Comic Book Investing

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I was close. I think Seeburger's 34-35 now.

[lizards2]

A weatherbeaten 39

 

53 here, so no idea what youse guys are talking about. Did see the gnomes episode on Southpark..., multiple times......., but my memory is...., Alzheimers at this point in life.

[Jaydogrules]

Lets not forget most of these "investments" were originally priced at $.10-$.15. Even mid-grade JLA's and Sgt Fury's going for $15 have gone up 10,000%+. .

 

It is a waste of time to "invest" in comic books.

 

For as many winners as there have been, there are many, many losers.

 

One of the most expensive books in 1980 was Four Color Comics Vol 2. #9. It listed for $1800 in "mint", which was a fortune at the time (and Action #1 was $9200.) It was Carl Barks dreaminess, and it was near the top for pricey comics (#15th most expensive.)

 

And, even if you could find the book, the odds were very great that it was, at best, a modern F/VF.

 

What is its F/VF value now? $3500, or thereabouts. It barely breaks the top 100 now.

 

Sure, anyone who bought high grade gold and silver superhero did very well...if they could find it. Finding it, not so easy. Finding it unrestored, even harder.

 

I have tens of thousands of comics books that I bought brand new, and, with few exceptions (New Mutants #98) have all turned out to be huge duds. The only thing...and I mean the ONLY thing...that saved me is that I have always been extremely particular about condition, so just about everything I ever bought off the stands is 9.8 or better.

 

But you don't have that option, at least, not very easily, when buying back issues, unless you buy slabs. Slabs are a poor investment, especially those bought at the peak of hype.

 

And God forbid what could happen if physical copies cease being published.

 

Don't invest. You will probably fail (that's what the odds say.) Buy what you love, and if it goes up, consider it a bonus.

 

While no one is suggesting that you try to retire based solely on comic books, a slabbed key is absolutely as liquid as a bar of gold. That was the genius of CGC.

 

-J.

[lou_fine]

It is a waste of time to "invest" in comic books.

 

For as many winners as there have been, there are many, many losers.

 

I have tens of thousands of comics books that I bought brand new, and, with few exceptions (New Mutants #98) have all turned out to be huge duds. The only thing...and I mean the ONLY thing...that saved me is that I have always been extremely particular about condition, so just about everything I ever bought off the stands is 9.8 or better.

 

Buy what you love, and if it goes up, consider it a bonus.

 

From an investment point of view, buying brand new books off the newsstand and expecting to make money off them is equivalent to buying penny stocks and expecting to make a fortune on them.

 

Both of these so-called "investment assets" with few exceptions, will turn out to be huge duds, although you should at least be able to get reading pleasure and enjoyment from your comics. If you are planning to get an investment return from your comics, you really should be putting your money into investment quality books.

 

However, I am in 100% agreement with your last sentence! (thumbs u

[HighStakesComics]

So lets cut to the brass tax. Supposedly the Church copy of Action #1 is 9.4-9.6 but the owner refuses to have it graded. Lets say he changed his mind and it gets a 9.6, like many books from that collection. What do you suppose an Action #1, 9.6, Mile High Pedigree goes for at auction? $6-7,000,000?

[RockMyAmadeus]

While no one is suggesting that you try to retire based solely on comic books, a slabbed key is absolutely as liquid as a bar of gold. That was the genius of CGC.

 

-J.

 

Um.

 

Well, slabs are definitely the most liquid part of the comics industry, but....

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

It is a waste of time to "invest" in comic books.

 

For as many winners as there have been, there are many, many losers.

 

I have tens of thousands of comics books that I bought brand new, and, with few exceptions (New Mutants #98) have all turned out to be huge duds. The only thing...and I mean the ONLY thing...that saved me is that I have always been extremely particular about condition, so just about everything I ever bought off the stands is 9.8 or better.

 

Buy what you love, and if it goes up, consider it a bonus.

 

From an investment point of view, buying brand new books off the newsstand and expecting to make money off them is equivalent to buying penny stocks and expecting to make a fortune on them.

 

Both of these so-called "investment assets" with few exceptions, will turn out to be huge duds, although you should at least be able to get reading pleasure and enjoyment from your comics. If you are planning to get an investment return from your comics, you really should be putting your money into investment quality books.

 

However, I am in 100% agreement with your last sentence! (thumbs u

 

Please don't forget the Four Color #9 that was the focus of my argument, which was edited out.

 

And for discussion's sake, I stopped buying new books as investments in 1993.

