can someone please develop a better RAW price guide

[1904 Comics]

I know there are plenty of you out there with engineering, analytics, web development and data-mining experience, that can help to build a website to better accomodate the value of raw books as proficiently as GPA. I'm tired of some dealers thinking they can use an OSPG on a present market value book that has all the signs of inflation. While I understand their goal is to obtain books at the lowest possible cost to them for maximal return on investment, it puts collectors at a disadvantage for even wanting to trade-in/sell their books to begin with. To cease this thread from becoming a rant, let's focus these thoughts into forward movement ideas instead.

 

1.) What are your recommendations on establishing a better market guide for raw books to support real-time present day value?

 

2.) Do you feel that a mobile application on your smart phone is essential for those of you that travel and buy/sell frequently to numerous locations?

 

3.) What positives or negatives do you see from the other price guide sites (ex. newkadia, comicbookspriceguide, etc) that would help to create or improve this new development?

 

4.) Miscellaneous: what comments or other suggestions do you have for improving?

[Meeklo]

That's going to be too hard because raw books are more subjective that slabbed. GPA works because there is no arguing over a book's grade. If it is 8.0, then it is an 8.0. For raw, the problem is that you are leaving up to essentially one person to decide what an 8.0 is and what it is worth. Their definition of an 8.0 may be my definition of 7.5 or your 8.5. If too many people disagree with that rating system, then eventually there will be another person somewhere asking if someone can make a better raw price guide…a never ending cycle.

 

The best price guide is you looking at ebay and judging the value based on what has sold and it's condition.

 

And I said it before, I'll say it again…books are not worth anything at all until someone buys it!

[Dr. Balls]

The best price guide is you looking at ebay and judging the value based on what has sold and it's condition.

 

That's got it's plus and minus side. Ebay sales are probably 50% ambiguous grading or the ever-classic "I'm not a professiona grader, judge for yourself from pictures", plus a sellers VF on-screen could be a FN+ in-hand.

 

I use Ebay as much as the next guy for current valuation, but I've found a combination of Ebay, OSPG and GPA is the best way to go. I know people want the be-all, end-all price guide - but I think the best way to price is to spend some time looking around to create an accurate comparable from a variety of sources. It not only gives you an accurate price, but allows you some foreknowledge of understanding what your negotiation room is.

[Artboy99]

That's going to be too hard because raw books are more subjective that slabbed. GPA works because there is no arguing over a book's grade. If it is 8.0, then it is an 8.0. For raw, the problem is that you are leaving up to essentially one person to decide what an 8.0 is and what it is worth. Their definition of an 8.0 may be my definition of 7.5 or your 8.5. If too many people disagree with that rating system, then eventually there will be another person somewhere asking if someone can make a better raw price guide…a never ending cycle.

 

The best price guide is you looking at ebay and judging the value based on what has sold and it's condition.

 

And I said it before, I'll say it again…books are not worth anything at all until someone buys it!

 

I wish it was the case. It is my opinion that CGC is rather inconsistent and all to often that 8.0 isn't an 8.0.

[Artboy99]

I know there are plenty of you out there with engineering, analytics, web development and data-mining experience, that can help to build a website to better accomodate the value of raw books as proficiently as GPA. I'm tired of some dealers thinking they can use an OSPG on a present market value book that has all the signs of inflation. While I understand their goal is to obtain books at the lowest possible cost to them for maximal return on investment, it puts collectors at a disadvantage for even wanting to trade-in/sell their books to begin with. To cease this thread from becoming a rant, let's focus these thoughts into forward movement ideas instead.

 

1.) What are your recommendations on establishing a better market guide for raw books to support real-time present day value?

 

2.) Do you feel that a mobile application on your smart phone is essential for those of you that travel and buy/sell frequently to numerous locations?

 

3.) What positives or negatives do you see from the other price guide sites (ex. newkadia, comicbookspriceguide, etc) that would help to create or improve this new development?

 

4.) Miscellaneous: what comments or other suggestions do you have for improving?

 

There is also the reverse: which is someone wanting to sell their GD copies of FF 33 for guide.

[rjpb]

As imperfect and incomplete as it is, checking ebay's completed listings is a better indicator of actual worth than OSPG ever was.

[mangbus]

I have a search string that I use that helps to eliminate runs/lots/slabs/signed books/etc from my Modern eBay "price checks." I sometimes remove the lowest/highest few that may look odd (bad listing time, high price that isn't rational.)

 

This helps me establish an average modern raw recent sales price.

