Dealer changing the price

[mysterio]

I don't see a contradiction in the two accounts. He simply added more details in the second post...details about what happened after the initial break down in negotiation.

 

The first post was in response to how/when they changed the price on the book because this was the focal point of the entire thread. That

 

The second post is more or less not germane to the point of the thread, but it did show that the OP didn't post the whole story...which is possibly why it was added later.

 

That's what I got out of it.

 

 

I agree that the stories don't contradict each other, but the fact that the complete story had to evolve later just makes me wonder what else was left out of the formerly complete story...

 

The lingering question I have is much the same as Buzzetta. What was the timing of all this? Frankly I'm of the opinion that even if Venom walked away from the table after being quoted a price that he'd have a reasonable expectation that that would still be the price when he came back 10-15 minutes later. If I were the dealer I may raise the price to everyone else, but if a buyer got quoted a price then that buyer should be able to have a reasonable expectation that that price is the price. Otherwise why would the dealer quote a price in the first place?

[VintageComics]

Roy - don't answer this because it puts you on the spot. The more I look at it, the more it seems that Venom never really left. He was standing around waiting for a response of if he did leave it was while he was waiting for one dealer to talk to the other.

 

You would not have initially have handled this the way Montreal did.

 

There's nothing that puts me on the spot. I think almost everyone knows how I would handle a similar situation. I would have no problem keeping the price or following through with the sale upon initial offer and I would also have no problem changing price if the customer passed on the book and left the booth.

 

I think this is where 'he said / she said' really makes the chain of events muddy.

 

Venom's inital account is not complete and MCC contradicts Venom's subsequent additions to the account. Honestly, unless both sides agree, it's tough to know exactly what happened.

[romanheart]

I agree with the last few posts and I would add MCC pretty much admitted he changed the sell price (during, or on the same day) and felt he needed to defend his right to change the price on here. Legally, yes he can do so, but ethically, a lot of us on the boards do not approve of the behaviour.

 

If I was Venom, I would have walked away and complained as he did on here, or to the organizers.

[VintageComics]

I don't see a contradiction in the two accounts. He simply added more details in the second post...details about what happened after the initial break down in negotiation.

 

The first post was in response to how/when they changed the price on the book because this was the focal point of the entire thread. That

 

The second post is more or less not germane to the point of the thread, but it did show that the OP didn't post the whole story...which is possibly why it was added later.

 

That's what I got out of it.

 

 

I agree that the stories don't contradict each other, but the fact that the complete story had to evolve later just makes me wonder what else was left out of the formerly complete story...

 

The lingering question I have is much the same as Buzzetta. What was the timing of all this? Frankly I'm of the opinion that even if Venom walked away from the table after being quoted a price that he'd have a reasonable expectation that that would still be the price when he came back 10-15 minutes later. If I were the dealer I may raise the price to everyone else, but if a buyer got quoted a price then that buyer should be able to have a reasonable expectation that that price is the price. Otherwise why would the dealer quote a price in the first place?

 

I would say that unless there is an agreement to put the book aside, as Bob said, the quoted price is valid for that customer at that time. Do you know how many people ask a quote, say 'I'll be back' and then never come back? Most if them

 

It's really a tricky scenario because some comics become so volatile in a short period of time it really is becoming impossible to stay on top of it all if you have a large inventory.

 

Carbonaro was running around SD buying up every copy of FF whatever (1st Ronan) because he had heard about the Guardians movie. He literally cleaned out the room.

 

If you were sitting on a few issues, and were a dealer, what would you do when you got wind of the news?

[wombat]

I don't have an issue if a dealer wants to reprice his comics outside of a negotiation. You snooze you lose.

[vane]

I'm going to agree with Venom on this one.

 

After following this thread for a couple days, some are looking to find any little bit of discrepancy of Venom's claim to justify Major Comics actions.

 

I'm going to be facetious here...

 

Venom turned his head - Nope the price changed.

Venom went to the restroom and came back - The price changed.

Venom closed his eyes for a second - The current price we agreed on is no longer valid.

Venom added more to his story - The price is now $800.

[mysterio]

I don't see a contradiction in the two accounts. He simply added more details in the second post...details about what happened after the initial break down in negotiation.

