Marvel Cancelling Fantastic Four Comics to Spite Fox?

[con]

I have been finding myself going more DC than Marvel lately. I think it is because of the Disney stuff or overkill or something

[Prince Namor]

Ridiculous offers only come with emotional attachment.

 

To buy the franchise back it would take more money than Fox would earn in many years. That's just bad business.

And killing the franchise is not going to happen IMO.

 

This is just another publicity stunt by Marvel. Rather than kill a character, they kill a flagship title now. Even if it's an under performing title, it's

Agreed, plus Fox already has greenlighted a sequel to the FF reboot, so this isn`t going to be a one and done deal with a Fox FF movie. I would expect a trilogy of FF movies by Fox if we go by this article.

 

FOX announces FF sequel 2017!

 

They announce stuff like that so that people think they're serious about it, and start talking about it like its a big deal.

DC originally had a sequel planned for Green Lantern as well.

[Prince Namor]

Out of curiosity what was the reason behind separating the characters from th regular marvel universe and lending the characters to image artists to produce for a few months in the 1990's?

 

A) Just another gimmick to sell comics

B) to prove Liefeld and Lee are ho's that'll jump at the money, even at the cost of abandoning their own company.

C) those books were dead weight and with the Heroes World debacle Marvel needed a way to screw the other publishers out of rack space.

D) All of the above.

[bb8]

So does anyone know the actual details of the license deal between Fox and Darvel? Does Disney retain merchandising rights? What percentage of receipts do they get? Interwebs seem hazy on the subject.

 

Both publicly traded companies. Do enough research of their financial filings and it may come up in those.

 

Twenty-First Century Fox, Inc. SEC Filings

 

Walt Disney Company (The) SEC Filings

 

Ah lawsuits are our friend Apparently in 2001 Fox sued Marvel over the TV show "Mutant X", and the court was kind enough to spell out the agreement. Here are the highlights:

Deal was signed in 1993.

Marvel got 1.6 million dollars plus a % of gross revenues We can estimate this % because the lawsuit gives us good info. Apparently after all was said and done with the first X-Men movie, Marvel got a check for $6,000,000. Fox estimated $290,000,000 worldwide in box office plus "tens of millions" in merch and DVD rights lets set the total made at $350,000,000 which would make sense because Fox estimated it's profit at $160,000,000 so 50% of the gross would make sense. Thus Marvel is probably getting about ~ 1.5/2% of gross.

 

Fox got the exclusive right to create, produce, distribute and market theatrical motion pictures based on the "X-Men Property"

 

They share the merchandising rights and revenue

 

commercial tie-in rights, largely belong to Fox

 

Marvel has Publication rights,radio rights, and stage rights

 

animated television series rights, which were held by a Fox (Such a good show!)

 

Marvel apparently owns the live action TV rights BUT! are only able to use them having gained the prior written consent of Fox. This was the cause of the 2001 lawsuit. So basically Fox doesn't have the rights but can make sure no one else has them either, I guess to prevent "brand dilution" from the movies (which makes sense)

 

All rights revert back to Marvel if sequels are not made within a certain amount of time (I think 5 years)

 

The scope of the license to Fox is broad, encompassing any property contained in the "X-Men Universe" of comic books that Fox "may require" in order to create and produce its films, including the right to use Marvel's copyrights and trademarks in such property as Marvel would as owner of such rights.

 

Hope this helps

 

That's actually helpful and interesting, thanks!

[234wallst]

This is what I don't understand. With the deep pockets that Disney has why didn't they make a ridiculous offer for the rights to X-Men, FF and Spider-Man based on the box office of the first several movies? Overpaying to get the rights to key parts of the Marvel Universe would hurt short-term, but in the long-term the Marvel Universe would be unified and the movies that could be made with cross-overs would be unlimited. After Spider-Man 3 and X-Men 3 would have been a great time to make an offer. Maybe they did and offers were refused.

 

It's very difficult to put a price tag on the Spider-Man and X-Men movie rights. Both studios are going to keep pumping out reboots as long as they make money. The latest reincarnations are already successful. Maybe they can keep this cycle going for another 15-20 years. Think about how many dollars that could be and you know why it's impossible to come to an agreement on a sale price today.

 

Disney like any other company is looking out for its best interests (don't know why people are jumping on them for this). They definitely have been trying to promote Iron Man over Spider-Man and Wolverine and I think a lot has to do with the movie rights. With FF comic sales down, and the previous movies not very profitable it's a wise move on Disney's part (if intentional) to kick the franchise while it's down in hopes of reacquiring the rights in the future. Disney isn't just thinking about the next 3 years down the road, they are strategizing for both short and long term.