 

If it is for my personal raw collection, I don't necessarily want NM+ or better, so this helps me get an idea of how an item is priced vs what it has been selling for. If a dealer has a clean 9.6/9.8 candidate on the wall for $50 and my price check is yielding $40, I won't hesitate to buy it at the $50 given that my number was considering a variety of conditions. If the dealer has it on the wall for $100, I tend to pass and look for something in the NM- to NM range (because that is my personal preference for price to grade and won't work for everyone.)

 

 

[rjrjr]

I know there are plenty of you out there with engineering, analytics, web development and data-mining experience, that can help to build a website to better accomodate the value of raw books as proficiently as GPA. I'm tired of some dealers thinking they can use an OSPG on a present market value book that has all the signs of inflation. While I understand their goal is to obtain books at the lowest possible cost to them for maximal return on investment, it puts collectors at a disadvantage for even wanting to trade-in/sell their books to begin with. To cease this thread from becoming a rant, let's focus these thoughts into forward movement ideas instead.

 

1.) What are your recommendations on establishing a better market guide for raw books to support real-time present day value?

 

2.) Do you feel that a mobile application on your smart phone is essential for those of you that travel and buy/sell frequently to numerous locations?

 

3.) What positives or negatives do you see from the other price guide sites (ex. newkadia, comicbookspriceguide, etc) that would help to create or improve this new development?

 

4.) Miscellaneous: what comments or other suggestions do you have for improving?

 

I always thought eBay could solve this problem themselves. If they enforced a "template" on the listings that involved key data (title, year, issue number, etc.), it would be easy enough for them to create a price guide for collectors. I'm guessing the reason they haven't is because it wouldn't encourage people to spend more on a collectible than the guide.

[HighRadArt]

I know there are plenty of you out there with engineering, analytics, web development and data-mining experience, that can help to build a website to better accomodate the value of raw books as proficiently as GPA. I'm tired of some dealers thinking they can use an OSPG on a present market value book that has all the signs of inflation. While I understand their goal is to obtain books at the lowest possible cost to them for maximal return on investment, it puts collectors at a disadvantage for even wanting to trade-in/sell their books to begin with. To cease this thread from becoming a rant, let's focus these thoughts into forward movement ideas instead.

 

1.) What are your recommendations on establishing a better market guide for raw books to support real-time present day value?

 

2.) Do you feel that a mobile application on your smart phone is essential for those of you that travel and buy/sell frequently to numerous locations?

 

3.) What positives or negatives do you see from the other price guide sites (ex. newkadia, comicbookspriceguide, etc) that would help to create or improve this new development?

 

4.) Miscellaneous: what comments or other suggestions do you have for improving?

 

I always thought eBay could solve this problem themselves. If they enforced a "template" on the listings that involved key data (title, year, issue number, etc.), it would be easy enough for them to create a price guide for collectors. I'm guessing the reason they haven't is because it wouldn't encourage people to spend more on a collectible than the guide.

 

I was thinking this as well and it would be a great tool.

[Prince Namor]

I think what some people want is a magical device that tells them when they are going through someones stock, that a book they are looking at is sorely undervalued, and that if they buy it, then on a certain magical date it will be worth it's apex in price (so sell!) at which point it's value will then decline to very little and be worthless, at which point they can pat themselves on the back, strut around the modern section of the forum, and feel good about a hobby that deep down they're embarrassed about.

[Prince Namor]

I use Ebay as much as the next guy for current valuation, but I've found a combination of Ebay, OSPG and GPA is the best way to go. I know people want the be-all, end-all price guide - but I think the best way to price is to spend some time looking around to create an accurate comparable from a variety of sources. It not only gives you an accurate price, but allows you some foreknowledge of understanding what your negotiation room is.

 

+1.

Absolutely.

Though I think it's important to mention 'completed sales' when talking about eBay, as I still see some people going by listed sales.

But yeah, a combination of the three is the way to go.

[jaeldubyoo]

Yes, it would be nice. But where's the incentive? Who would put up the time and money to do such a thing? The question is not if it's worthwhile for you, but is it worthwhile for the developer.

[1904 Comics]

Yes, it would be nice. But where's the incentive? Who would put up the time and money to do such a thing? The question is not if it's worthwhile for you, but is it worthwhile for the developer.

 

I think accuracy is incentive enough. The time and money would be strictly voluntary. I know there are many of you on the forums with broad talents in your repsective fields that could help to acheive this goal. I always look to these boards as a community that actively engages in a universal interest to improve the comic book industry.