 

The first post was in response to how/when they changed the price on the book because this was the focal point of the entire thread. That

 

The second post is more or less not germane to the point of the thread, but it did show that the OP didn't post the whole story...which is possibly why it was added later.

 

That's what I got out of it.

 

 

I agree that the stories don't contradict each other, but the fact that the complete story had to evolve later just makes me wonder what else was left out of the formerly complete story...

 

The lingering question I have is much the same as Buzzetta. What was the timing of all this? Frankly I'm of the opinion that even if Venom walked away from the table after being quoted a price that he'd have a reasonable expectation that that would still be the price when he came back 10-15 minutes later. If I were the dealer I may raise the price to everyone else, but if a buyer got quoted a price then that buyer should be able to have a reasonable expectation that that price is the price. Otherwise why would the dealer quote a price in the first place?

 

I would say that unless there is an agreement to put the book aside, as Bob said, the quoted price is valid for that customer at that time. Do you know how many people ask a quote, say 'I'll be back' and then never come back? Most if them

 

It's really a tricky scenario because some comics become so volatile in a short period of time it really is becoming impossible to stay on top of it all if you have a large inventory.

 

Carbonaro was running around SD buying up every copy of FF whatever (1st Ronan) because he had heard about the Guardians movie. He literally cleaned out the room.

 

If you were sitting on a few issues, and were a dealer, what would you do when you got wind of the news?

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said. It is a tricky situation. But this isn't a case of a tire kicker getting a price and then never coming back. I have much more limited experience selling at a show then you do, as most of us would, but I think we'd all agree that there is a difference between this scenario and a random disappearing tire kicker.

 

At our last show I had a guy put a $10 book on hold because he had to "run to an ATM and would be right back." We've all heard it. I held the book, but another guy who overheard and saw the book also expressed interest if the guy didn't come back. I told this second guy to stop back by at the end of the show, and he could have the book if ATM guy didn't come back. Three hours later there was no sign of ATM guy and the second buyer came back, so he got the book. I don't feel one bit bad about that, and if ATM guy had come back after the second buyer I would have told him that a hold for an ATM is not forever.

 

As for the Venom situation, this is not a disappearing tire kicker, and nobody expects prices to stay static indefinitely. But if I'd visited a dealer at Chicago who told me a book was $300 and we had a prolonged chat about it that included an unsuccessful negotiation, I'd certainly expect that that quoted price of $300 was still valid if I went back 10-15 minutes later. That's just good business. Like I said, raise the price for the masses who hadn't inquired about it, but don't shaft someone you've quoted the $300 price to a short time ago.

 

As for your Carbonaro example, if he hadn't gotten a price from you half an hour prior, how is that example germane to this discussion?

[Davenport]

Carbonaro was running around SD buying up every copy of FF whatever (1st Ronan) because he had heard about the Guardians movie. He literally cleaned out the room.

 

If you were sitting on a few issues, and were a dealer, what would you do when you got wind of the news?

Way out here in the cheap seats some of the angst isn't making sense.

 

Dealer buys at X and sells at X+. So if speculation is occurring isn't that a chance to sell? While it may be great to suddenly sell an issue at X++++, volatility catching a dealer off guard shouldn't be the end of the world, right? It's still sold and at a profit.

 

Otherwise dealers would never stock a hot issue ever again. But they do. They buy at X and sell at X+. So even if the 'new X' is higher than the last one sold for, even just 10 minutes later, selling at X+ keeps them in the game, their stock flowing.

 

Or no?

[romanheart]

Carbonaro was running around SD buying up every copy of FF whatever (1st Ronan) because he had heard about the Guardians movie. He literally cleaned out the room.

 

If you were sitting on a few issues, and were a dealer, what would you do when you got wind of the news?

Way out here in the cheap seats some of the angst isn't making sense.

 

Dealer buys at X and sells at X+. So if speculation is occurring isn't that a chance to sell? While it may be great to suddenly sell an issue at X++++, volatility catching a dealer off guard shouldn't be the end of the world, right? It's still sold and at a profit.

