Follow up response from Steve Borock

[DarrenSmith]

I have stated this before: CGC will look at any comic book that was bought from Jason in the last year even though I do not believe that the problem started more than seven months ago and the problem is not as widespread as many here believe. I truly believe that the boards are being fueled by paranoia, so the amount of books people are worried about that are in blue labels are much less then people believe.

 

I'm a little puzzled as to how Steve would know how many restored/trimmed books exist in blue labels, if the majority of people haven't resubmitted their Ewert books for inspection yet. I along with a lot of other people will become less paranoid when a majority of these books have been inspected and cleared. Making an overall assumption based on Ewert's last submission, which may comprise of only 5% of the total VIA submissions within the past year, may be wishful thinking.

 

So without a list of certification serial numbers how is someone suposed to identify if they have any books in their collection to send in for inspection?

[awe4one]

Nice balanced response Steve. But it really doesn't answer some critical questions that demand a resolution if you expect the "hysteria" out there to abate...

 

- How many Ewert books have you discovered to date were trimmed? A firm number. Can't say the impact is far less than imagined and not have some proof to back it up. Your definition of "far less" may be greatly skewed from the majority of collectors...

 

- As Red already brought up...when did Chris start pressing or providing other resto services for clients? You completely ignored this question...

 

- How are you coming up with the 6-9 month timeframe for Ewert's trimmed comics? This is a simple question that needs clarity. What makes you confident with this time period?

 

- I may have missed this...but where exactly is your agreement that cerification numbers are confidential?

 

Again...in spite of waiting for a Friday to speak, which is becoming the standard for you, the statement seems to be a step in the right direction. But it's baby steps compared to what needs to be revealed if you expect any confidence in CGC to be restored.

 

Jim

[THE_BEYONDER]

Restoring confidence......

[The Black Hand ®]

It's all going to be swept under the rug. This is part of a stalling tactic and not a real dialogue. There will be another "Statement" in a few weeks and rhen another in a few months and then........... nothing!

[deathlok]

I had also heard from Marc Schrueder, who said he did not trim the books or sell books to Jason. The problem with that is that Marc has had a bad history with CGC and because he lied to us in the past and has been banned from CGC (I asked him to leave the hobby and, as far as I know, he did), how could we believe him now.

 

So then he is the one that trimmed the Batman 11 eh?

 

Not unless he lives in England he isn't. The Batman #11 trimmer wasn't banned AFAIK.

 

I'm pretty sure Steve posted that the submitter of the Bats 11 was banned from submitting to CGC.

[divad]

Nice balanced response Steve. But it really doesn't answer some critical questions that demand a resolution if you expect the "hysteria" out there to abate...

 

- How many Ewert books have you discovered to date were trimmed? A firm number. Can't say the impact is far less than imagined and not have some proof to back it up. Your definition of "far less" may be greatly skewed from the majority of collectors...

 

- As Red already brought up...when did Chris start pressing or providing other resto services for clients? You completely ignored this question...

 

- How are you coming up with the 6-9 month timeframe for Ewert's trimmed comics? This is a simple question that needs clarity. What makes you confident with this time period?

 

- I may have missed this...but where exactly is your agreement that cerification numbers are confidential?

 

Again...in spite of waiting for a Friday to speak, which is becoming the standard for you, the statement seems to be a step in the right direction. But it's baby steps compared to what needs to be revealed if you expect any confidence in CGC to be restored.

 

Jim

 

I agree, I think these are all valid questions which merit a direct response. I appreciate Steve's candor and honesty, but without otherwise qualifying his response, I think we deserve a few more facts

[divad]

Brad,

 

Quite deserving of a

 

Okay, I waited over two hours, so I'll expand on this. I wrote this before I read ComicWiz's very wise post. I'll go ahead and post this as written.....

 

The crux of Steve messages to us all along have been about wanting us to maintain our trust in him and his team. And to retain our faith in CGC's stated mission.

 

This is a tough request to fulfill for me personally when there has been basically a two-caste system in operation at CGC for a while. There are services made available to the average collector, like most of us here on the boards, and another that has been made available only to dealers, large submitters and associates. There have been, in essence...two CGCs.

