Various Killing Joke page prices...

[Jesusjon]

I'm sure I'm not alone in being in the unfortunate position of my "grail" being a *nice* KJ page. God bless you if you locked one down before now.

 

That said I am starting to explore what it would cost to obtain *any* KJ page. I'm sure there is a wide wide gap between Batman/Joker fight pages, solo Joker/solo Batman pages, pages with not much "going on" and then probably the flashback pages. Is there any other book with such a wide disparity in prices on a page to page basis over the entire book? It really depends on what's on that particular page and the horse trading that ensues. I just think it is Bolland at his peak, and it happens to be the book I read over and over again as a kid. Woe is me.

 

I'm sure there are many folks here on the boards who have much more inside knowledge about the private sales going on. Also, I don't know what the recent auction results mean. Does it mean two buyers bought into the "origin of Oracle" argument or does it mean all KJ pages are going crazy pants? I really don't know how to value these pages or what it might cost to obtain one these days.

 

Would anyone like to engage in a discussion of ranges of the different tiers of pages? Speculate on what it all means?

 

I have been reflecting on the concept of "trading up" over time. I figure I have 35 years to trade my way up to my grail, so maybe if I get started now, it might just be possible! It is a bit of a struggle though. I know there is a negative association with flipping art to fundraise, so maybe that is another reason to keep some of your collection offline. Anyhow, now I'm getting off topic!

 

 

[Nexus]

I suspect that any potential KJ sellers will, of course, look to this recent $100K sale as a comp. If you get offered one privately and that's the case, I'd take my chances at auction. Only a small handful of pages would motivate the BSDs of the hobby to go to six figures. As with anything else, if there aren't two BSDs fighting over something, then the playing field is more even for other collectors. That's how I view the other pages.

 

This page sold on HA a couple of years ago (can't believe it's been that long!):

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/brian-bolland-batman-the-killing-joke-page-9-original-art-dc-1988-/a/7059-92038.s

 

A fine page, I like it a lot, and if I didn't already have my example, I would have bid on it. Given what pages had sold for both publicly and privately, this page went for a very favorable price to the buyer. Mostly because it's not an obvious A page that would be bid up by BSDs. I'd look for pages in this range to get the most bang for your buck. Good luck, hope you get one!

[Jesusjon]

Yeah there are pages with even less Joker than that! It is amazing how much certain books/pages have swung in less than 10 years. I still don't know - page 14 - outlier or comp?

 

 

[heartened]

I suspect that any potential KJ sellers will, of course, look to this recent $100K sale as a comp. If you get offered one privately and that's the case, I'd take my chances at auction. Only a small handful of pages would motivate the BSDs of the hobby to go to six figures. As with anything else, if there aren't two BSDs fighting over something, the the playing field is more even for other collectors. That's how I view the other pages.

 

This page sold on HA a couple of years ago (can't believe it's been that long!):

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/brian-bolland-batman-the-killing-joke-page-9-original-art-dc-1988-/a/7059-92038.s

 

A fine page, I like it a lot, and if I didn't already have my example, I would have bid on it. Given what pages had sold for both publicly and privately, this page went for a very favorable price to the buyer. Mostly because it's not an obvious A page that would be bid up by BSDs. I'd look for pages in this range to get the most bang for your buck. Good luck, hope you get one!

 

Agree with Felix. You might say there is a wide range, but honestly the range starts high up and goes into the stratosphere (for panel pages, mind you!). But keep in mind that KJ pages have long been the Holy Grail of modern art in this hobby. When I started, Ditko ASM and Bolland KJ pages were the two most coveted items - period.

 

The page that sold at auction that Felix pointed out, in my opinion, would be double in today's market. That's the low end of the bar for these pages. Then it goes up to the six figures as we'll already seen.

 

Here's my breakdown.

 

Pages with "not much going on", as in no one in costume (Joker, Batman or Red Hood - yes, I consider the Red Hood the third important character here); most of these are flashback pages before he is in Red Hood costume: 35-50K

 

Pages with Batman in costume, no action: 50-60K

 

Pages with Joker in costume, no action: 55-65K

 

Pages with Batman or Joker in costume, action: 60-75K

 

Pages with both Batman and Joker, no action: 75K+

 

Pages with both Batman and Joker, action: Up to 100K

 

Key moments: origin sequence of Joker, Barbara getting shot, half splashes with main characters, finale "joke": the sky's the limit ...... over 100K

 

 

 

[Jesusjon]

Thanks for the thorough analysis, Hari.

