Comic Con - Geeks for consent

[dupont2005]

This thread is maddening. Why doesn't anyone notice the SCAM aspect of the article?

 

Pulled from the article to break it down:

 

"Geeks for CONsent, founded by three women from Philadelphia..."

 

Ok, three, that's 3, women from Philly. And how many attendees at SDCC?

 

"gathered nearly 2,600 signatures on an online petition supporting a formal anti-harassment policy at Comic-Con."

 

Was that before or after they actually WENT to SDCC?

 

"...to help end public harassment against women and members of the LGBT community. She and her colleagues developed a comic book on the subject in hopes of engaging middle- and high-school students, which is what brought them to Comic-Con."

 

So maybe, just maybe, a teeny enterprise saw an opportunity to SCAM Comic-Con and it's 100+ thousands of attendees to gain attention for themselves? And maybe, just maybe, the Associated Press stepped right in it because, well, politically correct nonsense is a headline du jour?

 

Cool way to pimp a COMIC BOOK. Maybe at the expense of everyone else at Comic-Con, but oh well.

 

That would be an excellent point, if they were the only people complaining. How many of the 2600 people who signed were comicon attendees? How do you know those women don't attend SDCC? How do you know they don't attend other conventions?

 

Last I checked, there was a comic convention in Philly.

 

And which of your gripes with the article casts doubt or provides contradictory evidence to their claims?

[Sauce Dog]

This thread is maddening. Why doesn't anyone notice the SCAM aspect of the article?

 

Pulled from the article to break it down:

 

"Geeks for CONsent, founded by three women from Philadelphia..."

 

Ok, three, that's 3, women from Philly. And how many attendees at SDCC?

 

"gathered nearly 2,600 signatures on an online petition supporting a formal anti-harassment policy at Comic-Con."

 

Was that before or after they actually WENT to SDCC?

 

"...to help end public harassment against women and members of the LGBT community. She and her colleagues developed a comic book on the subject in hopes of engaging middle- and high-school students, which is what brought them to Comic-Con."

 

So maybe, just maybe, a teeny enterprise saw an opportunity to SCAM Comic-Con and it's 100+ thousands of attendees to gain attention for themselves? And maybe, just maybe, the Associated Press stepped right in it because, well, politically correct nonsense is a headline du jour?

 

Cool way to pimp a COMIC BOOK. Maybe at the expense of everyone else at Comic-Con, but oh well.

 

That would be an excellent point, if they were the only people complaining. How many of the 2600 people who signed were comicon attendees? How do you know those women don't attend SDCC? How do you know they don't attend other conventions?

 

Last I checked, there was a comic convention in Philly.

 

And which of your gripes with the article casts doubt or provides contradictory evidence to their claims?

 

Yeah i don't see what about this is a scam? They are trying to raise both awareness and safety for all women at comic conventions, and you do that sort of thing WITH comics and at such conventions.

 

Why exactly is it a bad thing? Promoting new, social change in the attitude of the convention folk is a welcome thing - especially if they took the time to craft it into a story that can be given out as a comic.

 

[Dano]

The biggest thing I have a problem with is the "you have to ask me for a photo" Please give us all a brake, if you didn't want to be photographed you wouldn't be out in costume and want the attention. Having someone take your picture is not the same as someone groping you( which is never tolerable).

 

You are allowed to take pictures of people in public but the manner you do so in is the issue. If you are following girls (maybe even not backing off when asked) taking creepy up skirt shots or muttering sexist comments to yourself or friends while doing so then that person might start feeling uncomfortable - which is harassment.

 

Just because I like to dress nice each day does NOT mean I want my photograph taken, nor does it apply to a setting where girls are finally comfortable expressing their love of characters by dressing up. The expression of the fandom does not imply a consent to anything else you think you are entitled too.

 

Just because it isn't the same has being grouped does not make it any less an action that could constitute harassment and make a person feel uncomfortable.

 

Have some decent manners, be a decent human being, and just ask permission. It just seems lots of people lack basic people skills in these cases.

Comicon is this, times a hundred and thirty thousand

 

Brilliant.

 

Dan

[Supa-Bad-Mofo]

I have only chauvinistic things to add, but it rhymes with don't dress like a "slut" if you don't want the attention.

[Davenport]

This thread is maddening. Why doesn't anyone notice the SCAM aspect of the article?