 

This may have made good business sense at one time, especially during the start up years, when it was important to entice big clients into the fold. But I think those days are over, and those practices, if they continue (and NOBODY believes Freisen is going to be operating anything other than a formalized extension of the services he was doing inhouse.....) can only grind down the trust that I and a lot of others WANT to keep in CGC.

 

If Steve came on the boards and said, "Yes, you're right. We have offered a pre-screening service for special clients (like Jason) to identify candidates for pressing, and Chris Freisen did some or all of the pressing in-house", then everyone here would throw up a couple of times and we would move on. Now would be a good time to deal with this because we've already taken a couple of shots to the body and we don't want this other krap dragged out in three months for a nice double dip of nastiness.

 

At this point, I have no choice but to interpret the silence on the matter as confirmation of the many sources of this information I and others have received. I would really recommend that CGC address this so we can all move on. No spin, no waltzing, just the truth. Hey, go ahead and offer a two-tier system of service, but make it public! Any person willing to pay an extra $10 per submission will have his or her book evaluated for pressing to potentially raise the grade. Damn it, make it public! That's better than this cloak and dagger baloney. Just do it and move on. CGC may not believe that pressing is not restoration, but they know that it WILL affect the price potential of the books if it becomes known. At least at this point in time. That's the Catch-22, here. They've got to offer the service covertly, because of the affect on $$$. You will never see a public list of the services Chris Freisen is offering. Not going to happen unless he and CGC realize it's the only way to go.

 

As for the rest of Steve's latest statement, I have these concerns......

 

- I still get the feeling that Steve is trying to downplay the damage Jason inflicted. I'm not happy that it took the Strange Tales 128 to open Steve's eyes. STEVE! You gotta put your trust in the right people! You're too trusting! I would prefer it if the President of CGC were known as a merciless SOB, the Ayatollah of Restoration Detection! I think you owe it to your smaller customers to separate business and friendships. Sound toughs but I think it's necessary.

 

The numbers being bandied about have been that 30% of the books submitted by Ewert were found to have been trimmed. That's huge. 20% would be huge. So would 10%. Apparently Jason has denied everything, and has supplied no information or help whatsoever with the investigation. So supposing a time frame of one year backwards for his trimming seems arbitrary. Without further elucidation that is. I would love to know why CGC has reached that conclusion.

 

- I still feel the refusal by CGC to release certification numbers, in this very particular case, contradicts the assurances we've received that CGC is protecting our interests. It's clear that for whatever reason, Jason is effectively being protected by CGC's decision. Here's an idea. How about setting an example that anyone that takes it upon themself to screw CGC and it's customers, LOSES that right of privacy. Something to think about eh? Maybe that would give someone like Tom Brulato a moment to pause and really think about who he is about to go into business with. Maybe someone would ask tougher questions of the person they were associating with.

 

- I suspect that Steve may feel I am just hammering on him, but believe it or not it's not personal. I wouldn't let it get personal. If I let it get personal, then I would ease up, and not ask tough questions. I don't relish putting Steve on the spot. Believe it. I like all the CGC folks I've met and I respect their crazy skilz and dedication. But they're continuing to leave themselves wide open to second guessing. Banish Ewert? Come on....he'll find a way and you know it! He's one wiley cat. I say litigate. And make an example out of him. What happens to all the dough he's been pocketing for years? Where's the restitution?

 

I have not asked to be part of the proposed CGC Oversight Board. I'd like to maintain my impartiality. There's a need for that. And until I get an answer to my question about the inhouse services offered, I can't totally believe in anything else I'm told. Hopefully, besides pointing out some remaining problems, I've offered some ways out. Gutsy ways out. I hope Steve, Chris, CGC & Mr. Halperin consider them.

 

Red Hook

[UnDeadChihuahua-migration]

If Tom cannot get the money back from Jason, CGC will buy the book back at what the person paid for it or its fair market value, whichever we choose.

 

Suppose a customer paid $1000 for a book that is found to be trimmed, and the value in restored / trimmed condition is $100. Would CGC reimburse them $1000 or $100?