 

Scary, but glad I asked because it will take some getting used to that that is the entry point just two years later. On a page like that, I really would want to take my chances at auction and see if it were less. Though I guess I'd be more likely to spend 50K on a no action Batman page than 40K on a Joker flashback page. It all depends on how seller and buyer value the particular page!

 

Time to do some thinking. You can buy some nice examples of art for less than that v. an entry level KJ page. But then again if the idea is to trade up, having that entry level page would be helpful five years from now. Double .

[heartened]

Thanks for the thorough analysis, Hari.

 

Scary, but glad I asked because it will take some getting used to that that is the entry point just two years later. On a page like that, I really would want to take my chances at auction and see if it were less. Though I guess I'd be more likely to spend 50K on a no action Batman page than 40K on a Joker flashback page. It all depends on how seller and buyer value the particular page!

 

Time to do some thinking. You can buy some nice examples of art for less than that v. an entry level KJ page. But then again if the idea is to trade up, having that entry level page would be helpful five years from now. Double .

 

I'd be surprised if auction results were much lower than my estimates at this point. I think this is where we are. But, curious to see what other Bolland fans/experts think on these boards (Joseph, Felix, Chris, etc.).

 

[DocR]

Thanks for the thorough analysis, Hari.

 

Scary, but glad I asked because it will take some getting used to that that is the entry point just two years later. On a page like that, I really would want to take my chances at auction and see if it were less. Though I guess I'd be more likely to spend 50K on a no action Batman page than 40K on a Joker flashback page. It all depends on how seller and buyer value the particular page!

 

Time to do some thinking. You can buy some nice examples of art for less than that v. an entry level KJ page. But then again if the idea is to trade up, having that entry level page would be helpful five years from now. Double .

 

I'd be surprised if auction results were much lower than my estimates at this point. I think this is where we are. But, curious to see what other Bolland fans/experts think on these boards (Joseph, Felix, Chris, etc.).

 

I'm loving this thread. Thanks to OP for starting it. Can't wait to see other's responses.

[comix4fun]

I suspect that any potential KJ sellers will, of course, look to this recent $100K sale as a comp. If you get offered one privately and that's the case, I'd take my chances at auction. Only a small handful of pages would motivate the BSDs of the hobby to go to six figures. As with anything else, if there aren't two BSDs fighting over something, the the playing field is more even for other collectors. That's how I view the other pages.

 

This page sold on HA a couple of years ago (can't believe it's been that long!):

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/brian-bolland-batman-the-killing-joke-page-9-original-art-dc-1988-/a/7059-92038.s

 

A fine page, I like it a lot, and if I didn't already have my example, I would have bid on it. Given what pages had sold for both publicly and privately, this page went for a very favorable price to the buyer. Mostly because it's not an obvious A page that would be bid up by BSDs. I'd look for pages in this range to get the most bang for your buck. Good luck, hope you get one!

 

Agree with Felix. You might say there is a wide range, but honestly the range starts high up and goes into the stratosphere (for panel pages, mind you!). But keep in mind that KJ pages have long been the Holy Grail of modern art in this hobby. When I started, Ditko ASM and Bolland KJ pages were the two most coveted items - period.

 

The page that sold at auction that Felix pointed out, in my opinion, would be double in today's market. That's the low end of the bar for these pages. Then it goes up to the six figures as we'll already seen.

 

Here's my breakdown.

