Would never post a topic:

[vaillant]

Heck my students alone would practically disprove that statistic.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/06/illiteracy-rate_n_3880355.html

 

That’s what I meant!

 

And I wonder why it lists percentages of "atheists" under "religion" in some countries but not in USA.

[kav]

Wikipedia says 99% but I have to agree with Chris. Even the ones that can read barely understand what they're reading. Star Testing reading comprehension scores confirm this. Sometimes I would say stuff to the class then ask if they knew what various common words I said meant. Nope. Teenagers understand maybe 80% of what adults say. They dont seem to know what words like confirm, resolve, abate, reflect etc mean.

If I say 'You should reflect on what a person says so you can confirm and resolve the issue' they have no idea what I'm saying.

[vaillant]

The USA are frightening today… not just the USA but I think here it’s a bit better, although quality of teaching started to go downhill years ago…

 

My comment was because I recall my relative which hosted me when I visited Los Angeles in 1991 told me something about illiteracy and analfabetism (also due to immigration). I guess nowadays is similar in many country, also because of the problems you have to address in teaching because of immigration.

Up to the 1990s we had very little immigration in Italy.

[jaybuck43]

My guess is CIA Factbook is very liberal with the definition of literacy? I just checked that because its my go to for country statistics. I will totally accept a lower number.

[vaillant]

Well, statistics (be them on paper or on the internet) remain statistics, so they should be taken with a grain of salt.

[kav]

The USA are frightening today… not just the USA but I think here it’s a bit better, although quality of teaching started to go downhill years ago…

 

My comment was because I recall my relative which hosted me when I visited Los Angeles in 1991 told me something about illiteracy and analfabetism (also due to immigration). I guess nowadays is similar in many country, also because of the problems you have to address in teaching because of immigration.

Up to the 1990s we had very little immigration in Italy.

It's not the teaching it's the parents.

Asian students with strict parents have no problem excelling.

Giving your child a cell phone so they can easily distract themself in class-that's just stupid-but every parent does it.

[vaillant]

The USA are frightening today… not just the USA but I think here it’s a bit better, although quality of teaching started to go downhill years ago…

 

My comment was because I recall my relative which hosted me when I visited Los Angeles in 1991 told me something about illiteracy and analfabetism (also due to immigration). I guess nowadays is similar in many country, also because of the problems you have to address in teaching because of immigration.

Up to the 1990s we had very little immigration in Italy.

It's not the teaching it's the parents.

Asian students with strict parents have no problem excelling.

Giving your child a cell phone so they can easily distract themself in class-that's just stupid-but every parent does it.

 

I do agree, but to some degree it‘s also the teaching quality – I speak often with sons and daugthers of my friends and what they tell about teaching and teachers often is quite baffling.

 

On my part, I would not even let children use internet, but nonsense is prevailing.

[dupont2005]

I had this conversation with my mother after purchasing a rather large Silver Age collection. I offered a fair offer to the guy who sold it to me. He knew nothing about the books at all. After my mother asked what I paid she said, "why did you offer so much, I'm sure he would have taken less?" My response was "I'm sure but I just wouldn't have felt right". She did bring up an excellent point though. 15 years ago there was no easy way to check the value of an antique you were selling (i.e. your father's comic collection) but today with the internet, it takes about 5 seconds to go on eBay and type in Amazing Fantasy 15 and get a ball park idea of what the book goes for (of course if you have a 1.0 copy and are asking $125,000 for it, well that's what Pawn Stars is for ) So if you go to a garage sale and pay $10 for an Action Comics #1 you shouldn't feel bad because there is no reason anyone shouldn't have SOME idea of what the book is worth.

You assume everyone is literate and has a computer.

 

The United States has a 99% literacy rate so yes I do assume that everyone is literate (or knows someone who is). And I assume that everyone has ACCESS to a computer, not that they necessarily own them. Almost all libraries in the US have computers that allow for web surfing, including courses for seniors on how to go on the Internet. So I think it is fair to assume that they can access a computer.

I think your literacy figure has been covered. We're also talking about comics from the 40's and 50's, while literacy rates haven't changed in the past ten years, if someone old enough to have had OO golden age comics, they're probably of the older generation. This is just my own perspective here, but my grandfather was a child of the depression. He quit school to work at a very young age. He knows how to read and write just barely, enough to fill out a job appliction, not enough to read a novel and comprehend it. Googling things is not his specialty.

 

Now, assuming the person is literate, not everyone has access to computers. This is one of those perspectives of privilege that I see a lot online. I come from a city where the per capita income is ten thousand dollars a year. A lot of the residents have never, EVER, touched a computer in their lives. By the way, want to guess the literacy rate of a sanctuary city where just about everyone over the age of fifty doesn't even speak English and the per capita income is ten grand? It's a bit lower than 99% I'm sure.

 

Think back to the first time you used a computer, were you an expert in the operation of the internet?

 

I would assume when I'm at a yard sale and someone has a million dollar comic collection for sale for $50 that they probably don't have the means to price check things. By "the means" I mean mostly literacy, computer literacy, and experience using eBay.