 

So, was that a dumb question?

[FFB]

I had also heard from Marc Schrueder, who said he did not trim the books or sell books to Jason. The problem with that is that Marc has had a bad history with CGC and because he lied to us in the past and has been banned from CGC (I asked him to leave the hobby and, as far as I know, he did), how could we believe him now.

 

So then he is the one that trimmed the Batman 11 eh?

 

Not unless he lives in England he isn't. The Batman #11 trimmer wasn't banned AFAIK.

 

I'm pretty sure Steve posted that the submitter of the Bats 11 was banned from submitting to CGC.

 

If he did, that would mean that four people have been banned from submitting instead of the "two" people (Jason E. and that "notorious" dealer) that Steve has said had been banned.

[shadroch]

Steve,

While I appreciate your response,what I think is really needed is a discussion.

Perhaps you could set aside an hour or two for a real discussion. Perhaps even have it on The Comic Zone.Just you and Vince and some callers.

While I don't see anywhere where you are obligated to keep our submissions confidential,the fact that you seem willing to hand them over in the course of legal proceedings makes that moot,I guess.

As Jim said,its a step in the right direction,even if it is a baby step.As the chairman said,every journey starts with a single step.

I look forward to proof that the number of books affected by miscolored slabs isn't as high as I think.In this particular case,I would love to be proven wrong.

Now,please clear up the Freisen situation.

Either the rumors are true and need to be explained or they are false and need to be denied.Yesterday!

[trevorlsmith]

Either the rumors are true and need to be explained or they are false and need to be denied.Yesterday!

 

[Silver Surfer]

Well I don't know what more I could add that Hook hasn't touched on already. Another very disappointing response. Why should I trust Friesen, Halpern, etc because they are nice guys? Why hasn't Steve responded to any of the concerns raised here yet?

 

I have been on the fence as far as adding my name to the list of people seeking legal action on this issue but this latest attempt to sweep this under the rug is very annoying. If its going to take legal action to get any answers here then maybe its time I added my name to the list.

[slab_em-migration]

There was no mention of public notification via CBG or Wizard.

 

Brent Frankenhoff, Managing Editor of Comic's Buyers Guide, was asked what CBG's coverage of this topic would be (independent of a press release from CGC). He said:

 

"This is a story that will take quite a bit of investigation (and with potential legal issues, several parties will no doubt be unable to comment), so don't expect to see much in our pages for at least an issue or two.

 

We have certainly never buried a story to please an advertiser and never will. As we have stated many times before, ads and editorial are completely separate departments here."

[Red Hook]

I'd be happy to write a detailed outline for his dang article right now. Can someone pm me his phone number or e-mail? Thanks.

 

Brad

[nik]

I have been on the fence

 

Yeah me to, I think its time to get off cause my balls are turning blue

[jokersrevenge]

What will be done with these books that are bought back? resold as PLOD's by cgc? That would be a conflict of interest....Hung on the office walls as a reminder?DESTROYED? many were HCGC....

[Davenport]

There was no mention of public notification via CBG or Wizard.

 

Brent Frankenhoff, Managing Editor of Comic's Buyers Guide, was asked what CBG's coverage of this topic would be (independent of a press release from CGC). He said:

 

"This is a story that will take quite a bit of investigation (and with potential legal issues, several parties will no doubt be unable to comment), so don't expect to see much in our pages for at least an issue or two.

 

We have certainly never buried a story to please an advertiser and never will. As we have stated many times before, ads and editorial are completely separate departments here."

The SCOOP e-zine seems to post just about every official CGC statement made. Maybe they would put up the two made over the Ewert situation, if they knew about them. SCOOP

 

" Scoop is a totally free e-newsletter, produced only for the benefit of the friends who share our hobby! "

[lou_fine]

Great post Red Hook,

 

So let's put this whole scenario in perspective (if it's true). Someone like Jason sends in a batch of books to be graded. 10 out of the 20 books submitted are potential pressing candidates. They are sent to Chris F. for additional pressing to enhance the grade. Books are then returned to CGC 2 weeks later and graded at separate times from the rest of the batch.