 

Pages with "not much going on", as in no one in costume (Joker, Batman or Red Hood - yes, I consider the Red Hood the third important character here); most of these are flashback pages before he is in Red Hood costume: 35-50K

 

Pages with Batman in costume, no action: 50-60K

 

Pages with Joker in costume, no action: 55-65K

 

Pages with Batman or Joker in costume, action: 60-75K

 

Pages with both Batman and Joker, no action: 75K+

 

Pages with both Batman and Joker, action: Up to 100K

 

Key moments: origin sequence of Joker, Barbara getting shot, half splashes with main characters, finale "joke": the sky's the limit ...... over 100K

 

 

 

 

That's a pretty good breakdown......the wildcard in the "action/no action" or "key sequence" is what I call the "wow panel". Most of the wow panels occur on the top level pages so it doesn't make much of a difference (like Joker with the 2x4 over Batman's head) but those are the panels that make you go "wow, I remember that fondly". Those, I would expect would push the top end of most of the rangers.

 

Of course, with only 48 pages, there are "wows" on almost every page.

[campued1010]

I keep telling myself I will own a page one day. I've waited, asked, inquired and nothing!!!! The search continues, the thrill of the hunt keeps me going. That and the fact when I do get one it will be my holy grail!!!

[bocaratondefense]

Finding a nice KJ page was one of my long term goals as well, but I had no idea prices have increased so much in the past two years. If mediocre pages start at $50K, and better pages are $100K +, I am going to stop looking now.

[comix4fun]

Pages with "not much going on", as in no one in costume (Joker, Batman or Red Hood - yes, I consider the Red Hood the third important character here); most of these are flashback pages before he is in Red Hood costume: 35-50K

 

 

 

 

I reread the book this weekend to see if I saw what you saw on the Red Hood pages. Actually, the pages with the Joker, before he wore the hood or became the joker seem incredibly important the character development, even more so than the Hood pages. The flashback pages are the first time we've ever been able to humanize the Joker. That's pretty important to the story.

 

There are some great Hood pages, for sure, but what I like most about them are the elements of Batman on them and the dynamic posing. I honestly didn't remember them as Hood pages as much as Batman pages.

 

The Hood and flash-back pre-Joker pages are a distant third behind the Joker and Batman pages though. That being said, there isn't a bad page in the book.

[heartened]

Pages with "not much going on", as in no one in costume (Joker, Batman or Red Hood - yes, I consider the Red Hood the third important character here); most of these are flashback pages before he is in Red Hood costume: 35-50K

 

 

 

 

I reread the book this weekend to see if I saw what you saw on the Red Hood pages. Actually, the pages with the Joker, before he wore the hood or became the joker seem incredibly important the character development, even more so than the Hood pages. The flashback pages are the first time we've ever been able to humanize the Joker. That's pretty important to the story.

 

There are some great Hood pages, for sure, but what I like most about them are the elements of Batman on them and the dynamic posing. I honestly didn't remember them as Hood pages as much as Batman pages.

 

The Hood and flash-back pre-Joker pages are a distant third behind the Joker and Batman pages though. That being said, there isn't a bad page in the book.

 

This is fair. I consider the Hood pages part of the Joker origin. To be clear, there are only 3 Hood pages leading up to the famous Joker maniacal laughter half splash, so we're not talking about many pages. One of them has the Batman on it in action. I consider these pages somewhat better than the rest of the flashback pages pre-Hood, pre-Joker. But, that's just me. Agree that every single page has something special, and that's why the starting price point is so high.

 

[comix4fun]

Pages with "not much going on", as in no one in costume (Joker, Batman or Red Hood - yes, I consider the Red Hood the third important character here); most of these are flashback pages before he is in Red Hood costume: 35-50K

 

 

 

 

I reread the book this weekend to see if I saw what you saw on the Red Hood pages. Actually, the pages with the Joker, before he wore the hood or became the joker seem incredibly important the character development, even more so than the Hood pages. The flashback pages are the first time we've ever been able to humanize the Joker. That's pretty important to the story.

 

There are some great Hood pages, for sure, but what I like most about them are the elements of Batman on them and the dynamic posing. I honestly didn't remember them as Hood pages as much as Batman pages.

 

The Hood and flash-back pre-Joker pages are a distant third behind the Joker and Batman pages though. That being said, there isn't a bad page in the book.

 

This is fair. I consider the Hood pages part of the Joker origin. To be clear, there are only 3 Hood pages leading up to the famous Joker maniacal laughter half splash, so we're not talking about many pages. One of them has the Batman on it in action. I consider these pages somewhat better than the rest of the flashback pages pre-Hood, pre-Joker. But, that's just me. Agree that every single page has something special, and that's why the starting price point is so high.