 

There's no law against the philosophy that all's fair in comics and war, and that as long as you don't explicitly commit fraud you're all good, but I disagree. Not everything that is legal is right. Towing the line in the darkest grey of grey areas and just barely not breaking any laws is a practice I see often in life, and I avoid those types of people like the plague.

[vaillant]

As said, it‘s not about committing fraud, but about being honest.

If there is no malice involved, whatever choice works.

 

As for the computers: there are younger people which do not care to use them or have internet access, for that matter, while there are 80 years old excelling at it, so it’s also a question of attitude and if you are interested to do so.

Personally, I am rather disturbed when one assumes an old person must have an internet connection or whatever. I do not use cell phones but I have seen how internet has deformed the perception of things in about ten years.

[dupont2005]

I know people who don't have electricity or water, so I tend to not assume they're masters of eBay and Google.

[kav]

The USA are frightening today… not just the USA but I think here it’s a bit better, although quality of teaching started to go downhill years ago…

 

My comment was because I recall my relative which hosted me when I visited Los Angeles in 1991 told me something about illiteracy and analfabetism (also due to immigration). I guess nowadays is similar in many country, also because of the problems you have to address in teaching because of immigration.

Up to the 1990s we had very little immigration in Italy.

It's not the teaching it's the parents.

Asian students with strict parents have no problem excelling.

Giving your child a cell phone so they can easily distract themself in class-that's just stupid-but every parent does it.

 

I do agree, but to some degree it‘s also the teaching quality – I speak often with sons and daugthers of my friends and what they tell about teaching and teachers often is quite baffling.

 

On my part, I would not even let children use internet, but nonsense is prevailing.

There's definitely horrible teachers-maybe 8% the rest do a pretty dang good job

I taught one class where the AP students were on strike cause the teacher's assignments made no sense,

I read her lesson plans-they made no sense.

[vaillant]

This thread is getting good…

[kav]

One special ed teacher's board was filled with misspellings-I know dang well she had to have had someone else take the CBEST for her-no way she could have passed the spelling portion...and she's teaching special ed....

[jaybuck43]

I understand your point about literacy. You're describing "functional illeterates". I can understand that and we can factor it in sure. As to my sophistication and use of the internet, well I'm not a good example. I was taught how to program in Dos and Basic when I was 2/3 years old because of my father (we had an old IBM 286 at the time. I think it's still in the attic somewhere. ) So yea I was dialing into forums and BBS systems before I was even in school. But yes the vast majority of people in the US probably weren't "online" before 1994. So again, I'm a bad example for this.

 

I'm the opposite of you though. If there is a price on it, then I am assuming s/he DOES have the ability to price check things, they priced it after all. Even if it is something insane like an Action 1 for $50. If there is no price (i.e. someone calls me and says they have a collection for sale), then I will be open and honest with them, explain what they have, explain how prices work, the amount of work that needs to be done to realize that price, the checking etc then I'll make him/her a fair offer based off that and hope they accept it.

 

If you walked into an LCS and they had a hot book priced at guide (which is say 10x less then what it's going for on eBay) are you going to pull the book and say to the owner "Hey this book is going for $200 on eBay, you've got it listed for $20, i'd like to pay the $200" Or are you going to hand him the book and a $20 and say thanks and walk out?

[october]

I had this conversation with my mother after purchasing a rather large Silver Age collection. I offered a fair offer to the guy who sold it to me. He knew nothing about the books at all. After my mother asked what I paid she said, "why did you offer so much, I'm sure he would have taken less?" My response was "I'm sure but I just wouldn't have felt right". She did bring up an excellent point though. 15 years ago there was no easy way to check the value of an antique you were selling (i.e. your father's comic collection) but today with the internet, it takes about 5 seconds to go on eBay and type in Amazing Fantasy 15 and get a ball park idea of what the book goes for (of course if you have a 1.0 copy and are asking $125,000 for it, well that's what Pawn Stars is for ) So if you go to a garage sale and pay $10 for an Action Comics #1 you shouldn't feel bad because there is no reason anyone shouldn't have SOME idea of what the book is worth.

You assume everyone is literate and has a computer.

 

The United States has a 99% literacy rate so yes I do assume that everyone is literate (or knows someone who is). And I assume that everyone has ACCESS to a computer, not that they necessarily own them. Almost all libraries in the US have computers that allow for web surfing, including courses for seniors on how to go on the Internet. So I think it is fair to assume that they can access a computer.

I think your literacy figure has been covered. We're also talking about comics from the 40's and 50's, while literacy rates haven't changed in the past ten years, if someone old enough to have had OO golden age comics, they're probably of the older generation. This is just my own perspective here, but my grandfather was a child of the depression. He quit school to work at a very young age. He knows how to read and write just barely, enough to fill out a job appliction, not enough to read a novel and comprehend it. Googling things is not his specialty.