 

The problem I have with this scenario is that CGC's official expert restoration checker has these trimmed books in hand while pressing them. Therefore, if he missed the trimming like everyone else, then the 6 to 9 month gap would not correspond to him leaving. Plus, would the other resto checkers have become more lacks in checking these books, since CGC's expert resto detector had already handled them? So many questions.

 

Skybolt;

 

If this scenario is true, I am absolutely NOT surprised that Chris would have missed the trimming on the books. Chris is being contracted in this case to perform additional pressing and/or other undetectable restoration activities on a book in order to upgrade a book. He is not being contracted to perform restoration detection on the book.

 

I believe that Chris may spot some of the more obvious restoration work on a book simply by handling them. When it comes to trimming or minor shaving, however, I think this is much much more tougher and he would have to be specifically looking for it, and something which he was not contracted to perform in this case.

 

Even if he does spot some restoration work, I am not sure if Chris would be passing this information onto CGC. After all, in this particular scenario of yours, is Chris not being contracted to perform undetectable restoration activities on the book as opposed to detecting it.

[lou_fine]

When great people from our hobby get to CGC they do not change and all of a sudden become part of the “darkside”.

 

I also want to talk about Chris Friesen and PCS. There have been many aspersions cast on these boards. Some about Chris trimming books. I will say this again; this is absolute nonsense. Period. Chris has always been and is still one of the most ethical people in our hobby. PCS is a separate entity from CGC. That said, just like we use other experts in our hobby to help us at times and I have always used the opinions and ideas of the experts at NGC for the first few years I was leaning about certification, we will also use Chris’s expertise for when we need to help protect the collecting community and better CGC. We may also contract Chris as a restoration detection expert if we do all tier on-site grading to make sure nothing gets past us during those long days of high volume. Some people will say that this is a conflict of interest. It is not. It can only be a conflict of interest if we abuse our relationship, which, as long as Chris is the head of PCS, and Mark Haspel and I run CGC, we will not. The only way to prove this is to show everyone this is not so by holding ourselves to the same high standards we always have. Time will always tell, we all know it will.

 

Steve;

 

Thanks for your response even though it still leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

 

One of the questions I have revolves around this so-called PCS company now headed by Chris. The entire collecting community has been kept completely in the dark about this company and this is the first time I even knew they had a name . What is the mission statement of this company, what kind of services does it provide for their customers, who are their customers, how many employees do they have, what are the qualifications of their employees, etc, etc???

 

If everything was above board with this new company, should we not have all of this information? In addition, should everybody not be entitled to benefit from their "positive" services, instead of a few selected unnamed BSD clients? Is this company only involved in restoration detection (very doubtful here), removing restoration (possible), or is it also invloved in taking some of the icon books in our hobby and unnaturally juicing them up just enough to squeeze some extra points out of them and have the work still remain undetected as it passes through the CGC graders (also very possible)?

 

If this company is providing a beneficial service to the collecting community, why is nobody admitting to using their services? Are the type of services provided by this company cause for us to avoid the books worked on by this company? Should the collecting community not have access to all information on a particular book in order to make a fully informed purchasing decision? Should the collecting community and Steve Borock (the hobbyist) be demanding that PCS and their customers "to get out of the hobby and do not look back"? Or do we have to wait for board members to out a particular book from this company before we realize this could probably be nothing more than just another Jason Ewert collector's nightmare in the making.

 

Bottom-line: Why all the secrecy and total lack of disclosure with anything to do with respect to this company? Nothing less than CCG's own conduct and total lack of information here has placed this new company squarely on the "darkside" and makes me wonder if PCS really stands for nothing more than Professional Comic Scams.

[Forbush-Man]

It's all going to be swept under the rug. This is part of a stalling tactic and not a real dialogue. There will be another "Statement" in a few weeks and rhen another in a few months and then........... nothing!

 

I am inclined to agree. This pattern of "post & run" on Fridays is extremely bothersome.

 

Steve, you could be doing so much better than this! It undermines your own statements about "Love for this Hobby" when you post & run. Just MHO.