure I recalled that Borock said the person who submitted the bats 11 was banned but he wouldn't name names at the time. I haven't had much luck bringing it up in the search engine. In the other response thread Borock said Ewert is only the 2nd person to be banned. Then in this thread he said Marc Schrueder was baned and that's why I assumed he did Batman 11. Is this more smoke and mirrors?

[Silver Surfer]

Bottom-line: Why all the secrecy and total lack of disclosure with anything to do with respect to this company? Nothing less than CCG's own conduct and total lack of information here has placed this new company squarely on the "darkside" and makes me wonder if PCS really stands for nothing more than Professional Comic Scams.

 

Because its exclusive for the same BSD circle that Ewart and other were privy to and they continue to manipulate the market and the hobby. We little people question certain things and some arrogant insufficiently_thoughtful_person comes on here and labels us as "jerk off board members". If Friesen and PCS had nothing to hide or be ashamed of you would have thought that at the very a brief marketing launch annoucing that his doors are now open for business (for everyone) would have been made. But what happens, he gets Steve to causally mention what is happening and then hegoes on about what a stand up guy Friesen is yet he continues to operate this new venture (I'm only guessing since this is so hush hush) under the cloak or secrecy. I thought Frisen was going to make an annoucement to a select group of clients and I would have hoped that one of those clients would share the cruk of that annoucement with us yet no one has stepped up to the plate. Again I always ask myself "why". I don't see anything wrong with that unless Friesen is trying to avoid the heat.

 

Bottom line is that CGC and Steve cannot afford to have anything "irregular" associated with Friesen while he was employeed by them so we will continue to be reminded of what a great guy he is and how he never trimmed a book. How can Steve make such statements when a year ago he echoed those comments about Ewart? Can Steve also confirm that Frisen has never done and work outside of the official CGC umbrella? Somehow I doubt it. And what the heck was the first "official" statement about? It was laced with one inaccurate, misleading statement after another.

 

Sorry I don't buy it and won't until CGC starts to address the questions raised in this and several other threads.

[Rip]

Here's your Bats 11 thread. but I can't find the other one yet either. I thought he said the trimmer was banned also

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/sho...part=1&vc=1

[Red Hook]

I don't even know what PCS stands for!

[Rip]

Pressing Comics Society

[Darthdiesel]

Paper Conservation Services

[VintageComics]

This forum bounces from one witch hunt to the next. I know I'm gonna take some flack for this, but so what if a guy opens business and then personally chooses his clients. He has no need to invite any one of us OR disclose who the clients are, just like any other entrepreneur. If i was in his shoes at this point in time i too would be very careful as to what is said and to whom. I can even understand now why Josh (comiclink) would keep his sales info privy...too many ways to make someone look bad. Not defending anyone here except the principle of working for your self. If it is your business, you can run it the way you see fit. I can't stand the way my employer runs his business but i still do what i am paid for to the best of MY ability. People may change, but there are several very credible referrences to Friesen benefit (comicwhiz, Borock...etc.) and NONE to the negative that i have read...so what is the big deal....that some of you are not involved in the "inner circle"?

[QuasarComics]

I have to agree with the points made here. If a book has anything done to it and you know about it, you are ethically and morally responsible for disclosing that fact. There is NO HONORABLE REASON for NOT disclosing what you know about a comic.

 

Use pressing, cleaning, restoration services all you want. BUT, to not disclose that fact is not right. The market should decide. A true "free" market is one in which FULL DISCLOSURE of information occurs. A free market is one in which the "moral agents" (such as, potentially, CGC), the board members here, etc. create an environment of positive pressure for disclosure.

 

Human nature has both its dark side and good side and all of us, me included, must always be conscious and aware of our actions and strive for perfection. We will never achieve perfection and we all, at one time or another, will do things we are not proud of, things that may even be unethical. But, if the overall environment is one pushing for all to do the right thing, then the right thing will be done more often than not and those who have more than very infrequently and relatively minor moral failings will be driven from the market.

 

What we see here in our hobby is merely a reflection of society as a whole. We should strive for these ideals in all aspects of our lives and we will make a difference in our part of the world. It may be small but a lot of small things done by all the people such as you and me can add up to a big positive difference!

 

 

Whew, glad I got that off my chest!!

[Alex DeLarge-migration]

The principle of what you are saying here is correct.

Personally I'd settle for the matter being addressed,dealt with,and measures put into place so it never happens again.

The whys & wherefores,who did what,who colluded with whom are'nt really as important as a correct outcome.

Full disclosure very rarely happens in any sort of scandal, and it won't here.

As long as the problem is eradicated, and the victims get some sort of financial restitution is the important thing.

Its pointless whinging on about every little nuance and detail.

We need to move forward,upwards and onto better things, and concentrate on all thats good in the hobby.

[QuasarComics]

One more point:

 

This type of controversy is by not means limited to comics. At least one of the major coin grading services "curates" coins (unless they have stopped recently and this may not be true on a legal technicality since it may be a separate legal entity that does the "curating") and does not note this fact on the coin slab. This is controversial to many coin collectors for good reason: "Curating" is nothing more than professional and expert cleaning. Period. Of course, the curators beg to disagree.

 

The bottom line: DISCLOSURE, DISCLOSURE, DISCLOSURE will prevent any of these controversies.

 

Here's hoping for a new found candidness on disclosure by all of the professional grading services.

[Silver Surfer]

This forum bounces from one witch hunt to the next. I know I'm gonna take some flack for this, but so what if a guy opens business and then personally chooses his clients. He has no need to invite any one of us OR disclose who the clients are, just like any other entrepreneur. If i was in his shoes at this point in time i too would be very careful as to what is said and to whom. I can even understand now why Josh (comiclink) would keep his sales info privy...too many ways to make someone look bad. Not defending anyone here except the principle of working for your self. If it is your business, you can run it the way you see fit. I can't stand the way my employer runs his business but i still do what i am paid for to the best of MY ability. People may change, but there are several very credible referrences to Friesen benefit (comicwhiz, Borock...etc.) and NONE to the negative that i have read...so what is the big deal....that some of you are not involved in the "inner circle"?

 

Simple, because there is too much stuff going on in this industry that makes me question these kinds of things. Shoddy pedigree verfication process, missed restoration, inconsistent grading, ownership that has had legal issues in the past, double talk when tough questions are asked, CGC has almost no written standards to back up the service that they are providing and perceived preferential treatment for those in the "inner circle". Maybe there wouldn't be so many "witch hunts" if they addressed these issues instead of down playing and pretending that they didn't exist.

[Forbush-Man]

CGC has almost no written standards to back up the service that they are providing .....

 

This is something they could fix easily & yet they choose not to.

 

Of course, there already were a set of standards they could've adopted: Overstreet Grading Standards.