 

If an unrestored book goes restored to unrestored to restored, someone or some group made sure the problem could be fixed. If slab encasing quality control declines, many make an effort to contact CGC with their concerns. The HoS and probies list are also evidence that collectively everyone plays a part in actively creating something on these forums that strives to make each respective buying/selling practice with the best possible outcome. Facebook didn't start off as a company that aimed to acheive ads or business. It was a design to elicit social media, bridge connections, and engage in good discussion at no cost.

 

My dream is to have a tool that aims to accomplish what noone in this industry has yet. Here are some ideas I thought of while reading the valuable input everyone has provided:

 

1.) eBay is the defacto standard for present day pricing = agreed. So how about taking this data and recording it similar to the way GPA does but incorporating a hybrid rating scale similar to PGM.

 

Example:

Sold Listing - FF52

Grade Given - VF+ (for no grades, option can be 'none offered')

Price Sold - $100

Date Sold - 06/06/2014

Rating -

1 - very inaccurate or photos are insufficient for visual grading

2 - inaccurate

3 - neutral

4 - accurate

5 - very accurate

 

The rating scale can be completed by users such as those of you who moderate or frequent the PGM thread. The March Madness top contestants are qualified candidates IMHO. They would treat the ratings similar to how we use our PGM threads by using the photos to determine how accurate the sellers grading is. The completed sales that score 4 and 5s with at least 3 ratings (similar to how CGC uses 3 graders) make it on the data guide while the others that do not pass are omitted.

 

Qualified sales posted on the website should have a front cover scan, back cover scan, spine scan (top $ bottom), and inside pages. There is even a potential for the actual buyer to post their comment about the book in hand as later option.

 

These are just rough ideas, but I would definitely like to see this happen even if I have to learn web design/development myself.

 

I appreciate everyone's ideas and input so far.

[Prince Namor]

Even eBay can only be seen as a guide, so really, using eBay, OSPG, and GPA is the best method to go.

 

What you're proposing would be a massive headache for a number of reasons, but first and foremost, keep this in mind:

 

a) fake sales on eBay - how do you know what's fake and what's not?

 

b) sellers who over and undergrade. How do you know from some of the crappy pictures posted? Is that REALLY a VF+ that sold for 1/2 of guide?

 

c) BUYERS who don't know! Did that guy (or girl) REALLY buy that VF+ at half of guide because it was a GREAT deal, or did they KNOW it wasn't a VF+ and bought it at the price that whatever they graded it at in their mind was ok with?

 

Ultimately, there are too many weird factors from eBay to take into account to put together a 'price guide' that's any more effective than just buying an iPhone, installing the eBay app, looking up the item, hitting completed sales and then making a guessimate, after checking OSPG and GPA.

 

IMHO, I think that 90% of the books you'll deal with, you'll get no better information than that from strangling those numbers.

 

 

 

 

[1904 Comics]

Yea Chuck, You're right. There's just too many uncontrolled factors to make it feasible.

 

[Prince Namor]

Yea Chuck, You're right. There's just too many uncontrolled factors to make it feasible.

In theory it's a good idea.

But even GPA isn't perfect and it has the benefit of all of it's books being third party graded...

[southerncross]

end of auction results is not the exact market price for a book.

Lets say their were 7 bidders on a book and it finished at $200

5 bidders were willing to go up to $90- $120

But the last 2 sniped in last 30 seconds one put in bid $190 the other $220

Is the book worth $200 ?

Book is worth what some one is willing to pay.

But the real market value is around $100

 

Using the average in GPn is maybe the closest you can get for market value

But the factors come in as these are CGC graded books and not raw

And their are some books that don't come up in the market place that often to get a snap shot of true worth.

 

To me auctions and BIN for comics should be treated like real estate

 

uncommon and highly sought after property goes to auction

Quick liquidation does as well

More common just gets listed at BIN and buyers haggle and sellers adjust depending on activity

(thumbs u

[Tony S]

I use Ebay as much as the next guy for current valuation, but I've found a combination of Ebay, OSPG and GPA is the best way to go. I know people want the be-all, end-all price guide - but I think the best way to price is to spend some time looking around to create an accurate comparable from a variety of sources. It not only gives you an accurate price, but allows you some foreknowledge of understanding what your negotiation room is.

 

+1.

Absolutely.

Though I think it's important to mention 'completed sales' when talking about eBay, as I still see some people going by listed sales.

But yeah, a combination of the three is the way to go.

 

+2. There is no substitute for working a bit harder and getting info from all three of the sources mentioned.

[Conan_Aficionado]

ebay ebay ebay, best present day price guide. /thread

[Flaming_Telepath]

The best price guide is you looking at ebay and judging the value based on what has sold and it's condition.

 

I maintain that eBay is the very worst venue for ascertaining true market value.