 

Pulled from the article to break it down:

 

"Geeks for CONsent, founded by three women from Philadelphia..."

 

Ok, three, that's 3, women from Philly. And how many attendees at SDCC?

 

"gathered nearly 2,600 signatures on an online petition supporting a formal anti-harassment policy at Comic-Con."

 

Was that before or after they actually WENT to SDCC?

 

"...to help end public harassment against women and members of the LGBT community. She and her colleagues developed a comic book on the subject in hopes of engaging middle- and high-school students, which is what brought them to Comic-Con."

 

So maybe, just maybe, a teeny enterprise saw an opportunity to SCAM Comic-Con and it's 100+ thousands of attendees to gain attention for themselves? And maybe, just maybe, the Associated Press stepped right in it because, well, politically correct nonsense is a headline du jour?

 

Cool way to pimp a COMIC BOOK. Maybe at the expense of everyone else at Comic-Con, but oh well.

 

That would be an excellent point, if they were the only people complaining. How many of the 2600 people who signed were comicon attendees? How do you know those women don't attend SDCC? How do you know they don't attend other conventions?

 

Last I checked, there was a comic convention in Philly.

 

And which of your gripes with the article casts doubt or provides contradictory evidence to their claims?

 

Yeah i don't see what about this is a scam? They are trying to raise both awareness and safety for all women at comic conventions, and you do that sort of thing WITH comics and at such conventions.

 

Why exactly is it a bad thing? Promoting new, social change in the attitude of the convention folk is a welcome thing - especially if they took the time to craft it into a story that can be given out as a comic.

You see it as fair this group attack Craig Ferguson?

He's a comedian. His “vaguely slutty” comment was delivered for laughs, without a hint of vitriol or condemnation. It's what comedians do. But taken out of context it fits their agenda.

 

Do you think it fair this group attack Dwayne Johnson because "10 women in belly-baring outfits stood silently in front of the stage for no apparent reason" before his appearance?

It's been market-researched to death that BOTH men and women enjoy seeing attractive women. So where's the offense? Nowhere. But it fits their agenda to complain.

 

Do you think it fair this group demands the onus be put on San Diego Comic-Con?

SDCC felt compelled to address the issue and clarify "Comic-Con has an explicit Code of Conduct that addresses harassing and offensive behavior," said Comic-Con International."

 

Oh, but that's not good enough for the group's agenda.

"Geeks for CONsent wants the 45-year-old convention to adopt a clearly stated policy and says staff members should to be trained to handle sexual harassment complaints."

 

How it that fair? Who's going to pay for the training? Who's going to pay for the law suits? Con volunteers going to police academy first? By what authority will they "handle" alleged criminal conduct?

 

Do you think it fair the AP used group cosplayer photos of people who said they were never harassed and did not give consent to be used for illustrating harassment-victims?

 

 

[october]

Just because I like to dress nice each day does NOT mean I want my photograph taken, nor does it apply to a setting where girls are finally comfortable expressing their love of characters by dressing up. The expression of the fandom does not imply a consent to anything else you think you are entitled too.

Yeah, it sucks to be a woman in modern society. I'd rather be dead myself

 

[PIR8]

I have only chauvinistic things to add, but it rhymes with don't dress like a "slut" if you don't want the attention.

 

Just curious... Would you feel that way if their were roaming bands of big homosexual bikers running around sexually harassing guys at the park playing shirts and skins basketball?

 

I don't feel like the issue would be looked at the way you see it if we were the ones actually dealing with these problems. It's really easy to tell other people to adjust themselves in order to avoid harassment, but it's a very demeaning thing to do.

[Sauce Dog]

This thread is maddening. Why doesn't anyone notice the SCAM aspect of the article?

 

Pulled from the article to break it down:

 

"Geeks for CONsent, founded by three women from Philadelphia..."

 

Ok, three, that's 3, women from Philly. And how many attendees at SDCC?

 

"gathered nearly 2,600 signatures on an online petition supporting a formal anti-harassment policy at Comic-Con."

 

Was that before or after they actually WENT to SDCC?

 

"...to help end public harassment against women and members of the LGBT community. She and her colleagues developed a comic book on the subject in hopes of engaging middle- and high-school students, which is what brought them to Comic-Con."

 

So maybe, just maybe, a teeny enterprise saw an opportunity to SCAM Comic-Con and it's 100+ thousands of attendees to gain attention for themselves? And maybe, just maybe, the Associated Press stepped right in it because, well, politically correct nonsense is a headline du jour?