 

Since then, I've been doing...other...things.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

So lets cut to the brass tax. Supposedly the Church copy of Action #1 is 9.4-9.6 but the owner refuses to have it graded. Lets say he changed his mind and it gets a 9.6, like many books from that collection. What do you suppose an Action #1, 9.6, Mile High Pedigree goes for at auction? $6-7,000,000?

 

Not sure how that makes your point. One cannot invest in something which one is precluded from owning.

 

But yes, it could sell for as much as that, but the better estimates stop at $5M.

 

"tacks"

[RockMyAmadeus]

you really should be putting your money into investment quality books.

 

What, exactly, IS an "investment quality" book...? From your perspective.

[Petey's Wheatcake]

20 years ago I put every extra dime I had into EC horror, silver age marvel and golden age Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. I loved reading and collecting all of these comics, but the obvious investment potential was the driving force in my spending habits. These were not shocking gambles I was making by putting my money into Marvel and DC, and if this thread had existed at the time, wouldn't everyone have suggested silver keys?

 

10 years later I sold them all and invested in my construction business which grew by leaps and bounds (Superman reference ) for about five years until the housing market went into the toilet and all of my builders went under, basically taking me with them. Prior to the sale of all of my beloved funny books, I had seriously considered going back into comics before making the "safe" choice which eventually left me with nothing.

 

I certainly don't think you can go wrong by simply buying what you enjoy, but intelligent investment in vintage comic books has been an almost can't miss proposition since I've been alive. Even those EC and Wonder Woman issues brought me a small profit after a decade, and the silver age keys (all G to VG at best) were obviously excellent investments.

 

Basically, I assume anyone who doesn't believe comics are a solid investment is making the argument that the bottom is going to fall out here soon. Because I honestly can't come up with many better, more obvious options for long term profit historically.

[RockMyAmadeus]

20 years ago I put every extra dime I had into EC horror, silver age marvel and golden age Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. I loved reading and collecting all of these comics, but the obvious investment potential was the driving force in my spending habits. These were not shocking gambles I was making by putting my money into Marvel and DC, and if this thread had existed at the time, wouldn't everyone have suggested silver keys?

 

10 years later I sold them all and invested in my construction business which grew by leaps and bounds (Superman reference ) for about five years until the housing market went into the toilet and all of my builders went under, basically taking me with them. Prior to the sale of all of my beloved funny books, I had seriously considered going back into comics before making the "safe" choice which eventually left me with nothing.

 

I certainly don't think you can go wrong by simply buying what you enjoy, but intelligent investment in vintage comic books has been an almost can't miss proposition since I've been alive. Even those EC and Wonder Woman issues brought me a small profit after a decade, and the silver age keys (all G to VG at best) were obviously excellent investments.

 

Basically, I assume anyone who doesn't believe comics are a solid investment is making the argument that the bottom is going to fall out here soon. Because I honestly can't come up with many better, more obvious options for long term profit historically.

 

You're talking about a collectibles field that had roughly two decades of "opportunity buying" after they became acceptable as "legitimate investments" and before they priced everyone out of the market.

 

What do you mean by "long term"?

 

What do you mean by "profit"?

 

What do you mean by "solid investment"? 20% annualized return? 10%? 2%? 100%?

 

Do you think a Fantasy #15 9.6 at $1,100,000 is a "solid investment"?

 

How about a New Mutants #98 9.8 for $400?

 

What about a Green Lantern #76 9.6 for $37,000?

 

How about a Hulk #181 9.8 for $26,501?

 

And in those 90's, when you were buying these books, did you ever unknowingly buy books that were restored?

 

Comic buying in the 70's and 80's was a perfect time for investment. There had already been quite solid, across-the-board gains, but everything wasn't priced so high as to exclude most buyers. It was much like the coin market in the 30's and 40's. By the 50's, you could no longer find anything of any value in regular circulation; and forget keys.

 

It's easy to look back and point to gains and say "see? Look what they did!"...not so easy to point to the future and say "see? Look what they'll DO!"

 

There was even a time...horror of HORRORS!...when the bluest of blue chip "comic book investments", Silver Age Marvel keys, took a dump. It was short, but it was real, and it looked like the end had come (I speak of 1982-1985.)

[HighStakesComics]

Sir, you are a scholar and a poet.

[RockMyAmadeus]

PS. From 1999-2002, it was a buyer's market on eBay. You could get almost anything, for practically nothing. Those who paid retail prices in the early to mid 90's (think $30 for X-Men #108 in VF) lost, and lost hard.

