CBCS vs. CGC

[Tnerb]

Or, And in this corner...

 

The gauntlet has been thrown.

 

Someone put their money where their mouth is and that someone is Steve Borock. I too once did that by meeting with CGC to try to get a job. I flew down to Florida to try my hand at grading. The three days there were great, but alas due to reasons that I will not disclose I did not get the job, although I was good enough to be offered one.

 

I do know more about the grading practices and "secret sauce" of CGC but will not discuss that either. The signing of non-disclosures have nothing to do with it...ok maybe just a little. The first time I heard CGC (Paul Litch) use the terminology of Secret Sauce was about four years ago at Wizard World Philadelphia. I always wanted to write a journal with that as a tilte. I never did. Recently I heard Steve Borock use the same terminology, so I wonder who used it first?

 

But this isn't about the grading practices of CGC, something I became more comfortable with after I saw it in practice. This is more about Steve Borock creating another third party grading company. Everything that follows is my opinion only. I will not deal in facts, just thoughts, after all it's that whole non-disclosure thing.

 

CBCS is the new dog in town and I wonder should CGC worry? Vault arrived on the scene, a company I know nothing about and PGX still seems like the younger brother of your best friend that no one wants to play with.

 

Most of what I have read in Facebook, Twitter, and the CGC chat boards stress two different things to me. The first is that everyone is wishing Steve luck on this new venture and the second is, everyone seems to be hoping that this new venture that Steve is embarking on will help improve CGC. To me that sounds like, "Good luck, but I think you will fail".

 

I do wish Steve the best of luck on this venture and I am very curious on how everything will play out. I won't be sending my CGC graded books to CBCS since the cost will just be too high, however there will be a few I will send just to get an idea of how they grade. Of course... I will try to get a New Mutants set from them in their best grade, but that's only because I'm a sucker.

 

I can't afford both, and after seeing some of the prices CBCS is charging I can see them getting a fair part of the market. CGC is not only a third party grading company, it is the paramount grading company, the ones all others strive to be. In the sixties when Marvel really started to take hold, did DC worry?

 

Will CBCS have a website, chat boards, registry awards? Will they have a community where friends could be made? Will they start up like CVA? In 2000 a lot people waited to see if CGC would succeed and now 14 years later they have. But is the CGC that is around today a spoiled teen that thinks it knows everything or will they welcome their little brother to the world?

 

If you have been following then you know a lot of the answers. If this is a first, I recommend you check out the chat boards and Facebook. You never know, you just might want to be in on the ground floor, or you may just hope this is the push to make your favorite grading company actually listen.

 

At the end of the day, I wish Steve luck, because what I know of the man is, he wouldn't do something like this lightly and I think that he might, just might reminisce of the days CGC started while on the couch. Until he succeeds, not only will he be putting his money where his mouth is, he will also be putting his heart and soul there too.

 

Thanks for Reading.

 

See more journals by Tnerb

[bagofleas]

Being your little brother, I can identify with CBCS's uphill battle to compete. JK

 

I do know some of the answers to a lot of the questions surrounding CBCS, but there are still some unknowns at this point. I think Steve will try to "ease" into the market and slowly add features to the company as it grows rather than "storm" the industry all at once.

 

Overextending yourself initially can be a downfall. If he slowly builds a customer base over time and then adds features one at a time to accommodate them, he can slowly build a strong following that will be dedicated to his company.

 

But the problem is, that CGC is so well established now. It will be years before there is any real possibilty of "dethroning" them. And even then it won't be a dethroning, but more like a friendly rivalry of equals. But again, it will take years to get to that point, if it ever comes.

 

This does however pose some interesting issues for CGC. At first, you probably won't see any changes. But if Steve can slowly build his clientele to a point where CGC HAS to take some notice, then you might start seeing some back-and-forth features and updates changes between the companies. But again, it will take quite some time before that happens.

 

The truth is, when it comes to all of us long time registered CGC collectors out there, we probably won't ever leave CGC due to our in-too-deep situation with the company. Plus, even with the small deficiencies of CGC, we are just too used to the look and feel of a CGC graded book and what it currently stands for in the industry.

 

But for the newer generation of collectors out there, CBCS could become a way for them to establish a collection on their own with the feeling of being part of a company from the "ground up", as you put it.

 

Some of us here on the CGC registry may dabble here or there with CBCS at first, just to test the waters and see how the service differs, but ultimately, even if CBCS becomes a success, we will probably continue to use CGC. That is unless CGC refuses to acknowledge CBCS as any sort of competition and just keeps things going as they always have and allows Steve to surpass them in features, services and modernization.

 

But I think this will ultimately cause CGC to HAVE to make changes...... eventually.

 

I wish Steve all the best in his venture, and I don't say that with any sort of "I hope he fails" mentality. I hope his company is successful long-term and as a result, makes things better for all of us collectors out there, including all of us CGC collectors.

[Lee K]

Competition is healthy.

 

I'll use the new service to determine how I feel it compares and then I will have books graded by the company that I feel does the best job for the cost.

 

Sincerely

 

Lee K

[Chicago Boy]

CBCS doesn't exactly roll off the toungue like CGC does. I think it best to stick to 3 initials but I like the emblem better

[Tnerb]

Maybe CBC for short.

[isiTrue]

The name really needs to change. Personally, I'd prefer CCS. Comic Certification Service. It rolls off the tongue and isn't too similar to CGC.

 

Also, I'd say that the label design is one of the most important things for a new company that wants to compete in a market dominated by CGC. It HAS to look as good or even better than CGC's label. The rough draft I've seen doesn't come close.

 

If they decide to add the barcode, it should be on the back of the label.