 

Cool way to pimp a COMIC BOOK. Maybe at the expense of everyone else at Comic-Con, but oh well.

 

That would be an excellent point, if they were the only people complaining. How many of the 2600 people who signed were comicon attendees? How do you know those women don't attend SDCC? How do you know they don't attend other conventions?

 

Last I checked, there was a comic convention in Philly.

 

And which of your gripes with the article casts doubt or provides contradictory evidence to their claims?

 

Yeah i don't see what about this is a scam? They are trying to raise both awareness and safety for all women at comic conventions, and you do that sort of thing WITH comics and at such conventions.

 

Why exactly is it a bad thing? Promoting new, social change in the attitude of the convention folk is a welcome thing - especially if they took the time to craft it into a story that can be given out as a comic.

You see it as fair this group attack Craig Ferguson?

He's a comedian. His “vaguely slutty” comment was delivered for laughs, without a hint of vitriol or condemnation. It's what comedians do. But taken out of context it fits their agenda.

 

Do you think it fair this group attack Dwayne Johnson because "10 women in belly-baring outfits stood silently in front of the stage for no apparent reason" before his appearance?

It's been market-researched to death that BOTH men and women enjoy seeing attractive women. So where's the offense? Nowhere. But it fits their agenda to complain.

 

Do you think it fair this group demands the onus be put on San Diego Comic-Con?

SDCC felt compelled to address the issue and clarify "Comic-Con has an explicit Code of Conduct that addresses harassing and offensive behavior," said Comic-Con International."

 

Oh, but that's not good enough for the group's agenda.

"Geeks for CONsent wants the 45-year-old convention to adopt a clearly stated policy and says staff members should to be trained to handle sexual harassment complaints."

 

How it that fair? Who's going to pay for the training? Who's going to pay for the law suits? Con volunteers going to police academy first? By what authority will they "handle" alleged criminal conduct?

 

Do you think it fair the AP used group cosplayer photos of people who said they were never harassed and did not give consent to be used for illustrating harassment-victims?

 

 

None of that makes it a scam, it just makes their methods very confusion and perhaps unnecessary. People can get offended and call out a variety of things as this group has done - but it doesn't make what they are doing a scam.

 

As for them stating '"Geeks for CONsent wants the 45-year-old convention to adopt a clearly stated policy and says staff members should to be trained to handle sexual harassment complaints."

 

why would you be opposed to that? seriously? You have a powder-keg of a convention with a history of harassment issues that are not addressed due to the nature of the hobby (typically a boys club) so why NOT get some more education in the training of staff. They are not talking about deputizing staff members, nor dealing with law suits - just the same hour or so of education businesses often have for their employees at an office.

 

I'm not going to claim to know all the ins-and-outs of setting something like this up (such as costs or government breaks when setting up such a program as we have here), but it isn't anything new for businesses and it sounds like a fair point. Why would a business NOT want to have a clearly stated policy on sexual harassment, especially when it helps reach out to half of the potential audience AND cover its bases when it comes down to future litigation?

[Davenport]

None of that makes it a scam, it just makes their methods very confusion and perhaps unnecessary. People can get offended and call out a variety of things as this group has done - but it doesn't make what they are doing a scam.

 

As for them stating '"Geeks for CONsent wants the 45-year-old convention to adopt a clearly stated policy and says staff members should to be trained to handle sexual harassment complaints."

 

why would you be opposed to that? seriously? You have a powder-keg of a convention with a history of harassment issues that are not addressed due to the nature of the hobby (typically a boys club) so why NOT get some more education in the training of staff. They are not talking about deputizing staff members, nor dealing with law suits - just the same hour or so of education businesses often have for their employees at an office.

 

I'm not going to claim to know all the ins-and-outs of setting something like this up (such as costs or government breaks when setting up such a program as we have here), but it isn't anything new for businesses and it sounds like a fair point. Why would a business NOT want to have a clearly stated policy on sexual harassment, especially when it helps reach out to half of the potential audience AND cover its bases when it comes down to future litigation?

Personally I think what you stated is a myth: "You have a powder-keg of a convention with a history of harassment issues" . Really? Based on what evidence?

 

And I don't know what level of training SDCC security and staff get or not get. I'd assume they get an overview of SDCC's policies, tolerances, and how to react.

