Grader Notes

[blazingbob]

I doubt it.

[Mark 1]

Crack it out and sell it raw on Harley Yee's wall - Only kidding.

 

I generally prescreen everything I send in so I'm already prepared for possible rejects.

 

 

 

 

Okay thanks.

 

 

[comicwiz]

If you want a seller to pick up the cost of grading notes than I hope you are not expecting a big discount. And I hope you are upfront in telling the seller this when you are negotiating the purchase.

 

It's not my fault CGC is charging for this service.

 

The graders notes would be the very first thing I ask about after a polite greeting. I know you're a great guy Bob, but short of going full-stop on supporting guys like you and the hobby, this approach is the only way to make sure CGC gets grilled over this. The average "joe" collector might help ignite the spark, but the high-volume dealers/sellers are the ones who will bring the flame throwers.

[blazingbob]

No offense but nobody has ever emailed me about grading notes except guys who upgrade.

 

Maybe this is all done before they start bidding but I guess I will be getting more email prior to this.

 

This opens a can of worms since who is going to stop me from calling up sellers and wasting their money if they do pay for this? How do I know the buyer is serious? And what if the guy doesn't buy the book based on the notes I've agreed to pay for?

 

Am I holding the book for them while we are awaiting notes?

 

Sorry but I don't see too many guys agreeing to pay for this.

[comicwiz]

I doubt it.

 

All that's left for Harley to do is grow out the beard like Nostradamus

[Jeffro.]

I doubt it.

 

All that's left for Harley to do is grow out the beard like Nostradamus

 

Flee can help us with that.

[fantastic_four]

They should start printing the grader notes on the slab and they could charge an additional $20 per slab to have the books graded. That way they're capitalizing on ALL the books instead of just the few that get questioned by the flippers.

 

They can't. They partially tried this from the start with more descriptive label comments, but they had to stop those once they realized that incomplete notes confused their customers. These notes are quite a bit more verbose than the old label descriptions, but they're still massively incomplete and therefore similarly as confusing.

[comicwiz]

Not disagreeing with any of the potential issues you raise, and this is exactly what I was alluding to in my previous posts.

 

CGC is no longer a selling tool because their slab can't standalone, and they admitted this much with the new pricing scheme for graders notes.

 

It's just a matter of everyone coming to the realization that CGC isn't the selling tool it was before this change and deciding whether you support a company that uses a grading opinion that's parted out and upsold for their sole benefit.

[Dark Prime 0]

i don't think this is right.......but has anyone actully called cgc to express how unhappy they are with this

 

i agree with wiz, the small guys aren't going to mean mess to cgc but dealers (the bigger the volume the better) will

 

for myself i may wait till philly and do it in person

 

heh if the points bob brings up come to pass, i can honestly see cgc looseing buiness bc people are wanting raw bc getting them cgc'd is just to expensive and to much of a hassle to sell (higher end where the notes are wanted)

[fantastic_four]

I'd like for someone to throw out another successful company that offers as many uncharged services to its customers as CGC does. Registry, boards, previous grader notes process, census...these things cost money. Smart companies charge for services like these.

 

Or smart companies create them specifically knowing the services will create indirect revenues--best example in the world is Google, who doesn't charge the general public for anything yet makes hundreds of billions from companies giving software away for free to the masses. The Registry inspires people to slab more books and buy more slabs...the boards create general goodwill for CGC as a company and have helped to cement them as an industry staple...and the Census encourages people to slab more books on issues with low counts.

[fantastic_four]

I'm not sure what the uproar is about.

 

CGC has been "toll collecting" for years now.

 

FMV walkthroughs were always a way to "share" in the owners windfall even though I've always questioned how a grading company knew what something would sell for. Always seemed like a conflict of interest.

 

CGC tried to share in the profitable pressing business because frankly there is more money made pressing than grading.

 

Since that one didn't fly they are trying another way to profit from pressing. Charge the upgraders for the notes that they need when they are on the fence trying to figure if a book is upgradeable. No overhead, pure profit, no more phone calls to the graders.

 

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree Bob.

 

It's not just pressers or crack, press, resub people calling for graders notes.

 

They had to be the catalyst for this change and why it became a problem for CGC...but certainly not all who called for graders notes.

 

I've called and it wasn't to see what upgrade potential a book has. I called to see if a book I am interested in buying had a detached centerfold, rusty staples, etc.

 

This change punishes the casual user.

 

 

+1

 

+2

[fantastic_four]

I was going to order for grader notes on 1 book just to see what they look like but was curious about security of credit card data. I signed in but when I came to the page to enter name, address, and credit card info I did not see https in the url like other websites that encrypt data. Should I be concerned or am I just being paranoid?

 

You should be concerned--I got hacked once by registering on a web site I bought a television from using the same username/password combo I use on lots of sites. The site didn't use SSL, and within an hour, someone else--I presume another user on Comcast's network since Comcast is my ISP--hacked two accounts I used that same username/password on (my email account and World of Warcraft account). Any data not sent via HTTPS you should assume is being shared with the world.

[Mxwll Smrt]

On the CGC site there's a disclaimer:

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/services/services-terms-and-conditions.asp

 

10. Company compiles data regarding, and makes digital images of, items submitted for Services. In partial consideration for the performance of Services by Company pursuant to this Submission Form, Customer hereby authorizes Company to compile such data and make such images and agrees that Company shall have an irrevocable, non-exclusive, perpetual, unlimited, royalty-free right and license to use and commercialize such data and images for any purpose.

 

IMO, the problem with their "legal" position is that a non-exclusive license can be revoked at any time through a writing and the use of the word irrevocable is contradictory to the nature and definition of "non-exclusive license" as covered in USC 17.