 

 

That's your page with Batman on it, I remember now. Those are spectacular panels.

 

The page that sold at Heritage from 2012, for $19k, was a heartbreaking page. So much emotion in that one. I can see why people didn't value it like the later battle pages and action pages, but the story telling on that page is really transcendent.

[heartened]

Pages with "not much going on", as in no one in costume (Joker, Batman or Red Hood - yes, I consider the Red Hood the third important character here); most of these are flashback pages before he is in Red Hood costume: 35-50K

 

 

 

 

I reread the book this weekend to see if I saw what you saw on the Red Hood pages. Actually, the pages with the Joker, before he wore the hood or became the joker seem incredibly important the character development, even more so than the Hood pages. The flashback pages are the first time we've ever been able to humanize the Joker. That's pretty important to the story.

 

There are some great Hood pages, for sure, but what I like most about them are the elements of Batman on them and the dynamic posing. I honestly didn't remember them as Hood pages as much as Batman pages.

 

The Hood and flash-back pre-Joker pages are a distant third behind the Joker and Batman pages though. That being said, there isn't a bad page in the book.

 

This is fair. I consider the Hood pages part of the Joker origin. To be clear, there are only 3 Hood pages leading up to the famous Joker maniacal laughter half splash, so we're not talking about many pages. One of them has the Batman on it in action. I consider these pages somewhat better than the rest of the flashback pages pre-Hood, pre-Joker. But, that's just me. Agree that every single page has something special, and that's why the starting price point is so high.

 

 

That's your page with Batman on it, I remember now. Those are spectacular panels.

 

The page that sold at Heritage from 2012, for $19k, was a heartbreaking page. So much emotion in that one. I can see why people didn't value it like the later battle pages and action pages, but the story telling on that page is really transcendent.

 

Totally agree. In retrospect a steal at just under 20K. Yes, the Hood page I have is as much a Batman in action page as it is a Hood page, but I also like the two leading up to it (although no Bats). In the end, this is all subjective, just offering my opinion of all of it.

 

[Koa]

I remember seeing a pair of killing joke pages online priced at 4 or 6k in 2001.

[comix4fun]

I remember seeing a pair of killing joke pages online priced at 4 or 6k in 2001.

 

If I only I knew then what I know now

 

Any prime Ditko ASM page I wanted for $5k.

 

Killing Joke pages for $5k

 

Prime Kirby pages for $5k

 

Romita ASM covers for $10k.

 

 

[vodou]

Romita ASM covers for $10k.

Very distinctly remember when Conrad had this at $5k...for several shows in a row.

Probably 1999-2001? Surely $4500 cash on the table would have taken it away.

Kept thinking, "maybe I should help him get out from under that?"

Guess what? Somebody did but it wasn't me.

[tth2]

I remember seeing a pair of killing joke pages online priced at 4 or 6k in 2001.

 

If I only I knew then what I know now

 

Any prime Ditko ASM page I wanted for $5k.

 

Killing Joke pages for $5k

 

Prime Kirby pages for $5k

 

Romita ASM covers for $10k.

 

The history of this hobby and the comic hobby in general is that no matter how expensive something appears at any given moment in time, one should pay whatever it takes to get the piece/book that one wants at that time, because in the vast majority of cases it won't get cheaper over time.

 

This does not apply to overpayments for common comics where the purchaser badly underestimated the supply component of the valuation formula.

[stinkininkin]

I remember seeing a pair of killing joke pages online priced at 4 or 6k in 2001.

 

If I only I knew then what I know now

 

Any prime Ditko ASM page I wanted for $5k.

 

Killing Joke pages for $5k

 

Prime Kirby pages for $5k

 

Romita ASM covers for $10k.

 

 

Don't get me started...

 

Scott

[DocR]

I remember seeing a pair of killing joke pages online priced at 4 or 6k in 2001.

 

If I only I knew then what I know now

 

Any prime Ditko ASM page I wanted for $5k.

 

Killing Joke pages for $5k

 

Prime Kirby pages for $5k

 

Romita ASM covers for $10k.

 

 

Don't get me started...

 

Scott

 

Now I'm depressed