 

San Diego Comic Con has 130,000+ attendees. Sells out quickly every time. More cosplay every year. If it were a "powder-keg" with a "history of harassment" I think cosplay attendance would either fall off or SDCC would address it more forcefully. Or both.

 

And, above all, I think it's SOP in today's world for teeny agenda-orgs to target huge enterprises for instant press and notoriety. That's what I think this is.

 

 

 

 

[cf02cf03]

Davenport- It's awesome to know that someone gets what's really going on. You pretty much nailed it in your posts throughout this thread, so I have nothing to add but - kudos!

[Sauce Dog]

San Diego Comic Con has 130,000+ attendees. Sells out quickly every time. More cosplay every year. If it were a "powder-keg" with a "history of harassment" I think cosplay attendance would either fall off or SDCC would address it more forcefully. Or both.

 

 

Okay final rant, but not necessarily at you Davenport, i just need to get it out - i think you are right on the money with much of this.

 

That is the main thing i wanted to focus on. Yes attendance is growing, in 2012 it was up to 40% women which is a great sign of more people becoming interested in these hobbies.

 

With more women now attending who won't stand for any form of harassment we are now hearing about such things better than ever. This awareness is important and was not possible in the past due to the low amount of women attending conventions and most importantly due to the vague policies in place - many things were not considered harassment and thus are not reported, shrugged off and ignored, or sometimes encouraged via silent procedure. This is why it makes quantifying the numbers harder for past shows but at least now we are getting an idea of the problem.

 

The SDCC harassment policy is currently vague and groups such as this only want it to be stated in clearer terms what constitutes harassment. Very black and white but very important. Evolution of any policy to better reflect and protect people is never a bad thing, which I think we can all agree on.

 

By better defining WHAT is harassment people can feel safer in knowing there is a venue that acknowledges their issue and they can feel confident that what has happened to them ins't acceptable by any means. Many women I know who have attended cons simply did not feel they could report something (even something such a groping or rape threats) because it was shrugged off as an everyday occurrence. This has happened to many people I know both at SDCC and other cons, so I do feel they are not addressing the issue anywhere close to what they should be.

 

I only say 'powder-keg' as for any organization who is increasing in size, if policies are not updated to match the growing audience then it really is only a matter of time before harassment leads to something even more severe than what is happening now. If they don't establish what is wrong or right and stand firm behind that then it will just continue.

 

I know many people think this is a new thing but problems like this are an everyday issue in many areas of life, and I just want to do whatever is possible to help let others know that it is something we can change.

 

Not everyone wants to hear about the problem existing but once they do hear about it is very hard to process and the education is key, let's just get people talking so they know the real extent of the problem (hell, try telling any father that his daughter has a 1 of 4 chance of being sexually assaulted by the time they are 18 years old; and Girls and young women between the ages of 16-24 are the most likely victims and 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims sexual assault which is one of the areas there is more attendance growth for cons thanks to many new movies and creative properties, hence a powder-keg - no one wants to hear that, it's terrifying!)

 

 

And, above all, I think it's SOP in today's world for teeny agenda-orgs to target huge enterprises for instant press and notoriety. That's what I think this is.

 

 

Yeah that is pretty much standard these days and is kinda sad to see such an abuse of marketing / press. In this case I feel they really do need all the help they can muster getting the word out since it is for a good cause and regarding a positive social change. I rather someone like this get sensational press then just some other company trying to push a new product (such as Ouya during a previous E3 con). Sometimes it really is a david vs goliath situation so hopefully some good comes of this and it doesn't turn sour.

 

 

 

 

Okay no more rants from me I think everyone here is on the same page of NOT wanting this kind of harassment to occur, we just all have to figure out a way to address the best way of going about it

 

 

[Davenport]

(thumbs u

 

Personally I think the 'target-cry-wolf-get press' tactic is highly effective, but can ultimately harm legitimate causes when overplayed (like they just did).

 

They'd do better fostering and promoting a 'See Something, Say Something" mindset among Con attendees. Thank SDCC for providing security. Thank the city of San Diego for providing police. Work to counter bad behaviors with diligent behaviors in huge numbers.

[Dr. Balls]

They'd do better fostering and promoting a 'See Something, Say Something" mindset among Con attendees. Thank SDCC for providing security. Thank the city of San Diego for providing police. Work to counter bad behaviors with diligent behaviors in huge numbers.