 

Otherwise dealers would never stock a hot issue ever again. But they do. They buy at X and sell at X+. So even if the "new X' is higher than the last one sold for, even just 10 minutes later, selling at X+ keeps them in the game, their stock flowing.

 

Or no?

 

I think you mean if he sold at $300, he probably would have profited anyway because he surely received the book for less or he would have never priced it at $300 to begin with.

[SquareChaos]

Carbonaro was running around SD buying up every copy of FF whatever (1st Ronan) because he had heard about the Guardians movie. He literally cleaned out the room.

 

If you were sitting on a few issues, and were a dealer, what would you do when you got wind of the news?

Way out here in the cheap seats some of the angst isn't making sense.

 

Dealer buys at X and sells at X+. So if speculation is occurring isn't that a chance to sell? While it may be great to suddenly sell an issue at X++++, volatility catching a dealer off guard shouldn't be the end of the world, right? It's still sold and at a profit.

 

Otherwise dealers would never stock a hot issue ever again. But they do. They buy at X and sell at X+. So even if the "new X' is higher than the last one sold for, even just 10 minutes later, selling at X+ keeps them in the game, their stock flowing.

 

Or no?

 

I think you mean if he sold at $300, he probably would have profited anyway because he surely received the book for less or he would have never priced it at $300 to begin with.

 

I had just assumed this was a given when I was commenting on this thread last night. I think it goes without saying... the only reason anything like this could ever take place is out of an urge to make the most money possible, which is fine in my opinion... but not in the middle of a negotiation.

[VintageComics]

The SD example was simply meant as an example to those who feel a dealer's books should always be accurately priced. Sometimes the market moves before you can sit down and reprice your inventory.

 

There is no angst. I leave meat on the bone on many salrs, esp to other dealets.

 

And as for faulting one side or the other? Difficult to do without the whole story corroborating with both accounts.

 

I said from the beginning of the thread that repricing a book during negotiations is a no no. If that's what actually happened, that's not very nice - but how do you prove it?

[Davenport]

Carbonaro was running around SD buying up every copy of FF whatever (1st Ronan) because he had heard about the Guardians movie. He literally cleaned out the room.

 

If you were sitting on a few issues, and were a dealer, what would you do when you got wind of the news?

Way out here in the cheap seats some of the angst isn't making sense.

 

Dealer buys at X and sells at X+. So if speculation is occurring isn't that a chance to sell? While it may be great to suddenly sell an issue at X++++, volatility catching a dealer off guard shouldn't be the end of the world, right? It's still sold and at a profit.

 

Otherwise dealers would never stock a hot issue ever again. But they do. They buy at X and sell at X+. So even if the "new X' is higher than the last one sold for, even just 10 minutes later, selling at X+ keeps them in the game, their stock flowing.

 

Or no?

 

I think you mean if he sold at $300, he probably would have profited anyway because he surely received the book for less or he would have never priced it at $300 to begin with.

Exactly.

All the wall books seen at Cons haven't been with those dealers since the sixties. They sell, re-buy, sell, re-buy continuously. So if they miss out on a sudden "hot potato" what do they care? Sell at $300 and make that profit. But it back at $500 and profit again. And again. And again.

Right?

[mysterio]

Carbonaro was running around SD buying up every copy of FF whatever (1st Ronan) because he had heard about the Guardians movie. He literally cleaned out the room.

 

If you were sitting on a few issues, and were a dealer, what would you do when you got wind of the news?

Way out here in the cheap seats some of the angst isn't making sense.

 

Dealer buys at X and sells at X+. So if speculation is occurring isn't that a chance to sell? While it may be great to suddenly sell an issue at X++++, volatility catching a dealer off guard shouldn't be the end of the world, right? It's still sold and at a profit.

 

Otherwise dealers would never stock a hot issue ever again. But they do. They buy at X and sell at X+. So even if the "new X' is higher than the last one sold for, even just 10 minutes later, selling at X+ keeps them in the game, their stock flowing.

 

Or no?

 

I think you mean if he sold at $300, he probably would have profited anyway because he surely received the book for less or he would have never priced it at $300 to begin with.

Exactly.