 

I still have thousands of beautiful silver and bronze keys and semi-keys I bought from this era for dollars. $3-$5 for NM Starlin Warlocks. $10-$20 for Iron Man #55. $100 for Spidey #129 in VF. $66 for Turtles #1 (yes, my copy.)

 

Those people who sold those books lost BIG time.

 

Solid investments.....?

 

[Jaydogrules]

20 years ago I put every extra dime I had into EC horror, silver age marvel and golden age Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. I loved reading and collecting all of these comics, but the obvious investment potential was the driving force in my spending habits. These were not shocking gambles I was making by putting my money into Marvel and DC, and if this thread had existed at the time, wouldn't everyone have suggested silver keys?

 

10 years later I sold them all and invested in my construction business which grew by leaps and bounds (Superman reference ) for about five years until the housing market went into the toilet and all of my builders went under, basically taking me with them. Prior to the sale of all of my beloved funny books, I had seriously considered going back into comics before making the "safe" choice which eventually left me with nothing.

 

I certainly don't think you can go wrong by simply buying what you enjoy, but intelligent investment in vintage comic books has been an almost can't miss proposition since I've been alive. Even those EC and Wonder Woman issues brought me a small profit after a decade, and the silver age keys (all G to VG at best) were obviously excellent investments.

 

Basically, I assume anyone who doesn't believe comics are a solid investment is making the argument that the bottom is going to fall out here soon. Because I honestly can't come up with many better, more obvious options for long term profit historically.

 

You're talking about a collectibles field that had roughly two decades of "opportunity buying" after they became acceptable as "legitimate investments" and before they priced everyone out of the market.

 

What do you mean by "long term"?

 

What do you mean by "profit"?

 

What do you mean by "solid investment"? 20% annualized return? 10%? 2%? 100%?

 

Do you think a Fantasy #15 9.6 at $1,100,000 is a "solid investment"?

 

How about a New Mutants #98 9.8 for $400?

 

What about a Green Lantern #76 9.6 for $37,000?

 

How about a Hulk #181 9.8 for $26,501?

 

And in those 90's, when you were buying these books, did you ever unknowingly buy books that were restored?

 

Comic buying in the 70's and 80's was a perfect time for investment. There had already been quite solid, across-the-board gains, but everything wasn't priced so high as to exclude most buyers. It was much like the coin market in the 30's and 40's. By the 50's, you could no longer find anything of any value in regular circulation; and forget keys.

 

It's easy to look back and point to gains and say "see? Look what they did!"...not so easy to point to the future and say "see? Look what they'll DO!"

 

There was even a time...horror of HORRORS!...when the bluest of blue chip "comic book investments", Silver Age Marvel keys, took a dump. It was short, but it was real, and it looked like the end had come (I speak of 1982-1985.)

 

These are straw man arguments. Every single investment class/group has taken a dump at one time or another.

 

-J.

[HighStakesComics]

From your examples you could make the point that either A.) Marvel keys are overvalued, B.) By the same standard certain ga keys are undervalued ( all star 3 & 8, more fun 73, All American 19), or C.) We are staring down the barrel of hyperinflation not seen since the Weimar Republic or perhaps D.) a bit of A, B & C all mixed together. Ill go with D. And yes, Amadeus, the 60 copies of X-Men #1 you hoarded back in 92' will still be worth $.75 a piece if gas shoots up to $100.00 a gallon.

[shadroch]

you really should be putting your money into investment quality books.

 

What, exactly, IS an "investment quality" book...? From your perspective.

 

 

Books that have doubled every five years, for the last twenty, that feature characters that are not likely to lose their popularity in the next twenty years, and are priced in the $100-$500 range. Once a book crosses the $1,000 mark, its liquidity is affected greatly.

Buy below market value, hold it until you can make a 20-30% profit, and repeat.Not a flipper, but I'm also not a museum. Every book has its buying price and its selling price.

[RockMyAmadeus]

20 years ago I put every extra dime I had into EC horror, silver age marvel and golden age Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. I loved reading and collecting all of these comics, but the obvious investment potential was the driving force in my spending habits. These were not shocking gambles I was making by putting my money into Marvel and DC, and if this thread had existed at the time, wouldn't everyone have suggested silver keys?

 

10 years later I sold them all and invested in my construction business which grew by leaps and bounds (Superman reference ) for about five years until the housing market went into the toilet and all of my builders went under, basically taking me with them. Prior to the sale of all of my beloved funny books, I had seriously considered going back into comics before making the "safe" choice which eventually left me with nothing.