 

I agree. The "See Something, Say Something" campaign worked for NYC, didn't it? I think that is an effective way to change the overall mentality of the majority of con goers. I mean, these things don't happen in a year - it takes a long time of slow perserverence - and getting attendees to participate in reporting things they see would be a great way to stem the philosophy of "If it's shiny, I can touch it."

[Sauce Dog]

They'd do better fostering and promoting a 'See Something, Say Something" mindset among Con attendees. Thank SDCC for providing security. Thank the city of San Diego for providing police. Work to counter bad behaviors with diligent behaviors in huge numbers.

 

I agree. The "See Something, Say Something" campaign worked for NYC, didn't it? I think that is an effective way to change the overall mentality of the majority of con goers. I mean, these things don't happen in a year - it takes a long time of slow perserverence - and getting attendees to participate in reporting things they see would be a great way to stem the philosophy of "If it's shiny, I can touch it."

 

That would be a great start to it, in fact most people (if not all) would speak up when they saw something wrong if they knew that it would make a difference. The only gap left to fill towards making this effective is the fact that many people don't know whether what they just saw or heard was wrong due to there not being any real solid / policy in place (I had a friend who had her butt grabbed but "laughed" it off because the grabber was a much bigger male and she didn't know how to respond, since she laughed (uncomfortably) her only other witness to it thought she was okay with it so it was never reported when she eventually spoke to him about it)

 

I like the direction Emerald City Con started to go with putting up posters that helped.

 

 

 

[Crimebuster]

Just saw this article. Is this a big problem at Comic Con and other major cons?

 

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/sexual-harassment-at-comic-con-in-the-spotlight-93048198212.html

 

 

You mean like this?

 

http://laist.com/2014/07/29/man_arrested_in_teens_beating_at_co.php

 

 

A man has been arrested in the case of a teenage cosplayer at Comic-Con who was discovered "unconscious and bloody" on the side of the road early Sunday morning.

 

A friend posted a message from the mother of the victim on Tumblr, asking for help finding out what happened to her daughter (we have redacted any identifying information since the girl is a teen and may be the victim of a sexual crime):

 

IF YOU WENT TO SAN DIEGO COMIC CON OR KNOW ANYONE WHO HAS, PLEASE READ.

 

One of my dearest friends was found on the side of the road, unconscious and bloody. She was wearing this cosplay on the day it happened. She was last seen with friends when she ran off after a disagreement. Please, please, please, if you have ANY information or saw her anywhere, contact her mother. The full information is down below. This isn’t okay and it’s sickening to know that this happened at a place people truly can enjoy themselves. Please spread the word.

 

”I just received a call from the San Diego Police Department and my daughter [redacted] aka [redacted] was found on the side of the road covered in blood with no ID unconscious. They are unsure what happened to her. My husband is on his way to the police station and then the hospital. If you have any information on what happened to her please send me a facebook message or call me at [redacted]. Thank you in advance”. -[Mother's name redacted]

 

The alleged crime happened at 1:15 a.m. on Sunday morning. San Diego Harbor Police say they have arrested a 29-year-old man in this case, and he is being charged with "sexual contact with a minor and contributing to the delinquency of minor." The man was arrested at the Marriott, where Comic-Con is held, and he was booked into the San Diego County jail at 11:20 a.m. later that morning.

 

The victim was transported to a hospital for evaluation and treatment. The San Diego Harbor Police Investigations Unit is investigating the case.

[Davenport]

There's already a long thread here.

[Sauce Dog]

Thought I would share this though not specifically relating to Comic Con it is nonetheless excellent reading on the matter of sexism/harassment.

 

the dos & don'ts to combat sexism

 

Top links are for an online comic and another outline some very clear dos & don'ts when dealing with it, which is always good to know if you ever need to offer support to someone that has been a target.

[OrangeNemesis]

I constantly get harassed at cons by women and I don't wear a costume..... Stop the insanity!!

[BadGirlComicArt]

cf02cf03 is a shill bidder go to the Probation thread for the latest on this rat-shill bidder! Enjoy!!

 

PS - I was at SDCC this year...great event never any problems or fights as usual (and I've been to 8 of them)

[Ares]

cf02cf03 is a shill bidder go to the Probation thread for the latest on this rat-shill bidder! Enjoy!!

 

PS - I was at SDCC this year...great event never any problems or fights as usual (and I've been to 8 of them)