Subscription Creases

[Kramerica]

Wondering how everyone addresses subscription creases when grading a comic. I've been looking at a collection in which 40% of the books have subscription creases but the collector then took very good care of them. So, let's just say I have an otherwise 9.0 comic with a subscription crease that breaks color on both the front and back cover. How much do you drop the hammer on it?

 

The OS Grading Guide hasn't been much help to me in this instance. I've always had my SOP when dealing with them and would like to know what others think.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Dick Pontoon]

VG.

[Treco]

VG.

 

I'd have to agree. When I look at a book with a sub crease, no matter how nice it is otherwise, I can't get past it.

 

I'm shallow that way.

[bb8]

I think I've seen CGC books with sub creases go as high as 5.0 or so. That'd probably be my max.

[Kramerica]

Thanks!

 

You guys rock. Furiously

[Comicdey]

Yep. 5.0 max

[porcupine48]

that is a shame...how many OO collections ,complete runs because of their subs

do you think are out there with this problem?

I know a fellow that has ASM 1 to 100 plus annuals,same with FF that for a dozen to two dozen in a row(after say issue 10 to 15 of each series) he had home delivered.I did not mind reading them but,wheeew....I would say at least of a third of his collection were sub creased...

[Comicdey]

I love a perfect 5.0 sub creased book I have a handful of GA jumbos and jungles that are otherwise 9.0+

[Kramerica]

Thanks Guys. Yeah, a very large portion of the DC's - keys included are all great looking books but have the sub creases. Same with a lot of the FF's, TOS's and TTA's. Still very pretty but.....arrrrrgh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[porcupine48]

at least you know they went to a home with love?

Oddly,Marty Manns sub books dont seem to have the fold.Must have been mailed flat way back when?Is there a subcrease show em thread yet gang?Love to see the Kramerica collection plus those GA goodies!

[ttfitz]

at least you know they went to a home with love?

Oddly,Marty Manns sub books dont seem to have the fold.Must have been mailed flat way back when?Is there a subcrease show em thread yet gang?Love to see the Kramerica collection plus those GA goodies!

 

I feel like I got subscription books that weren't folded over, but that might have been the larger 100 pagers that came along, so I'm not sure.

[southerncross]

4.0

 

if you want to puff the grade then 5.0

[porcupine48]

at least you know they went to a home with love?

Oddly,Marty Manns sub books dont seem to have the fold.Must have been mailed flat way back when?Is there a subcrease show em thread yet gang?Love to see the Kramerica collection plus those GA goodies!

 

I feel like I got subscription books that weren't folded over, but that might have been the larger 100 pagers that came along, so I'm not sure.

I just read JLA 110,a 100 pager and in the house add for subscriptions in bold letters it claimed 100 page books MAILED FLAT.Nothing about the others being so for whatever reason.

[Kramerica]

4.0

 

if you want to puff the grade then 5.0

 

I've actually been starting at an automatic 4.0 if it breaks color all the way on both sides and then working my way down with regards to other defects which in some cases is not much which makes this so heartbreaking. Most end up at 3.0/3.5. Luckily the whole collection is not like that.

[ttfitz]

at least you know they went to a home with love?

Oddly,Marty Manns sub books dont seem to have the fold.Must have been mailed flat way back when?Is there a subcrease show em thread yet gang?Love to see the Kramerica collection plus those GA goodies!

 

I feel like I got subscription books that weren't folded over, but that might have been the larger 100 pagers that came along, so I'm not sure.

I just read JLA 110,a 100 pager and in the house add for subscriptions in bold letters it claimed 100 page books MAILED FLAT.Nothing about the others being so for whatever reason.

 

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

 

Now, that being said, I'm not sure the "mailed flat" was better - yes, no crease, but keep in mind that these subscription books were mailed with nothing more than a "plain brown wrapper", open at each end and rather thin at that. My memory is that folded in half at least made it a little less floppy, and less likely to be beat up in the mail.

 

[Comicdey]

Not all sub creases are equal and as stated above. Other defects can take over and reduce the overall grade. I don't think it's puffing to get to a VG/FN 5.0 grade for a book that is essentially perfect with a sub crease. Many GA sub creases don't break color but are obviously sub creased books. SA are a bit tougher as a truly sub creases book will usually break color. There are the books that get classified as sub creases that were actually damaged by readers in a similar fashion but not to the extent of a mailed book.

 

It's not black and white. It never is. Those that live in the black and white world tend to struggle in real world business. My two cents.

 

And to make matters worse. It's not what we think so much as "how will CGC grade this". ::

 

What price will be paid, Regardless of the "grade" is also a good indicator.

[makeminemego]

I just bought a run of Avengers 5-15 that are almost all 8.0, with the exception that they all have sub-creases. Beautiful books.

 

Why is it that we hold sub creases to such a critical standard, but let the long reading creases that run parallel to the spine go (for the most part)?

 

Grading sub creases is one of the few things that I think CGC does better than the Overstreet standard. CGC isn't that tough on them, at least in my experience.

[divad]

Not all sub creases are equal and as stated above. Other defects can take over and reduce the overall grade. I don't think it's puffing to get to a VG/FN 5.0 grade for a book that is essentially perfect with a sub crease. Many GA sub creases don't break color but are obviously sub creased books. SA are a bit tougher as a truly sub creases book will usually break color. There are the books that get classified as sub creases that were actually damaged by readers in a similar fashion but not to the extent of a mailed book.

 

It's not black and white. It never is. Those that live in the black and white world tend to struggle in real world business. My two cents.

 

And to make matters worse. It's not what we think so much as "how will CGC grade this". ::

 

What price will be paid, Regardless of the "grade" is also a good indicator.

 

This. Over and Over again.

[MR SigS]

For an otherwise strong 9.0, I'd say 5.0 max.

[ttfitz]

 

Why is it that we hold sub creases to such a critical standard, but let the long reading creases that run parallel to the spine go (for the most part)?

 

I'd say it's the old real estate adage - location, location, location. A long reading crease near the spine generally doesn't effect how the book looks nearly as much as a sub crease right through the middle of action.