All the wall books seen at Cons haven't been with those dealers since the sixties. They sell, re-buy, sell, re-buy continuously. So if they miss out on a sudden "hot potato" what do they care? Sell at $300 and make that profit. But it back at $500 and profit again. And again. And again.

Right?

 

Oh, is that how it's done? Why, everyone should be able to do that and become highly successful comic dealers overnight! Eureka!

[Davenport]

Carbonaro was running around SD buying up every copy of FF whatever (1st Ronan) because he had heard about the Guardians movie. He literally cleaned out the room.

 

If you were sitting on a few issues, and were a dealer, what would you do when you got wind of the news?

Way out here in the cheap seats some of the angst isn't making sense.

 

Dealer buys at X and sells at X+. So if speculation is occurring isn't that a chance to sell? While it may be great to suddenly sell an issue at X++++, volatility catching a dealer off guard shouldn't be the end of the world, right? It's still sold and at a profit.

 

Otherwise dealers would never stock a hot issue ever again. But they do. They buy at X and sell at X+. So even if the "new X' is higher than the last one sold for, even just 10 minutes later, selling at X+ keeps them in the game, their stock flowing.

 

Or no?

 

I think you mean if he sold at $300, he probably would have profited anyway because he surely received the book for less or he would have never priced it at $300 to begin with.

Exactly.

All the wall books seen at Cons haven't been with those dealers since the sixties. They sell, re-buy, sell, re-buy continuously. So if they miss out on a sudden "hot potato" what do they care? Sell at $300 and make that profit. But it back at $500 and profit again. And again. And again.

Right?

 

Oh, is that how it's done? Why, everyone should be able to do that and become highly successful comic dealers overnight! Eureka!

Who said anything about "highly successful dealer overnight"?

 

But with hard work, dogged determination, and a willingness to move product and restock quickly, why not? The con dealers you see year after year aren't expecting to retire off one hot book, are they? They're too busy working.

[VintageComics]

Is this a discussion about how much profit is too much profit?

[SquareChaos]

Is this a discussion about how much profit is too much profit?

 

No, it is a thread about expectations and the relationship between comic buyers and dealers.

 

This conversation is more about morality and business ethics.

[mysterio]

Is this a discussion about how much profit is too much profit?

 

No, it is a thread about expectations and the relationship between comic buyers and dealers.

 

This conversation is more about morality and business ethics.

 

I agree, that's the conversation I'm having. Make as much profit as you're able to, nobody is holding a gun to any buyer's head to pay a price (regardless of what Mitch thinks). This is about what a buyer should be able to expect from a seller regarding a stated price, and generally accepted guidelines on what a seller can do with that previously stated price and when.

[Davenport]

Is this a discussion about how much profit is too much profit?

Never mind. Don't worry about it. Just having a hard time understanding dealer angst over being unable to price-bump in real time.

 

Dealers who refuse to price anything until some buyer shows interest isn't playing a 'long game'. They're mainly in touch with their own greed, as opposed to their customer base, their market, and fulfilling needs other than their own. imho.

[VintageComics]

Is this a discussion about how much profit is too much profit?

 

No, it is a thread about expectations and the relationship between comic buyers and dealers.

 

This conversation is more about morality and business ethics.

 

I agree, that's the conversation I'm having. Make as much profit as you're able to, nobody is holding a gun to any buyer's head to pay a price (regardless of what Mitch thinks). This is about what a buyer should be able to expect from a seller regarding a stated price, and generally accepted guidelines on what a seller can do with that previously stated price and when.

 

I agree with both you.

 

That's why I was being sarcastic with Davenport, who is talking about something completely different.

 

 

[Artboy99]

I don't see a contradiction in the two accounts. He simply added more details in the second post...details about what happened after the initial break down in negotiation.

 

The first post was in response to how/when they changed the price on the book because this was the focal point of the entire thread. That

 

The second post is more or less not germane to the point of the thread, but it did show that the OP didn't post the whole story...which is possibly why it was added later.

 

That's what I got out of it.

 

 

I agree that the stories don't contradict each other, but the fact that the complete story had to evolve later just makes me wonder what else was left out of the formerly complete story...