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

Disney isn't just thinking about the next 3 years down the road, they are strategizing for both short and long term.

 

That makes a lot of sense and if they are not emotionally invested in the characters like we fanboys and fangirls are it's very easy to do in a boardroom decision.

 

Sorry if this has been answered, but is it a Marvel decision or a Disney decision?

 

If it's a Marvel decision it's probably just a "Death of Superman" ploy taken to a whole new level.

[Buzzetta]

Disney isn't just thinking about the next 3 years down the road, they are strategizing for both short and long term.

 

That makes a lot of sense and if they are not emotionally invested in the characters like we fanboys and fangirls are it's very easy to do in a boardroom decision.

 

Sorry if this has been answered, but is it a Marvel decision or a Disney decision?

 

If it's a Marvel decision it's probably just a "Death of Superman" ploy taken to a whole new level.

 

Would not surprise me if it was a Disney decision. I remember the ridiculous memos they would issue and can laugh now. However, I was under the idea that marvel was allowed to operate as a separate entity with Disney providing the financial backing but under the Disney brand and ownership sort of like Zappos and amazon.

[jaybuck43]

They are more or less autonomis however some decisions are decided by Disney or Marvel Studios with no input from Marvel and must be carried out. Studios wields an unbelievable amount of power and Kevin has Ike's ear like no other.

[General Zod]

Disney isn't just thinking about the next 3 years down the road, they are strategizing for both short and long term.

 

That makes a lot of sense and if they are not emotionally invested in the characters like we fanboys and fangirls are it's very easy to do in a boardroom decision.

 

Sorry if this has been answered, but is it a Marvel decision or a Disney decision?

 

If it's a Marvel decision it's probably just a "Death of Superman" ploy taken to a whole new level.

 

I don't know. Marvel has been all "money talks, b.s. walks" for a long time now. Looking back at the history of comics, especially GA books, some previously immensely popular books/characters did get abandoned over time for whatever reasons, some likely to be much smaller in scope than this. So there is precedent. This could happen to the Fantastic Four if Fox's movies do not sustain the popularity as it's becoming more apparent Marvel is not feeling particularly attached to the franchise anymore. A lot of the old guard that lovingly toiled on FF and such are being cycled out over time. Some guys at Marvel already give me the creeps about the bottom line, so we may be witnessing the beginning of a tragedy.

[awakeintheashes]

Fantastic Four Skinned

...Marvel’s Senior VP Brevoort posted ”My denying rumors isn’t likely to keep anybody who’s prone to paranoia from panicking. But really, does this even seem remotely plausible to people? Does it make any sense? Folks have a very strange idea as to the way a business is run.”

 

But Tom knows exactly what’s going on and why, and his words were chosen with care. Because this is not a rational business choice, it is an emotional one.

 

Isaac Perlmutter, CEO of Marvel Comics and the largest single shareholder of Disney, used to be the guy in charge of Toy Biz. When Marvel bought that company, he successfully negotiated himself onto the Marvel board. And then when the publisher went bankrupt, was the man who successfully negotiated Marvel Comics out of that situation, becoming Marvel’s largest shareholder and CEO in the process. He is the man most responsible for Marvel Studios making films themselves. And it was he who decided to sell Marvel to Disney, and made over a billion in the process, to add to his existing billion – he is the richest man in comics by a long way.

 

Known for his penny pinching at every level, and rather personal politics when making decisions, the story we first reported about the Fantastic Four titles being cancelled to snub Fox Studios smacked of his decision making. And that’s what we eventually learned. Despite some people’s beliefs about Disney, we have been told by Marvel and close-to-Marvel sources that this an Ike decision. It’s simply down to Fox putting out the Fantastic Four movie, and him being fed up when he sees the Fantastic Four comic being promoted or even published, even in the Marvel offices and what he sees as giving free publicity to the film...

[dupont2005]

If it's a Marvel decision it's probably just a "Death of Superman" ploy taken to a whole new level.

I think it could be that either way. Those types of bait and switch gimmicks didn't come from comic writers, they came from comic executives. Now there's more executives, expect to see more gimmicks. To some 65 year old shark who probably hasn't read a comic book since he was ten, stories absolutely do not matter. Sales do. I doubt those executives ever said "Wow, I bet fans will really like this!" They're looking at graphs and charts and saying "The numbers indicate every time this happens sales spike for three to nine months, so lets do this every three to nine months."

[comicsnyc22]

Do they really think movie goers are influenced by currently printed comics?

 

Ding ding. This baffles me.

[rjrjr]

Marvel/Disney could have payed for the FF and get it back from FOX but they didn't which in a way makes me think Marvel didn't know how they would add them to their universe or how to make it a great film.