 

I certainly don't think you can go wrong by simply buying what you enjoy, but intelligent investment in vintage comic books has been an almost can't miss proposition since I've been alive. Even those EC and Wonder Woman issues brought me a small profit after a decade, and the silver age keys (all G to VG at best) were obviously excellent investments.

 

Basically, I assume anyone who doesn't believe comics are a solid investment is making the argument that the bottom is going to fall out here soon. Because I honestly can't come up with many better, more obvious options for long term profit historically.

 

You're talking about a collectibles field that had roughly two decades of "opportunity buying" after they became acceptable as "legitimate investments" and before they priced everyone out of the market.

 

What do you mean by "long term"?

 

What do you mean by "profit"?

 

What do you mean by "solid investment"? 20% annualized return? 10%? 2%? 100%?

 

Do you think a Fantasy #15 9.6 at $1,100,000 is a "solid investment"?

 

How about a New Mutants #98 9.8 for $400?

 

What about a Green Lantern #76 9.6 for $37,000?

 

How about a Hulk #181 9.8 for $26,501?

 

And in those 90's, when you were buying these books, did you ever unknowingly buy books that were restored?

 

Comic buying in the 70's and 80's was a perfect time for investment. There had already been quite solid, across-the-board gains, but everything wasn't priced so high as to exclude most buyers. It was much like the coin market in the 30's and 40's. By the 50's, you could no longer find anything of any value in regular circulation; and forget keys.

 

It's easy to look back and point to gains and say "see? Look what they did!"...not so easy to point to the future and say "see? Look what they'll DO!"

 

There was even a time...horror of HORRORS!...when the bluest of blue chip "comic book investments", Silver Age Marvel keys, took a dump. It was short, but it was real, and it looked like the end had come (I speak of 1982-1985.)

 

These are straw man arguments. Every single investment class/group has taken a dump at one time or another.

 

-J.

 

 

I'm not quite sure you know what a "straw man argument" really is.

 

In case you don't, a straw man argument is where I present a distorted view of the other person's position, and then attack that as if that's what the other person actually said.

 

I'm pretty sure what you are trying to say is "irrelevant arguments."

 

But the fact that every single investment class/group has taken a dump at one time or another (which is not strictly true) supports my position.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

you really should be putting your money into investment quality books.

 

What, exactly, IS an "investment quality" book...? From your perspective.

 

 

Books that have doubled every five years, for the last twenty, that feature characters that are not likely to lose their popularity in the next twenty years, and are priced in the $100-$500 range. Once a book crosses the $1,000 mark, its liquidity is affected greatly.

Buy below market value, hold it until you can make a 20-30% profit, and repeat.Not a flipper, but I'm also not a museum. Every book has its buying price and its selling price.

 

I was actually looking specifically for Lou's responses, but let's give it a whirl:

 

Do you have an example? $100-$500 range raw? Slabbed? Grade?

 

What are the conditions wherein these books doubled every five years, for the last twenty, and are those conditions repeatable?

 

How does one "buy below market value"...? I'm not talking about a single copy; that's easy. I'm talking about enough to make the venture worthwhile. Buying a single book doesn't really much of an investment make, at your price threshold.

 

 

[Petey's Wheatcake]

It's easy to look back and point to gains and say "see? Look what they did!"...not so easy to point to the future and say "see? Look what they'll DO!"

quote]

 

That's an excellent point, and my EC and Wonder Woman purchases prove that you can't just wave your hand and make money appear. I really do think that there are plenty of great investment opportunities still to be had though, and there always have been for as long as I can remember.

 

I've always made money with comics. Not on every purchase of course, but overall "invest in Spider-man" isn't that novel a concept. So, to be clear. my whole point is actually that "Look what they did!" and "Look what they'll do!" have so often been the exact same thing.

 

I apologize for being a slow typist, but examples to follow in a minute.

[HighStakesComics]

PS. From 1999-2002, it was a buyer's market on eBay. You could get almost anything, for practically nothing. Those who paid retail prices in the early to mid 90's (think $30 for X-Men #108 in VF) lost, and lost hard.

 

I still have thousands of beautiful silver and bronze keys and semi-keys I bought from this era for dollars. $3-$5 for NM Starlin Warlocks. $10-$20 for Iron Man #55. $100 for Spidey #129 in VF. $66 for Turtles #1 (yes, my copy.)

 

Those people who sold those books lost BIG time.

 

Solid investments.....?

 

 

 

Careful now, Amadeus. You are starting to make me think comics aren't such a bad investment after all.