[bagofleas]

The name really needs to change. Personally, I'd prefer CCS. Comic Certification Service. It rolls off the tongue and isn't too similar to CGC.

 

First of all, CCS is already taken.

 

Secondly, Steve has already established his business name and license. He wants to set it apart completely from CGC, which is understandable.

 

My guess is that if it gets referred to by anything else down the road other than CBCS, it will probably be CBC, as Tnerb suggests. But more than likely, CBCS is where it will stand for the foreseeable future.

 

He wants to separate his company from CGC or CCS or CCG or CVA or whichever company you pick. PGX did it with an extremely different name, even though it hasn't really helped them.

 

We're just too used to the three letter names. I don't have a problem with his using four letters to set his company apart, but these are really unimportant and petty semantics in my opinion. If his materials, service and applications are good enough, then 4 letters instead of 3 isn't going to matter.

 

I have mentioned this before, but I agree about the label. It definitely does not do it for me, and that is something that MUST be done right to really have a chance to make it in this industry. Steve is a smart guy, and I'm sure it is something he will pay attention to feedback on. But I'm sure there will be some who like the label and some who don't, but so far, I've seen the majority of opinions lean towards not liking it all that much.

 

As I've said before, it will take time to test the market and listen to customer feedback and apply any changes or updates necessary for him to successfully compete. Give the man some room to move.

[Mark 1]

I don't care about the name or the label. I care about quality grading, resto check, great customer service and a nice slab. The label will probably be tweaked soon...it's the easiest to modify.

 

The company name is fine.

 

In this industry it's your reputation that matters and Steve is one of the good guys. I hope he succeeds and both companies can coexist.

 

 

[bagofleas]

In this industry it's your reputation that matters and Steve is one of the good guys. I hope he succeeds and both companies can coexist.

 

 

I agree on all points here.

[surfer99]

The truth is, when it comes to all of us long time registered CGC collectors out there, we probably won't ever leave CGC due to our in-too-deep situation with the company. Plus, even with the small deficiencies of CGC, we are just too used to the look and feel of a CGC graded book and what it currently stands for in the industry.

 

But for the newer generation of collectors out there, CBCS could become a way for them to establish a collection on their own with the feeling of being part of a company from the "ground up", as you put it.

 

Way to make me feel old bagofleas, haha.

 

One thing I do wonder about CBS, I mean NBC, I mean CBCS (sheesh) is whether or not they will recognize a Signature Series CGC book, or will they give it a qualified label? I'm sure CGC won't recognize a CBCS SS book as authentic since they don't do this for PGX now. More than likely once you slab a book with a chosen company and get it signed, you are stuck with that company (unless you are one of the minority that don't care if your book is qualified).

 

 

[Tnerb]

If you check out their Facebook feed old man, I mean Surfer99, if you give CBCS a CGC snook, they will consider that authentic.

[Silver Collector]

Maybe CBC for short.

CBC is already taken (Complete Blood Count). Sorry I couldn't resist (ex lab tech humor).

 

Mike

[isiTrue]

The name really needs to change. Personally, I'd prefer CCS. Comic Certification Service. It rolls off the tongue and isn't too similar to CGC.

 

First of all, CCS is already taken.

 

Secondly, Steve has already established his business name and license. He wants to set it apart completely from CGC, which is understandable.

 

My guess is that if it gets referred to by anything else down the road other than CBCS, it will probably be CBC. But more than likely, CBCS is where it will stand for the foreseeable future.

 

He wants to separate his company from CGC or CCS or CCG or CVA or whichever company you pick. PGX did it with an extremely different name, even though it hasn't really helped them.

 

We're just too used to the three letter names. I don't have a problem with his using four letters to set his company apart, but these are really unimportant and petty semantics in my opinion. If his materials, service and applications are good enough, then 4 letters instead of 3 isn't going to matter.

 

I have mentioned this before, but I agree about the label. It definitely does not do it for me, and that is something that MUST be done right to really have a chance to make it in this industry. Steve is a smart guy, and I'm sure it is something he will pay attention to feedback on. But I'm sure there will be some who like the label and some who don't, but so far, I've seen the majority of opinions lean towards not liking it all that much.

 

As I've said before, it will take time to test the market and listen to customer feedback and apply any changes or updates necessary for him to successfully compete. Give the man some room to move.

 

Are you referring to the pressing company? I remembered Classic Collectible Services after I made my post, but didn't edit it since I thought the letters could still be used. A grading company vs restoration company... though you're probably right; it may be too similar for trademark purposes.

 

I care about quality grading, resto check, great customer service and a nice slab.

 

Well, obviously... that's a given. We're discussing the psychological factors involved with the companies' presentation.

 

Let's say that your TAT's are fantastic, grading is accurate, pricing is great, grader notes are free, and the slab has an excellent inner well holding the book. Good luck converting the masses to your company with a poorly designed label and clunky name! They'll see it on Ebay and think it's just another CGC knock-off or something and move on. Now, if you have a clean, attractive label, that changes things right away. They might take a closer look and want to find out more info about the company. Maybe they wouldn't mind mixing those nice labels with their CGC books.

 

Well, I'm curious to see how it turns out. Competition always favors the buyer.

[MatterEaterLad]

Great post.

 

I do hope the new company succeeds. And the name, I think it is clunky, but if they don't change it people will shorten it on their own. We'll be calling it CB for short or something...that kind of thing just happens.

 

The label is weak but I'm sure the design will evolve. CGC's did.

 

It's nice to have a viable competitor with a respected guy driving the boat. I'll definitely send some books in, raw, and CGC books, to get a sense of grading, service, timeliness, but also because I hope they succeed.

 

I have noticed that the turnaround time on two recent CGC submissions has been lightning quick, so maybe the pressure is on?