 

This is what I don't understand. With the deep pockets that Disney has why didn't they make a ridiculous offer for the rights to X-Men, FF and Spider-Man based on the box office of the first several movies? Overpaying to get the rights to key parts of the Marvel Universe would hurt short-term, but in the long-term the Marvel Universe would be unified and the movies that could be made with cross-overs would be unlimited. After Spider-Man 3 and X-Men 3 would have been a great time to make an offer. Maybe they did and offers were refused.

 

We wouldn't have as many superhero movies if Disney got these characters back. I think Disney just wants a deal with Fox like they have with Sony for Spider-Man.

[the blob]

Bad negotiators at Marvel didn't give them a way to get back the movie deals after a while or cap them at X years or Y movies??

[VintageComics]

Fantastic Four Skinned

...Marvel’s Senior VP Brevoort posted ”My denying rumors isn’t likely to keep anybody who’s prone to paranoia from panicking. But really, does this even seem remotely plausible to people? Does it make any sense? Folks have a very strange idea as to the way a business is run.”

 

But Tom knows exactly what’s going on and why, and his words were chosen with care. Because this is not a rational business choice, it is an emotional one.

 

Isaac Perlmutter, CEO of Marvel Comics and the largest single shareholder of Disney, used to be the guy in charge of Toy Biz. When Marvel bought that company, he successfully negotiated himself onto the Marvel board. And then when the publisher went bankrupt, was the man who successfully negotiated Marvel Comics out of that situation, becoming Marvel’s largest shareholder and CEO in the process. He is the man most responsible for Marvel Studios making films themselves. And it was he who decided to sell Marvel to Disney, and made over a billion in the process, to add to his existing billion – he is the richest man in comics by a long way.

 

Known for his penny pinching at every level, and rather personal politics when making decisions, the story we first reported about the Fantastic Four titles being cancelled to snub Fox Studios smacked of his decision making. And that’s what we eventually learned. Despite some people’s beliefs about Disney, we have been told by Marvel and close-to-Marvel sources that this an Ike decision. It’s simply down to Fox putting out the Fantastic Four movie, and him being fed up when he sees the Fantastic Four comic being promoted or even published, even in the Marvel offices and what he sees as giving free publicity to the film...

 

As Louise said yesterday, cutting off his nose to spite his face.

[Comicopolis]

Out of curiosity what was the reason behind separating the characters from th regular marvel universe and lending the characters to image artists to produce for a few months in the 1990's?

 

A) Just another gimmick to sell comics

B) to prove Liefeld and Lee are ho's that'll jump at the money, even at the cost of abandoning their own company.

C) those books were dead weight and with the Heroes World debacle Marvel needed a way to screw the other publishers out of rack space.

D) All of the above.

 

Not worth reading any of them then?

[Prince Namor]

Out of curiosity what was the reason behind separating the characters from th regular marvel universe and lending the characters to image artists to produce for a few months in the 1990's?

 

A) Just another gimmick to sell comics

B) to prove Liefeld and Lee are ho's that'll jump at the money, even at the cost of abandoning their own company.

C) those books were dead weight and with the Heroes World debacle Marvel needed a way to screw the other publishers out of rack space.

D) All of the above.

 

Not worth reading any of them then?

 

Back in the day, I tried to read the FF, but found it unappealing. Flipped through the others and thought they were even less appealing.

The whole reboot lasted a year and a month, before they re-rebooted.

Keep in mind that Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld also did the WRITING on these books. (Well, they had Jeff Loeb on Cap with Liefeld, but they battled for plot credit and Rob quit a couple of issues in).

[Comicopolis]

Out of curiosity what was the reason behind separating the characters from th regular marvel universe and lending the characters to image artists to produce for a few months in the 1990's?

 

A) Just another gimmick to sell comics

B) to prove Liefeld and Lee are ho's that'll jump at the money, even at the cost of abandoning their own company.

C) those books were dead weight and with the Heroes World debacle Marvel needed a way to screw the other publishers out of rack space.

D) All of the above.

 

Not worth reading any of them then?

 

Back in the day, I tried to read the FF, but found it unappealing. Flipped through the others and thought they were even less appealing.

The whole reboot lasted a year and a month, before they re-rebooted.

Keep in mind that Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld also did the WRITING on these books. (Well, they had Jeff Loeb on Cap with Liefeld, but they battled for plot credit and Rob quit a couple of issues in).

 

I bought them years after they were published - at least I know now not to bother reading them. (thumbs u

[HarveySwick]

Marvel declares all out war on Fox? ...well, according to Rob Liefeld.

[Ares]

Marvel declares all out war on Fox? ...well, according to Rob Liefeld.

 

Wanna Kill FF4

Let Rob draw it