 

The lingering question I have is much the same as Buzzetta. What was the timing of all this? Frankly I'm of the opinion that even if Venom walked away from the table after being quoted a price that he'd have a reasonable expectation that that would still be the price when he came back 10-15 minutes later. If I were the dealer I may raise the price to everyone else, but if a buyer got quoted a price then that buyer should be able to have a reasonable expectation that that price is the price. Otherwise why would the dealer quote a price in the first place?

 

I would say that unless there is an agreement to put the book aside, as Bob said, the quoted price is valid for that customer at that time. Do you know how many people ask a quote, say 'I'll be back' and then never come back? Most if them

 

It's really a tricky scenario because some comics become so volatile in a short period of time it really is becoming impossible to stay on top of it all if you have a large inventory.

 

Carbonaro was running around SD buying up every copy of FF whatever (1st Ronan) because he had heard about the Guardians movie. He literally cleaned out the room.

 

If you were sitting on a few issues, and were a dealer, what would you do when you got wind of the news?

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said. It is a tricky situation. But this isn't a case of a tire kicker getting a price and then never coming back. I have much more limited experience selling at a show then you do, as most of us would, but I think we'd all agree that there is a difference between this scenario and a random disappearing tire kicker.

 

At our last show I had a guy put a $10 book on hold because he had to "run to an ATM and would be right back." We've all heard it. I held the book, but another guy who overheard and saw the book also expressed interest if the guy didn't come back. I told this second guy to stop back by at the end of the show, and he could have the book if ATM guy didn't come back. Three hours later there was no sign of ATM guy and the second buyer came back, so he got the book. I don't feel one bit bad about that, and if ATM guy had come back after the second buyer I would have told him that a hold for an ATM is not forever.

 

As for the Venom situation, this is not a disappearing tire kicker, and nobody expects prices to stay static indefinitely. But if I'd visited a dealer at Chicago who told me a book was $300 and we had a prolonged chat about it that included an unsuccessful negotiation, I'd certainly expect that that quoted price of $300 was still valid if I went back 10-15 minutes later. That's just good business. Like I said, raise the price for the masses who hadn't inquired about it, but don't shaft someone you've quoted the $300 price to a short time ago.

 

As for your Carbonaro example, if he hadn't gotten a price from you half an hour prior, how is that example germane to this discussion?

 

I have had numerous exchanges like the one you mentioned above. I have had buyers tell me to hold the book that never return. ( LOTS )

I have had potential buyers ask me to hold the book that then return and then have the audacity to offer me half my sticker price. At that point I will no longer sell the book on principle as if you ask me to hold the book that means you intended to purchase it at my sticker price unless we negotiated a price. The lowballer even finally said he would pay the sticker price and I told him I wouldn't sell the book to him. He became very angry but I held my position and I don't feel what I did was wrong. There are circumstances where a dealer shouldn't sell the book at the sticker price.

 

I had Harley Yee come and pull a couple of thousand dollars of mostly very sellable key books from my stock before the first day of the show. He asked me to hold them and he would pay me later. My expectations as a fellow seller is that I would pay him as soon as I got the money. By the end of the second show day he still had not come to pick up his books and pay me nor did he come to keep me up to date as to when he would pay me. I decided on day 3 to make them available again and sold several of the books. Harley finally returned and he was not happy that I didn't keep the books aside, I simply told him that I didn't think he was coming back to which he understood, took all the books that were left and made sure that I understood he always comes back to purchase what he sets aside from fellow dealers.

 

On the reverse: I told a fellow dealer who had a Planet Comics #3 in CGC 7.5 grade that I intended to buy the book from him at the next Calgary show. My plan was to pay him from the sales dollars I generated at the show. Unfortunately for me I had a lousy day 1 and day 2 and I had Harley Yee who had not paid me. I went to the seller at the end of day 2 and told him my unfortunate situation. He had held the book for me for an entire year so I was not that happy with the situation. The seller said "well maybe you will have a great day 3." It is for this reason I put the Harley held books up for sale and as it turns out within 30 minutes of the show opening on the 3rd and final day of the show I had all the money I needed to buy the Planet #3.

 

I don't think I did anything wrong in any of the above mentioned dealings, but ethics isn't necessarily black and white.