 

Now, assuming the person is literate, not everyone has access to computers. This is one of those perspectives of privilege that I see a lot online. I come from a city where the per capita income is ten thousand dollars a year. A lot of the residents have never, EVER, touched a computer in their lives. By the way, want to guess the literacy rate of a sanctuary city where just about everyone over the age of fifty doesn't even speak English and the per capita income is ten grand? It's a bit lower than 99% I'm sure.

 

Think back to the first time you used a computer, were you an expert in the operation of the internet?

 

I would assume when I'm at a yard sale and someone has a million dollar comic collection for sale for $50 that they probably don't have the means to price check things. By "the means" I mean mostly literacy, computer literacy, and experience using eBay.

 

There's no law against the philosophy that all's fair in comics and war, and that as long as you don't explicitly commit fraud you're all good, but I disagree. Not everything that is legal is right. Towing the line in the darkest grey of grey areas and just barely not breaking any laws is a practice I see often in life, and I avoid those types of people like the plague.

 

So now you are on to finding million dollar collections for $50 from illiterate yard salers who lack internet access? Moral indignation is usually best saved for scenarios that actually have a chance of happening.

 

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

The USA are frightening today… not just the USA but I think here it’s a bit better, although quality of teaching started to go downhill years ago…

 

My comment was because I recall my relative which hosted me when I visited Los Angeles in 1991 told me something about illiteracy and analfabetism (also due to immigration). I guess nowadays is similar in many country, also because of the problems you have to address in teaching because of immigration.

Up to the 1990s we had very little immigration in Italy.

It's not the teaching it's the parents.

Asian students with strict parents have no problem excelling.

Giving your child a cell phone so they can easily distract themself in class-that's just stupid-but every parent does it.

 

I do agree, but to some degree it‘s also the teaching quality – I speak often with sons and daugthers of my friends and what they tell about teaching and teachers often is quite baffling.

 

On my part, I would not even let children use internet, but nonsense is prevailing.

 

Do you mean in your country or all countries?

 

What you forget is that we educate all kids in our country until they are 18 for free, and some can go to school longer. You also forget that times are changing drastically. What entertained kids or kept their attention 10, 20, and 30 years ago is drastically different. They have the internet at their fingertips and absorb most of their information through the internet. While on the flip side, you have teachers and educators of a drastically different generation trying to catch up. I'm 29 and amazed by the technology my students have. It is also baffling that they can show me how to change the settings on phone to do this and that, but they have no idea how to google something or do something simple on the computer.

 

You also forget that in our country the education system is poorly funded and more political that it ever should be. We have a politician come in office for 4 or 8 years and come up with a system or strategy, but they are long gone before it ever even trickles down to the school level. Heck President Obama put a bunch of money in to public education in his first few years, and we are barely seeing that money at the school level.

 

You also make generalizations about educators that aren't appreciated. We work our asses off and get very little appreciation. I work in a school where on average I have 1 or 2 parents at back to school night and parent/teacher night. That is a high number too. Like Kav said, parental support is huge, and when you have students disappear in jail for a quarter it is a bit hard to get them caught up when they return.

 

Please don't lump educators in to some idea you have in your head. It isn't fair and it isn't true. Come walk a mile in our shoes first.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

One special ed teacher's board was filled with misspellings-I know dang well she had to have had someone else take the CBEST for her-no way she could have passed the spelling portion…and she's teaching special ed....

 

But you ignore the many hats a special educator has to wear. They are expected to be in classes, in IEP meetings, doing professional development, and drafting IEPs. It is a lot of work and sometimes things slide through the system.

[dupont2005]

So now you are on to finding million dollar collections for $50 from illiterate yard salers who lack internet access? Moral indignation is usually best saved for scenarios that actually have a chance of happening.

 

This entire discussion is about finding valuable comics obscenely underpriced at yard sales.

 

If I'm at a sale in which a random person invites complete strangers onto their property to root through their old Levi's and baby toys, I already assume the person isn't wealthy.

 

I agree, the chance of finding an Action #1 at a yard sale is slim to none, but the discussion is about that. Assuming that happens, I think taking it without informing the seller of it's value is wrong. And there happens to be countless people in this hobby hoping and dreaming that exactly that happens to them. Answering Craigslist ads, placing ads themselves, traveling all over the city, state, country, and continent looking at collections hoping that Action #1 can be had for five hundred bucks.

 

If we can only discuss things that are likely to happen, I guess we can't discuss comics anymore huh?

[kav]

Hey Chris do you see the kids who goofed off all through HS walking away after learning they didnt pass the exit exam and will not graduate sniffling to themselves? I see a lot of that.

I also see a lot of students with F's on the last week of school asking how they can get caught up and get a C....

[vaillant]

I was obvioulsy talking about Italy, as I cannot have no clue about other countries, and I am sure the majority of teachers take – or strive to take – their job seriously. That goes without saying.

 

My comment was about the premises of teaching, rather a more philosophical problem than how much each teacher puts good effort in his practice. And this vastly differs across cultures…

 

The generic comment about technology stands… because I have seen how it has evolved. I am 45 and thus by mere age I have seen it a bit more than you, said without any presumption or assumption. I have been using a computer since 1984 or so…