 

Secondly, this disclaimer flies in the face of state based contract law and more importantly, if there is or ever was an intent for commerce they have a problem with tort law - negligent misrepresentation, material concealment and fraud.

 

JMO.

[fantastic_four]

The decision for me was made long before this recent decision to charge a fee for graders notes.

 

That said, further to your point, I feel that it needs to go much further than boycotting their services.

 

It seems these boards are treated like their own private garden, where they can road test and gauge online temperatures and community response on poorly hatched plans or business changes.

 

I've held back numerous times from posting/responding to questions because I feel they need to start paying full freight for some of the insights and opinions being shared on these boards.

 

Businesses pay BIG fees for thinktank consulting. CGC's an all-grown-up-business now and needs to start doing the same.

 

No more free rides.

 

And if anyone here helps them with research on rarer stuff like I have in the past, make sure to start charging nosebleed toll rates.

 

No small company of CGC's size pays big fees for thinktank consulting--I'm thining you're holding CGC to an unreasonable standard by comparing them to the types of standards large, massively-profitable companies are. Any idea how profitable they are? I wouldn't be able to pass the types of judgments you're passing on them without knowing this.

[Boba]

Yeah, what he said

 

 

[comicwiz]

On the CGC site there's a disclaimer:

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/services/services-terms-and-conditions.asp

 

10. Company compiles data regarding, and makes digital images of, items submitted for Services. In partial consideration for the performance of Services by Company pursuant to this Submission Form, Customer hereby authorizes Company to compile such data and make such images and agrees that Company shall have an irrevocable, non-exclusive, perpetual, unlimited, royalty-free right and license to use and commercialize such data and images for any purpose.

 

IMO, the problem with their "legal" position is that a non-exclusive license can be revoked at any time through a writing and the use of the word irrevocable is contradictory to the nature and definition of "non-exclusive license" as covered in USC 17.

 

Secondly, this disclaimer flies in the face of state based contract law and more importantly, if there is or ever was an intent for commerce they have a problem with tort law - negligent misrepresentation, material concealment and fraud.

 

JMO.

 

I had a book damaged during submission. Unfortunately when I contested that the damage happened during the time the book was in CGC's hands, they asked me provide a scan. The only scan I had of the book was not retrievable as it was on a computer that experienced permanent hard-disk failure. I was told CGC did not take scans of comics they receive, but after reading these terms, I'm wondering whether they conveniently used that excuse to discard me and my claim.

[comicwiz]

The decision for me was made long before this recent decision to charge a fee for graders notes.

 

That said, further to your point, I feel that it needs to go much further than boycotting their services.

 

It seems these boards are treated like their own private garden, where they can road test and gauge online temperatures and community response on poorly hatched plans or business changes.

 

I've held back numerous times from posting/responding to questions because I feel they need to start paying full freight for some of the insights and opinions being shared on these boards.

 

Businesses pay BIG fees for thinktank consulting. CGC's an all-grown-up-business now and needs to start doing the same.

 

No more free rides.

 

And if anyone here helps them with research on rarer stuff like I have in the past, make sure to start charging nosebleed toll rates.

 

No small company of CGC's size pays big fees for thinktank consulting--I'm thining you're holding CGC to an unreasonable standard by comparing them to the types of standards large, massively-profitable companies are. Any idea how profitable they are? I wouldn't be able to pass the types of judgments you're passing on them without knowing this.

 

That (the thinktank part) was a dig on the comment made by this boardie who claimed they were in the "million(ish)" revenue range.

 

I was totally serious about the free ride part though.

[fantastic_four]

On the CGC site there's a disclaimer:

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/services/services-terms-and-conditions.asp

 

10. Company compiles data regarding, and makes digital images of, items submitted for Services. In partial consideration for the performance of Services by Company pursuant to this Submission Form, Customer hereby authorizes Company to compile such data and make such images and agrees that Company shall have an irrevocable, non-exclusive, perpetual, unlimited, royalty-free right and license to use and commercialize such data and images for any purpose.

 

IMO, the problem with their "legal" position is that a non-exclusive license can be revoked at any time through a writing and the use of the word irrevocable is contradictory to the nature and definition of "non-exclusive license" as covered in USC 17.

 

Secondly, this disclaimer flies in the face of state based contract law and more importantly, if there is or ever was an intent for commerce they have a problem with tort law - negligent misrepresentation, material concealment and fraud.

 

JMO.

 

Even without the disclaimer, I can't imagine what law would prevent them from selling the notes.

[Mxwll Smrt]

IMO, it's a work for hire contract - and there's no such thing as a royalty free non-exclusive license en perpetuity. Compiling data is one thing. Charging a fee for access to data is another. Not clearly communicating to the client that there's commerce based on the process that's being entirely covered by the client or offering a reduction for license is negligent misrepresentation and material concealment. Again, JMO.

[fantastic_four]

That (the thinktank part) was a dig on the comment made by this boardie who claimed they were in the "million(ish)" revenue range.

 

I was totally serious about the free ride part though.

 

I've got no doubt their annual revenues are in the millions--I'd be quite surprised if they weren't just given the number of employees they have--but that doesn't tell me how profitable they are. I believe that in most American states, if a private business brings in more than a million or so in revenue--I think in my state of Virginia it's more like $250,000--then their earnings become a part of public record. I used to know a free web site I could check revenues and profits of Virginia businesses on, but they converted to a pay service and I haven't found another since. I recall looking up all the comic shops in my area on it just to see which ones made more than $250K per year. No idea if Florida makes this kind of company data public or not, but if they do, the info is likely out there. Gator may know.

 

If they were a $2 million-per-year company with a 10% profit margin I'd definitely have a different set of expectations for them than if they were a $10 million company with a 30% margin--I'd be concerned about hammering them if they were barely scraping by given how important they are to the hobby.